Conquer Club

PLAYER57832 wrote:This ruling does not stem from the Bible

Nobunaga wrote:... I normally avoid the religious argument threads, but I'll chime in here.

... From where do you, Player, draw the connection between abortion and child molestation? The Catholic church turned (/turns) a blind eye to child molestation, so that makes this current incident more henious? I don't follow. The article is making the same false connection.

Nobunaga wrote:. As for bashing the Catholics, feel free, I don't have a problem with that. I'm just trying to follow the connection here.

Nobunaga wrote:. Also, this woman was "too ill to be moved to an operating room", says the article, yet she was healthy enough to undergo abortion procedures? Something here doesn't add up.

GabonX wrote:Still.. You guys have to admit that it takes balls to actually instate a Nazi Pope.
[picture deleted]

I mean seriously, now everybody can say "Nazi Pope" and they're talking about an actual person..

PLAYER57832 wrote: John Paul undid a lot of Roman Catholic harm, but this new guy.. takes the church back to places it never needed to be.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

GabonX wrote:Still.. You guys have to admit that it takes balls to actually instate a Nazi Pope.
[picture deleted]

I mean seriously, now everybody can say "Nazi Pope" and they're talking about an actual person..

A. That has nothing to do with the topic at hand
B. I may not like the guy as a religious leader, but he is hardly a Nazis.
C. It was his Bishop who made this pronouncement. As far as I know, the Pope has not yet made any official statement on this.
D. There is a big difference between saying "I don't believe this is correct religious doctrine". And calling the head of people's church, someone they consider second only to Christ, a Nazis.
That is low even for you, Gabon. Let's not have this thread locked, please.

Timminz wrote:Isn't, "being in Hitler's Youth", the same as, "being a young German man during a certain time period"?

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... I normally avoid the religious argument threads, but I'll chime in here.

... From where do you, Player, draw the connection between abortion and child molestation? The Catholic church turned (/turns) a blind eye to child molestation, so that makes this current incident more henious? I don't follow. The article is making the same false connection.

There are few things more harmful to a child than child molestation. I, and many others would argue that death is preferable to many forms of abuse. Kill and a child remains.. where they are, prior to birth. Molest/harm the child and you drive them from God. Driving children from God, is the greatest crime within Christianity, even without any mitigating circumstances such as saving another's life.

Also add in that it was many, many priests who harmed, many, many individuals. This nun was acting on the advice of a doctor, took the teachings well into account and acted in what she felt was a fully FAITHFUL manner. The Priests, by contrast could not possibly have even considered their actions OK.

Excommunication is the harshest crime the Roman Catholic church can offer. So, they punish the lessor crime with their harshest punishment, while not just ignoring, but many would say all but condoning, the greater crime.

Alone, the two might not be related, but added into a long, long history of one judgement for men, another for women, that priests are always given much more consideration than any nun... and there is most definitely a very real connection.

Nobunaga wrote:. As for bashing the Catholics, feel free, I don't have a problem with that. I'm just trying to follow the connection here.

I don't bash Roman Catholics. I condemn the church on religious grounds. I also understand that such rulings make many practicing Roman Catholics uneasy. (and others accept it) The debate within the church, the debate between Protestants and Roman Catholics (note that "catholic rightly applies to all Christians who follow the cannonized new testament) and the debate between Christianity and non-Christians are all seperate issues and debates.

Nobunaga wrote:. Also, this woman was "too ill to be moved to an operating room", says the article, yet she was healthy enough to undergo abortion procedures? Something here doesn't add up.

Only that you don't know much of emergency medicine. Its not just ER drama that surgery is sometimes performed in the Emergency room.

Remember that a woman's uterus and such has a LOT of blood flow and that movement and shifting can cause major ruptures in some circumstances. I have not seen the records of this case, but I do know enough to know its quite plausible.

Nobunaga wrote:
... The deal about not being able to move her, but being abe to abort a fetus still sounds a bit suspicious. Of course I'm no doctor, but then again neither are you. Abortions are rather invasive, are they not. But hey, what do I know (and I've never watched ER, FYI, nor Gray's Anatomy, Three Rivers, etc... Despise drama).

nesterdude wrote:I'm not even a catholic, but it's clear, through your word choice, caps and argument that you, player, have a sincere problem with the catholic church. My wife is a catholic and we talk often about this stigma, this skewed perspective, so many have toward the catholic church. It's really quite juvenile.
Who are you to be "Disgusted" with the organization? What effect does it have on your day to day? Are you a catholic, former catholic? What does their punitive process for their leaders (nuns or priests) mean to you?
All I'm reading, from you, and the article is a slanted view of an organization blinded by an agenda.

worry about your shit, in short.

nesterdude wrote:I'm not even a catholic, but it's clear, through your word choice, caps and argument that you, player, have a sincere problem with the catholic church. My wife is a catholic and we talk often about this stigma, this skewed perspective, so many have toward the catholic church. It's really quite juvenile.
Who are you to be "Disgusted" with the organization? What effect does it have on your day to day? Are you a catholic, former catholic? What does their punitive process for their leaders (nuns or priests) mean to you?
All I'm reading, from you, and the article is a slanted view of an organization blinded by an agenda.

worry about your shit, in short.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

nesterdude wrote:I'm not even a catholic, but it's clear, through your word choice, caps and argument that you, player, have a sincere problem with the catholic church. My wife is a catholic and we talk often about this stigma, this skewed perspective, so many have toward the catholic church. It's really quite juvenile.
Who are you to be "Disgusted" with the organization? What effect does it have on your day to day? Are you a catholic, former catholic? What does their punitive process for their leaders (nuns or priests) mean to you?
All I'm reading, from you, and the article is a slanted view of an organization blinded by an agenda.

worry about your shit, in short.

Newsflash. I live in a town that is 80% Roman Catholic. The local hospital, the only one within 45 minutes drive, is Roman Catholic. A big portion of my family is Roman Catholic. Thes issues are VERY personal to me. This idiocy is why I was treated absolutely horribly when enduring 3 misscarriages prior to the birth of my son. Because I am rH negative, I had to go in to the hospital each and every time. The nurses could care less, their entire logic was I was getting "postpartum" treatment and had no child.. ergo I had an abortion. I was even reported to the state (statistical counts, not talking law enforcement) as having undergone the sole abortion in the county because my doctor advised me to have one miscarriage (child already dead, absolutely!) removed surgically. And, even today, I STILL hear comments about it. Never mind privacy!

You have EVERY right to believe as you wish, and worhip, teach your children to follow your rules. However, neither you nor the Pope has ANY right to tell me how to live my life or to impact what my children learn, or more correctly do not learn in school. The Roman Catholic church lost its right to pure religious respect when it decided to enter politics and dictate how the rest of us have to live our lives.

So, yes, it very much DOES impact the rest of us, and that is just plain wrong. You don't have to like the Protestant church, Jewish Religion Hindus or any others, but you DO, have an obligation to respect OUR views.

So, in short... YOU KEEP TO YOUR OWN SHIT AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD'S. You have no more right to claim moral superiority than anyone else. Frankly, HISTORY shows the Roman Catholic church has a heck of a lot to answer for. And.. I will continue to call them on it every chance I get.

nesterdude wrote:You know I'm sure you're a very interesting person in life, but your common sense isn't really shining through.
i don't' know how you got to where you are, whether you have means or ability to move, or don't really care to. Frankly, yes they do have a right to effect your life, and will continue to do so. You see when groups of people move to communities, set up churches, or hospitals or schools or other forms of infrastructure, those physical parts of the community will become an extension of the community's belief system. Whether it's religion or love for Obama, or Heaven's Gate Cult, they will run their community with the perspectives and morals they decide on.

nesterdude wrote:You on the other hand, think that you can live there, and expect the whole community to cater to you, instead of going somewhere else where more like minded people surround you.
So I'm sorry for your pain, but well, you should know better.

nesterdude wrote:Everything has a history Player, and your angst toward the church is simply not seeing it for what it is today. I mean it's pretty clear it's a different organization(and to be honest I think they've sold out, but in this morally and socially relative world, they've fallen right in line).

nesterdude wrote:I think it's kind of funny that people are so quick to be ready to burn the church but don't carry the same logic across the board: the kings and queens who murdered and subjugated countless numbers of generations throughout Europe, the imperialism of ancient Rome and Greece throughout the continent, Assyria, Babylonia, etc. How far back to do you go? Who's to blame?

nesterdude wrote:Everything has a history Player, and your angst toward the church is simply not seeing it for what it is today.

Timminz wrote:Does anyone here not live within 100 kilometres of somewhere where there were numerous children abused, over the course of many years, by Catholic leaders in their community?