Conquer Club

I am a very different person than I was 10 years ago. In what objective sense am I still the same person as that guy?
I remember only a tiny portion of my experiences, and they likely aren't completely accurate either. Most of my cells have changed since then not to mention interests, abilities and what not. Hell I don't even look that much like the guy.

As you get older the changes slow down obviously, hence the 10/20/30 years thing, however the general point stands.

It seems to me that "death", or perhaps non-existance, happens relatively often to us, not just the one time. I mean, if I'm not still the dude I was 10 years ago, than that dude must have transitioned from existance to non-existance at some point, aka he died.


And yeah, this is the shit I think about when I'm drunk.

lol.
As you get older, you will remember things that happened when you were 10 better than things that happened yesterday.

Barring some huge life-altering trauma experience - I would suggest that most of us still retain parts of ourselves from our past. Aspects of our personality are hard to erase, though your interests, abilities & what-not may have changed, did they ever really ever really express you? or were they externalities we're forced to cling to in our post-modern world to form a persona for ourself? Things like your nature are far harder to over-ride and far more representative of you then things that may come & go throughout a life-time.

my 0.02

PLAYER57832 wrote:lol.
As you get older, you will remember things that happened when you were 10 better than things that happened yesterday.

correct

10 years ago I was 10 years old. Sadly enough, not much has changed.

20 years ago I was barely alive, so yes, everything has changed.

30 years ago, I think most of my current matter was probably poop.

Army of GOD wrote:30 years ago, I think most of my current matter was probably poop.

So things are pretty much the same, then?

saxitoxin wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:30 years ago, I think most of my current matter was probably poop.

So things are pretty much the same, then?

ZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGG

Is that supposed to be an insult? Are you poopist (do you discriminate against poop?)?

You're a sick piece of something saxitoxin. You're just as bad as all the racists and homophobes.

on topic: 10 years ago was about the time that i started realizing that most adults largely didn't have a clue what they were talking about, authority usually wasn't given to those who deserved it, and i was largely alone in terms of the way i thought and experienced the world. it was about this time that i stopped genuinely caring about school. i still thought that people were fundamentally good and that i could achieve anything i wanted to (those changed about three years ago), but 10 years ago was when i started forming the basis of my worldview.

if you're asking whether i'm the same person physically... well that's a "ship of theseus" problem. i am the same being in the memories of the people i know. society considers me to be the same person. i retain the skills, memories, and general body structure of my 10 year old self. if there are souls, then i have the same soul. just depends on your definition of "person".

john9blue wrote:if you're asking whether i'm the same person physically... well that's a "ship of theseus" problem. i am the same being in the memories of the people i know. society considers me to be the same person. i retain the skills, memories, and general body structure of my 10 year old self. if there are souls, then i have the same soul. just depends on your definition of "person".

What about pubes?

aog i want you to take a picture of yourself holding a picket sign that says "poop are people too"

THAT'S PERSONAL INFO SAXI

i'm not comfortable talking about that

i need an adult

john9blue wrote:on topic: 10 years ago was about the time that i started realizing that most adults largely didn't have a clue what they were talking about, authority usually wasn't given to those who deserved it, and i was largely alone in terms of the way i thought and experienced the world. it was about this time that i stopped genuinely caring about school. i still thought that people were fundamentally good and that i could achieve anything i wanted to (those changed about three years ago), but 10 years ago was when i started forming the basis of my worldview.

if you're asking whether i'm the same person physically... well that's a "ship of theseus" problem. i am the same being in the memories of the people i know. society considers me to be the same person. i retain the skills, memories, and general body structure of my 10 year old self. if there are souls, then i have the same soul. just depends on your definition of "person".

You sound like Dr. Evil. "My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15 year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims, like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy; the sort of general malaise only the genius posses and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, Luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard, really. When I was 12 I received my first scribe. When I was 14 a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum - it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it."

Yes, I do happen to have that memorized.

InkL0sed wrote:

john9blue wrote:on topic: 10 years ago was about the time that i started realizing that most adults largely didn't have a clue what they were talking about, authority usually wasn't given to those who deserved it, and i was largely alone in terms of the way i thought and experienced the world. it was about this time that i stopped genuinely caring about school. i still thought that people were fundamentally good and that i could achieve anything i wanted to (those changed about three years ago), but 10 years ago was when i started forming the basis of my worldview.

if you're asking whether i'm the same person physically... well that's a "ship of theseus" problem. i am the same being in the memories of the people i know. society considers me to be the same person. i retain the skills, memories, and general body structure of my 10 year old self. if there are souls, then i have the same soul. just depends on your definition of "person".

You sound like Dr. Evil. "My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a 15 year-old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims, like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy; the sort of general malaise only the genius posses and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, Luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard, really. When I was 12 I received my first scribe. When I was 14 a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum - it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it."

Yes, I do happen to have that memorized.

wat

Goldmember when Dr. Evil talked about his childhood.

I'm actually jealous that I don't have it memorized.

i know where it's from... just... wat

edit: HI DAGIP

LaZCaTo wrote:Barring some huge life-altering trauma experience - I would suggest that most of us still retain parts of ourselves from our past. Aspects of our personality are hard to erase, though your interests, abilities & what-not may have changed, did they ever really ever really express you? or were they externalities we're forced to cling to in our post-modern world to form a persona for ourself? Things like your nature are far harder to over-ride and far more representative of you then things that may come & go throughout a life-time.

my 0.02

Interesting, so what is this abstract "nature" that remains constant then?

And sure, there obviously still are similarities, but then there are plenty similarities between me and other people. If the similarity between me now and me 10 years ago is no bigger than the similarity between me and some other person, than it would seem to me that "past me" is no more.

john9blue wrote: if you're asking whether i'm the same person physically... well that's a "ship of theseus" problem. i am the same being in the memories of the people i know. society considers me to be the same person. i retain the skills, memories, and general body structure of my 10 year old self. if there are souls, then i have the same soul. just depends on your definition of "person".

Well, people and society consider you the same person because that's how we consider life to be, non-existance, existance, non-existance. I'm wondering if that is wrong.

As for skills and memories, really? Hell, only 6 years ago I spent wasted countless hours lerning the minute details of our local geography for what is basically a placement exam.
I knew all of that shit, I can't even name the region capitals now. There's probably plenty other "skills" that I don't have anymore.

Furthermore, I have surprisingly few memories from that period, and they're all pretty blurry. They become clearer if I think about them, but I imagine that is my brain filling in the voids with what probably happened and not the true memories.

And yeah, if you bring in religion into it the distinction is clear, you die when your soul goes to the afterlife/ is reincarnated/ whatever. I'm assuming a secular viewpoint here, cause otherwise there's no discussion.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
As for skills and memories, really? Hell, only 6 years ago I spent wasted countless hours lerning the minute details of our local geography for what is basically a placement exam.
I knew all of that shit, I can't even name the region capitals now. There's probably plenty other "skills" that I don't have anymore.

Actually, you probably remember far more than you think you do. The brain's "storage", so to speak, is far greater than you'll ever need.

For an extreme example, take the Russian journalist called S in scientific literature who had a synesthesia which converted words into images. This allowed him to remember literally everything he ever heard, by unconsciously using the method of the loci. And when I say everything, I mean to the point where a psychologist who tested him for years would ask him to repeat long series of random numbers which the psychologist read aloud just a few moments ago, a few days ago, months, years – and S remembered perfectly every time. He couldn't not remember everything.

Another guy once conducted a very simple experiment on his memory: every day, he wrote something down - just a few sentences - about something memorable that happened that day. He did this for a decade (I think; in any case it was a long time). After he stopped, he went back through each day. Many days he could remember simply by reading the sentences; if he didn't, he did his best to find people or things or places associated with that day, in order to remember it. It turned out that after a while, he could remember something of every day. Just to be clear, this man was not a savante, not abnormal in any way.

The brain actually stores far more than you think it does. The problem is that a memory is only reached through association; the more associations it has with other things in your brain, the more easily it is for you to get to that memory. When you're having one of those "tip of your tongue" moments - when you can't seem to remember a word or name for something, for instance, but you feel that it's "right there" - what's really happening is your brain is having trouble finding a pathway to the right memory. So what do you do? You search for it via associations.

Don't underestimate your memory. You've retained far more of them from 10 years ago than you think.

"feeding the trolls":

Spoiler

I can't believe inklosed memorized that thing. wow, dude. that's so long! But I don't see how any of that relates to what j9b said. I think you just wanted to show off your skillz
I agree with AoG. "From the ashes you arise, and to the dust you shall return." or something along those lines. so maybe we were all poop at one point and maybe we will be again. who knows?

I find that I have changed over the past years. I think differently, have different view points, and have different skills.
Skills: bike tricks, drywalling, appliance repair, writing, programming, etc. really neat.
viewpoints: I have since been less strict with things concerning morals ( or have just been desensatized to them) after I realized the world is full of good poeple who do bad things (and good things too). So it's not that they're evil, they're just sinners, and we all are (though after j9b's comment I wonder if this will change in my future). Possibly my views may change, but I don't know how or when.
Also I think I may much more sure of myself than I was in my previous years. I think spending a lot of time away from teh internet helped tbh.
and it being able to communicate with multi-national people from around the world has helped change my view point as well. I'm not on facebook, and so yeah this is the place where I hang with folks from finland, uk, brazil, etc.
ok, I feel like I may be spilling too many of my secrets, or revealing to much about myself (who knows what "guests" lurk on this site?) and so as a precaution I will shut up now.
But yeah I think I have changed.
-SG7 ( )

considering my mind develops at the rate that robin williams' does in "Jack", then yes.

whitestazn88 wrote:considering my mind develops at the rate that robin williams' does in "Jack", then yes.

I thought his mind stayed the same, but his body grew quicker?

-rd

30 years ago I was a fresh out of Uni go getter. I listened to few, made rash decisions and life was full of huge ups and downs. I was quick to cast blame elsewhere and still had little idea about myself and what exactly I was....but then I didn't spend too much time thinking about such things, after all the future looked pretty much endless.

20 years ago I had started procreating, had realised that with this came the responsibility of lessening the huge ups and downs to more manageable levels so I could take care of those who relied on me. I went through a stage of blaming myself for anything and everything that went wrong and, for the first time, thought about ceasing to exist.

10 years ago I was pissed off with those who relied upon me all the time, had pretty much got rid of the ups and downs all together by entering a period of a steadily downward spiral. I mourned my lost years and realised that life is pretty much an awful experience except for those brief moments when I got to see what beauty the world had to offer.

Now...I am cynical, disbelieving and something of a curmudgeon. I take huge pleasure in my offspring's offspring (which is pretty normal as we both dislike their parents) have secured (relatively) my comfort for whatever years I have left, think of death often (if only in terms of ensuring arrangements are in place in the case of any LID) and am more comfortable in myself than I ever have been previously.

Also, Haggis, Sartre would say that humans are always in a state of flux. Therefore our identities must incorporate the fact that we change.

InkL0sed wrote:Also, Haggis, Sartre would say that humans are always in a state of flux. Therefore our identities must incorporate the fact that we change.

I agree.

As for the op, I am not the same person I was yesterday.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:I am a very different person than I was 10 years ago. In what objective sense am I still the same person as that guy?
I remember only a tiny portion of my experiences, and they likely aren't completely accurate either. Most of my cells have changed since then not to mention interests, abilities and what not. Hell I don't even look that much like the guy.

As you get older the changes slow down obviously, hence the 10/20/30 years thing, however the general point stands.

It seems to me that "death", or perhaps non-existance, happens relatively often to us, not just the one time. I mean, if I'm not still the dude I was 10 years ago, than that dude must have transitioned from existance to non-existance at some point, aka he died.


And yeah, this is the shit I think about when I'm drunk.

Haggis just threw down one of the most interesting posts on CC.


_____________________________________________________________________


For me, I like to borrow from Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Different stages with their respective segments are slowly progressing towards some optimum amount at various rates until each one meets an ideal equilibrium. In other words, my self is experiencing constant growth and change. I'm not "dying" or going through stages A, B, C, D, then E in chronological sequence (as Maslow's hierarchy of needs suggests). Instead, I am constantly evolving into an ideal version of my self, and that ideal version tends to shift as I can look farther over the horizon.


Death is the end of the progress. Death can even occur to the "living," that is, those people who live without really knowing it (like the main character from Ikiru). It's life with no meaning and very little conscious thought or enjoyment--a real-life version of Gil-Scott Heron's Pieces of a Man.

Still alive?
No. Too many differences.

Much more productive, far, far, less violent.
More respect for others, and the "law" (Well, what I feel is "right" vs "unjust" anyway...)
Less compromising of my core values and morality.

Much happier, content, and wealthier.
But that's more of a love thing than a money thing.


JRock