Peloponnesian War [Done]

[ZeakCytho]

Not much to say qwert, except that this is still looking good. Gameplay and graphics both seem very solid to me. Good job

[Qwert]

by ZeakCytho » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:06 am

Not much to say qwert, except that this is still looking good. Gameplay and graphics both seem very solid to me. Good job

Thanks

[Qwert]

Two days without any post -its these mean:
1.That Mrbeen is right and that these map dont have support
2.That people is like how map look,and dont have any thing to add

[ZeakCytho]

Two days without any post -its these mean:
1.That Mrbeen is right and that these map dont have support
2.That people is like how map look,and dont have any thing to add

My personal feeling is number 2 - this map could be quenched as is.

Though, as I said before, I'd prefer the sea without the texture on it. But that hurt gimil's eyes, so we can keep the texture

[Incandenza]

One small thing, and I know this sounds like a graphics quibble, but I feel like it'll impact gameplay (especially people's understanding of the map)...

There are a few terits (notable euboeans and thracian asti) that are separated from other terits that they can't attack by a very very narrow body of water. I see two potential solutions: 1. increase the distant slightly between non-connecting terits separated by water, or find a bit or room in the legend for something like "Territories can only attack across water via white dotted line" or even better "Territories can only attack across water via [dot] [dot] [dot]", where the [dot]s are actual visual representations of the white dotted line. If I'm alone on this one, okay, but I think you'd be doing yourself a favor.

Okay, one other small thing: I still think a better solution can be found to the current inset map and the weird little boats that indicate it, but I'm stumped as to how that might be accomplished, so I'm willing to punt and let you and gimil thrash it out.

And just so everyone knows, I'm just about ready to stamp this map for gameplay, so if anyone holds dissenting views, do please speak now. MrBenn, I kinda see your point about balancing objective with traditional gameplay, but I'm at a point where I don't think it can be done without a pretty radical revamp of the gameplay. If you have some suggestions, I'm all ears.

[Qwert]

by Incandenza » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:52 am

1.One small thing, and I know this sounds like a graphics quibble, but I feel like it'll impact gameplay (especially people's understanding of the map)...
There are a few terits (notable euboeans and thracian asti) that are separated from other terits that they can't attack by a very very narrow body of water. I see two potential solutions: 1. increase the distant slightly between non-connecting terits separated by water, or find a bit or room in the legend for something like "Territories can only attack across water via white dotted line" or even better "Territories can only attack across water via [dot] [dot] [dot]", where the [dot]s are actual visual representations of the white dotted line. If I'm alone on this one, okay, but I think you'd be doing yourself a favor.

2.Okay, one other small thing: I still think a better solution can be found to the current inset map and the weird little boats that indicate it, but I'm stumped as to how that might be accomplished, so I'm willing to punt and let you and gimil thrash it out.

3.And just so everyone knows, I'm just about ready to stamp this map for gameplay, so if anyone holds dissenting views, do please speak now. MrBenn, I kinda see your point about balancing objective with traditional gameplay, but I'm at a point where I don't think it can be done without a pretty radical revamp of the gameplay. If you have some suggestions, I'm all ears.

1.I realy can not understand how anyone can try to attack Boeotians from Euboeans,or to attack Troadians from Tracian Asti,there is not any logical or normal reason how any can make these mistake,first on your map you dont have any marks who will give you these idea,second(if people realy want to attack these territory)he will newer find these in Xml,because these is not exist.
Ofcourse some styborn people will say"i dont see any connection,but i want to attack-how can i do that?".You are first who think that people can make some mistake, i think that these is not possible,because these is realy not possible.
I think that its no need for these options,because every people who posted here is not stupid,and that have good IQ to realised that you can not attack,if you dont have any connections,who is very very visible.You have many confusing maps who dont have any explanations,and still people play. I dont understand why its need to create issue,where is no issue exist.Ofcourse if more people post and say that dont know what can attack from where,then i will reconsider who is option(from yours 2)better to people more understand "Issue".

2.You are free to find "better solution",like i say to Gimil and MrBenn. If you can find something what you like,i will take and put on map.Im good with that,but im dont have nothing against,if you Gimil or Mrbeen have something what is better. Just send me,and these will bee in map.

3.Its good to hear that

[Incandenza]

1. fair enough, but promise me this: if people end up having an issue with euboeans when the map goes live (or even if more than a couple intelligent people pop into the thread and express puzzlement), you'll put something in the legend.
2. Like I said, I'm not sure what would be better. I thought the whole box thing could work, I feel like I couldn't find a good enough example to show you the potential. But seriously, if you drew a like 30% opaque box over the C and M terits on the main map and maybe had the word "inset" worked into the box somehow, you wouldn't have to use those kinda ugly-looking boat-type indicators.
3. You'll be my first stampin', so I want to make sure I get it right.

[Qwert]

2. Like I said, I'm not sure what would be better. I thought the whole box thing could work, I feel like I couldn't find a good enough example to show you the potential. But seriously, if you drew a like 30% opaque box over the C and M terits on the main map and maybe had the word "inset" worked into the box somehow, you wouldn't have to use those kinda ugly-looking boat-type indicators.

Incadenza,i want to understand what is wrong,but i need visual examples, because i dont know what you like-Gimil and Mrbeen have graphic skills, and he can show me what will be best.

[Qwert]

by Incandenza » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:45 am

1. fair enough, but promise me this: if people end up having an issue with euboeans when the map goes live (or even if more than a couple intelligent people pop into the thread and express puzzlement), you'll put something in the legend.

Ok,no problem i promise

[gimil]

2. Like I said, I'm not sure what would be better. I thought the whole box thing could work, I feel like I couldn't find a good enough example to show you the potential. But seriously, if you drew a like 30% opaque box over the C and M terits on the main map and maybe had the word "inset" worked into the box somehow, you wouldn't have to use those kinda ugly-looking boat-type indicators.

Incadenza,i want to understand what is wrong,but i need visual examples, because i dont know what you like-Gimil and Mrbeen have graphic skills, and he can show me what will be best.

I don't know what you mean either inc!

[ZeakCytho]

I think Incandenza means something like this, but with a better drawn box and font.

Click image to enlarge.

[Incandenza]

Yes! That's exactly what I'm talking about, but, you know, better lookin'. Thanks, zeak.

[Qwert]

If you want to put these on map,i will put. Im not want to arguing,because these is only prolonging time spend in Map foundry.
Zeak send me all details abouth these gray area(colour,opacity).
Im not happy with that,but if people like,then i will put.

[Incandenza]

If you want to put these on map,i will put. Im not want to arguing,because these is only prolonging time spend in Map foundry.
Zeak send me all details abouth these gray area(colour,opacity).
Im not happy with that,but if people like,then i will put.

I'm not saying it should be exactly what zeak did, but something along those lines would be, I think, a much cleaner and more effective signpost for the inset than your previous attempts.

[ZeakCytho]

I agree with Incandenza about having a box around it. I think my box looks awful, but if you want the specs, it's just a black rectangle with 30% opacity. I'm sure you could find a way to make it look better, though.

[Qwert]

I'm not saying it should be exactly what zeak did, but something along those lines would be, I think, a much cleaner and more effective signpost for the inset than your previous attempts.

Make your mind.
I tell before that i will put everything what you give me,and now you dont want to put these
What is wrong with these?
If you say that these is good,then i dont see problem to put.
Its most confusing now,when i dont want to put something,then we arguing,now when i want to put what you sugested,again not good.

[gimil]

I'm not saying it should be exactly what zeak did, but something along those lines would be, I think, a much cleaner and more effective signpost for the inset than your previous attempts.

Make your mind.
I tell before that i will put everything what you give me,and now you dont want to put these
What is wrong with these?
If you say that these is good,then i dont see problem to put.
Its most confusing now,when i dont want to put something,then we arguing,now when i want to put what you sugested,again not good.

I think he is saying go with something along the lines of what zeak done. What he showed you is a good idea, but it will need to be done better.

[Qwert]

I think he is saying go with something along the lines of what zeak done. What he showed you is a good idea, but it will need to be done better.

I dont understand,everybody think that these can be better,but when i say"give me something",then nobody want to do these(except Zeak,who realy want to show something).
Everybody can take picture(like Zeak done)and to create something what i can put on map, Gimil you are also Map maker,give me something what you think is best for these inset.

[gimil]

I think he is saying go with something along the lines of what zeak done. What he showed you is a good idea, but it will need to be done better.

I dont understand,everybody think that these can be better,but when i say"give me something",then nobody want to do these(except Zeak,who realy want to show something).
Everybody can take picture(like Zeak done)and to create something what i can put on map, Gimil you are also Map maker,give me something what you think is best for these inset.

Qwert zeak meraly gave an example of what inc was talking about. We now understand what inc was talking about. Now take zeaks idea and recreate it in a way that fits the theme and look of your map.

What zeak gave was an example of the direction you should be going in, but what zeak has done is not good enough to fit with your map. You have a sulution there, now take it and make it fit your map.

[Qwert]

Qwert zeak meraly gave an example of what inc was talking about. We now understand what inc was talking about. Now take zeaks idea and recreate it in a way that fits the theme and look of your map.

What zeak gave was an example of the direction you should be going in, but what zeak has done is not good enough to fit with your map. You have a sulution there, now take it and make it fit your map.

I dont know what fit with these theme,mine idea is arrows,not these black thing,that why i dont know what to put. If somebody want to create right thing what fit,i will be happy to put,if nobody want to create these then i will try to create new arrow style.

[the.killing.44]

Arrow? Like all the way across the map? Even a symbol that leads you to the key would be better. And to answer your question: once Zeak outlined what Inc wanted, there wasn't much point in doing the same thing again, is there? Anyway, I like Inc/Zeak
s idea, but maybe 20-25% opacity.

.44

[MrBenn]

Qwert zeak meraly gave an example of what inc was talking about. We now understand what inc was talking about. Now take zeaks idea and recreate it in a way that fits the theme and look of your map.

What zeak gave was an example of the direction you should be going in, but what zeak has done is not good enough to fit with your map. You have a sulution there, now take it and make it fit your map.

I dont know what fit with these theme,mine idea is arrows,not these black thing,that why i dont know what to put. If somebody want to create right thing what fit,i will be happy to put,if nobody want to create these then i will try to create new arrow style.

Qwert, people are only trying to help you, and continue to give you suggestions/ideas for how things could be made to work. I get really frustrated by your attitude that comes across as "I will only do something if somebody can show me exactly how to do it"
I think the inset could work if it looked something like this - which is a slightly more defined version of what Inc/Zeak were getting at:


Please bear in mind that this example is not from a map of the Peloponnesian Peninsular, and that the colour scheme it uses is very different from that used in your map. I have no idea how it was made, but I think that is the kind of look that might work. There is of course the possibility that it won't work in the same way we imagine, but until it has been tried we just won't know.

On a gameplay point of view, I'll have a more thorough look at the balance of gameplay options over the next few days.

[Qwert]

Qwert, people are only trying to help you, and continue to give you suggestions/ideas for how things could be made to work. I get really frustrated by your attitude that comes across as "I will only do something if somebody can show me exactly how to do it"
I think the inset could work if it looked something like this - which is a slightly more defined version of what Inc/Zeak were getting at:


Please bear in mind that this example is not from a map of the Peloponnesian Peninsular, and that the colour scheme it uses is very different from that used in your map. I have no idea how it was made, but I think that is the kind of look that might work. There is of course the possibility that it won't work in the same way we imagine, but until it has been tried we just won't know.

On a gameplay point of view, I'll have a more thorough look at the balance of gameplay options over the next few days.

Mrbeen,i dont say these"I will only do something if somebody can show me exactly how to do it"-i say "i will put any thing what you give me",you see these is big diference,and so far only Zeak help me,not you or Gimil,and hes idea is no1 to put on map,if you have better option,then please give me.
Im look your sugestion,and im realy dont know how these can put on map-im not profesional map maker,but when you say "I have no idea how it was made, but I think that is the kind of look that might work" ,its look that im a profesional,and that i will create in 1 minute. What only i see its that space where inset jump is empty,and its probably best to create,but mine map dont have empty space where will inset jump, again if you have some options,i will be happy to put.
These second is not fair,you will see gameplay for next few days,we speak abouth gameplay almost one month,and when incadenza want to give me stamp,then you want to see gameplay. Its only prolonging work time on these map. For you its easy to say "i dont know what is good,just change to something diferent"

Qwert, people are only trying to help you

change these to "Qwert,ZEak only trying to help you" not you or Gimil,well im not expecting these from you,after all you newer try to help,in way like zeak try(and these is not first time when he want to present some ideas showing me visualy).
Well i see that you find new way to not give me stamps. First you try to change Graphicaly everything,now you find something new. Well all mine maps need to be in proces for very long period in map foundry,so i need to have patience and to waith.

[the.killing.44]

Qwert, people are only trying to help you

change these to "Qwert,ZEak only trying to help you" …

Look, qwert, after someone gets something right, is there any need to further it? No. So don't say only Zeak is trying to help — just because he demonstrated it doesn't mean that no one else was there trying to get it through.

.44

[Qwert]

new update.
I done mine best to create something similar to Zeak idea(thanks zeak),and also i add one mozaic symbol to be guide where is map inset(just find next same symbol and you can not make any mistake),its a similar system in Imperium romanum(3 diferent colour dots),i dont get any complain abouth these sistem ,and i hope that these will work in same way.
Also i add what Gimil ask-move lemnians closer to hes Army shadows-change Objectives to be objective.
I hope that these good to pass.

Click image to enlarge.