Conquer Club

Do you go the traditional route, tell them all the stories and wait till they figure out it's fake from external sources?
If so, at what age do you confirm the story's fake if they inquire?

Perhaps you should tell them about Santa, but once they're old enough reveal by your own initiative that it's fake?

I think this is an interesting issue. On one hand it can be used to try to instil a deeper level of trust and mutual respect between you and the kid, if you come clean of your own accord(or don't tell the story at all). i.e. something like, "all the parents tell this story to their kids to make them feel happy, but I'm telling you the truth, because I never want there to be lies between us" sort of thing.

On the other hand, I think figuring out Santa is fake through external means may be an important step in a kid's journey to independence and rationality. I know I never looked at the world the same when I realised how sure I had been of the truth of such an utterly ridiculous proposition. (I was one of those kids who was arguing that Santa was real when most others had stopped believing). Also, it taught me that you can never trust anyone 100% of the time. Even if they love you unconditionally, you can only trust them to do what they consider is best which is not necessarily what you consider best.

First of all, I don't have any children (that I know of). But I always thought the same as you with the whole trust issue. But even worse than that, if you are actually a Christian, why have this made up story of what Christmas is about. It distorts the meaning of Christmas. Is it a coincidence that santa is an anagram(is that the right word) for satan? Why not just go with the real story of Christmas, and exchange gifts in the tradition of the 3 wise men bearing gifts for the new born king? Why do we need to trick kids with a different story to make it seem magical. Is it to bribe them into behaving so they are worthy of receiving gifts?
I guess since I don't have children it is difficult to say for sure what I would do, but at this time, I'm not a big fan of Santa. Or the commercialization of Christmas.

I intend on letting my children (if I have any) know the truth before anyone can tell them otherwise.

My kids understand that Santa reads their thoughts and sees everything they do from his magic house in the north pole. If they follow our rules, he rewards them. But if their thoughts are bad, or if they break any of the rules we make up, he will punish them. As a parent, I have found this to be an exemplary method of controlling my children.

The Santa Clause is for kids to enjoy and I consider it a holiday myth, not a fake.
It is what it is --a cultural thing-- and I let it ride until the kids were older.

I think you can tell them anything you like. They will come up with ideas based in part on what you tell them and what they pick up from everywhere else.

I told my daughter the truth when she was two. I did not make a fuss about it but I explained honestly that it was a legend people tell children. It is partially based on a couple of people that may have actually existed but your family, friends, mom, and dad would be the ones buying you presents.

By the time it was Christmas when she was three, most likely because of my mother in law she believed in Santa clause and started telling me about it, I questioned her but left it alone and did not dispute it. She is 9 now and believes in him asking questions like, "How does he get in to houses with no chimney?" I don't know, must use the door, your mom probably leaves it opened for him.

Conversely a couple of her friends at school whose parents went all out to make their kids believe are having troubles getting them to continue to do so.

With our son I didn't say anything because I'm not nasty enough to ruin it for my mother in law. I drop hints and scoff but none of them seem to catch on. Soon I will need to tell our daughter not to ruin it for her brother or maybe the other way around.

Their imagination is pretty powerful and I have been surprised at many things they pick up from out side sources. I have been very pro active in monitoring Television and pre-viewing movies on DVD or Netflix before they watch.

School is a big source of all the good stuff, by grade four she know lots of the cool swear words and the other day while they were bickering I had an opportunity to explain, "You don't even know what "Gay" means yet and it is not acceptable to use that term for name calling. Soon we need to talk about things like that and if you have any questions about "Gay" you need to ask me,"
Her response of course, "What if I mean 'happy and gay' is that OK?" Yes, but you didn't mean that. "Yeah. I'm sorry."

One funny thing that has happened because of them not knowing different, if someone says something like stupid or jerk they both think that is a "bad word" and will make a fuss. "Mommy said a bad word."

I've heard some people say it does harm to children for them to believe in Santa when such beliefs are encouraged by parents.

I know this is not scientific evidence, but I know a whole lot of children who believed in Santa and were encouraged by their parents to believe in Santa, and I haven't seen any evidence of irreparable damage (or any damage at all).

So, I'm not sure it's that big an issue (at least to me).

That being said, I have this weird recurring wish to destroy my parents for lying to me when I was younger about the Easter Bunny. The psychological harm done to me has affected my day-to-day life in ways that others cannot fathom.

I'll settle for the heavycola and TGD stance.

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Heavycola's Santa provides good incentives for improving his kids' behavior, and it likely solves the principal-agent problem.

TGD is something I'd say to the "break down trust" argument.



Then again, I have no kids, but I still have an urge to tell my future kids, "Hey it's all bullshit! I'll just give you presents at the end of the year if you behave well."

Of course, (1) kids tend to have high time preference, and (2) I can't solve the principal-agent problem (i.e. Santa sees all, so you best behave). Therefore, I'd most likely settle with Santa, or... I could just give them an weekly allowance based on their behavior, which might solve (1), but still wouldn't solve (2).

I didn't have an Easter Bunny when I was a kid, my parents told us that our dog became the Easter Sheltie and hid eggs all over the place. We thought it was hilarious but I don't remember ever actually believing them.

Also, they always presented Santa as being a story everyone told at Christmas and, yeah, sure, wink wink, nudge nudge, he's real. But then they'd make all kinds of jokes with presents, like when I was really young, I was super into The Karate Kid, so when they got me a bandana like Danielsan had, the little card said it was from Mr. Miyagi. Or when I got a Decepticon, they said it was from Megatron to help destroy the Autobot menace in our galaxy.

So Santa was about as real as all of that.

Ah yes, the Easter Bunny. The commercialization of Easter, using Pagan symbolism. It just seems so wrong to me. And bunnies don't lay eggs. Maybe the Easter bunny should start visiting on the first day of spring. We don't have to do away with the tradition altogether. It just makes more sense to have a Spring bunny than an Easter bunny. It's more in line with the Pagan tradition. And Easter is a Holy day. Easter is what makes a Christian a Christian. And we celebrate it like Pagans!

My parents didn't celebrate christmas, didn't buy me chrstmas presents(ever), and pretty much told me fom the getgo that santa was bullshit. And look how I turned out?! Granted, the enormous stack of bullshit they did tell me makes this one truth insignicant.

Tell your kids the truth people.

By playing the santa game you're implicitly letting your kid think that lying is ok. That it is ok to manipulate people. You're a parent, you're supposed to be setting an example, teaching your kids right from wong, and on and on and fucking on.

I don't remember ever really believing in Santa, but I do remember the day I confronted my father about it.

Me: "Hey Dad, Santa isn't real, right?"
Dad: "Let me put it this way: Santa doesn't bring presents to kids who don't believe in him."

I also remember one particular Easter, when I was in the process of trying to save up for something "big" (don't remember what), I asked if the Easter Bunny could bring money instead of candy. When my sister and I went searching the house on Sunday morning, everywhere there was a stash of eggs, there were also a few quarters.

My parents never goded me into believing in Santa or the Easter bunny, they tuaght me the real story in line with Christian tradition. They still told me the stories about Santa and EB and what not, and the real truth behind who Saint Nick actually was and how legend transformed him into a powerful figure with flying reindeer and elf helpers. We still like to talk about Santa and sometimes we play pranks by giving presents "from Santa", "from Snoopy's mom", "from Rainbow Dash", etc., etc.
Santa's a nice tale but taken literally it can be harmful... what do I know? I have no idea how true that last statement was.
But yeah it's a funny story and shouldn't be excluded altogether because it does make kids imagine things, and imagination is a key part of being a kid.

And yes bunnies lay eggs. In the pokemon universe.

Merry Christmas!

-SG7 ( )

thegreekdog wrote:I've heard some people say it does harm to children for them to believe in Santa when such beliefs are encouraged by parents.

I know this is not scientific evidence, but I know a whole lot of children who believed in Santa and were encouraged by their parents to believe in Santa, and I haven't seen any evidence of irreparable damage (or any damage at all).

So, I'm not sure it's that big an issue (at least to me).

That being said, I have this weird recurring wish to destroy my parents for lying to me when I was younger about the Easter Bunny. The psychological harm done to me has affected my day-to-day life in ways that others cannot fathom.

-TG

I don't see the harm in letting kids have fun with their holidays, but then again I'm not Christian. I look at Christmas and Easter as "Excuse to Have a Good Time with the Family Day" winter and spring edition.

I was one of the last kids in our school to believe in Father Christmas, and fully intend to let any children I might have enjoy that belief too. Sure, they'll find out eventually - but I'd certainly hope that they'd realise how much fun it was believing in it, and also that they'd learn about what beliefs are from that experience. I'll make it as hard as possible for them to work it out, although when they do, if it was necessary then they'd get an explanation. I didn't need one, though.

I'd hope that in later life it'd teach them that, just because someone believes something, that' doesn't mean that it's correct. But that they should respect other's beliefs, because people's beliefs (even 'false' ones) often make them happy, and there's nothing wrong with being happy.

Gawd, I believed in fairies - thanks to my parents' making them seem real to me - until I was about 8 or 9. Hasn't done me any harm, and I'll be forever grateful to them that they gave me those years. Best gift they could've ever given me - my imagination!

Does nobody believe in Aslan any more?

This is what I told my 3 year old daughter Lucy a couple of weeks back...

When Mummy and Daddy have a special kiss, one of three things happens. One, you get a new brother or sister. two, father Christmas comes. Three, If everything goes to plan, nothing happens!

The reason Father Christmas only comes once a year is because Mummy and Daddy don't get enough time for special kisses because you are always wanting to take up our time with stupid shit like going to the park or playing with toys.

If you went to the park a bit more on your own so that Mummy and Daddy had more time for special kisses, maybe father Christmas might come more often.

Now do Daddy a favour and go wait at the bus stop for a 97 or 158 bus. Take your teddy bear and play in the park you selfish, self centred little shit!

She went to the bus stop on Friday and she's still not come back. (She must be having a hell of a lot of fun!) I know I am

I think it is harmless and it is fun. I think it's fun for kids and parents. I remember it being fun for me when I believed. In the middle-years... after I stopped believing and before i had any young nephews/nieces (or my kids) who did believe... Christmas was a lot less fun.

Yeah... if I was more religious I might be annoyed at how Christmas is losing its religious origins. I'm not though.. so that don't bug me.

The commercialization bugs me a little.

One reason to continue the myth... societal expectations. Do you want your kid to be ostracized at school cause he/she doesn't believe? Do you want to NOT get invited to social gatherings because your kid is gonna tell the other kids "there's no such thing" as Santa? It could happen.

Yeah you and your kid should both be "strong" enough to overcome some of this small shit... but why add the stress? Why risk it?

My eldest daughter is 7. When she asks me for real to tell her the truth I will. My 4yo asked me this year... "Daddy is Santa Clause real?"... my response "What do you think?"

She decided he was real... "Cause who would bring the presents?"

I think my 4yo is more advanced than my 7yo when it comes to common sense.

Of course... my 4yo also asks me "Daddy are XXX real?" Where "XXX" could be pretty much anything... sharks, snakes, bad people, dragons, fairies, pretty much any animal she's not seen in person, etc.

We all teach our kids not to lie right? Well, why do we lie to them? On the flip side, I think it is okay to tell them the real story about Santa Claus. I stopped believing when I was like 7 years old, because that Christmas morning when I looked down on the roofs of all the houses - we lived in an apartment then - to see if I could see reindeer and sleigh tracks, I was disappointed I didn't see any and therefore proclaimed that Santa Claus was not real. Of course I got in trouble for that because I said in front of my sister.

I think that the best option in regards to Santa Claus is to tell them that Santa Claus can exist in that he embodies the spirit of giving at Christmas. As for the "jolly old elf," leave it up to the child to choose if s/he wants to believe (as long as you have told them that "santa" doesn't necessarily exist as a man residing in the north pole... But even grandparents could be "santa"). If it's left to the child, then there have been no lies told, and the child is free to live in the fantastical world with that imaginary playmate that s/he has, anyway (until the child chooses to believe otherwise due to evidence or examination).

pearljamrox2 wrote:Is it a coincidence that santa is an anagram(is that the right word) for satan?

Yes.

MeDeFe wrote:

pearljamrox2 wrote:Is it a coincidence that santa is an anagram(is that the right word) for satan?

Yes.

Ah, but which question are you answering MeDeFe - the question or the paranthetical question?

ye(yes)s?
n(yes)o?
ye(no)s?