The comment on QQata being +3 instead or +2 is part valid

I would argue its balanced against Peary which has 1 less terit, 1 less bonus but is in a more isolated position

If we reduce QQata to +2, Peary is the clearly stronger continent.

The bonuses seem higher than say classic risk, but as you ...

The problem with lots and lots of little +1's around is you don'tknow how likely a +2 difference between the first and second player is. I am presuming you get +1 per 4 territories?

I think you have to address this first before tweaking other bonuses and tarritory balance. If not you'll just get ...

Well for some reason, I sense that the bonuses and general structure of the map has been play tested extensively. So no objections. Just clarity. The continents are hard to tell apat just by color on the names.

I wouldn't worry too much about shifting power SE. The other changes you made mean there are alternative mid game strategies to a Sumer victory.

Other than the starts the early game was always balanced. The +2's are balanced.

The middle game can be won by several strategies now:

Dilmun + Wilds ...

MIdlands 'Build-Your-Own' - 4.92%
South 'Build-Your-Own' - 15.29%

Without combining probs... you can still see the problem here.

The neutrals in this case are in cities (which are a pretty substantial bonus if they get upgraded as per earlier feedback to +3/+4), in one of the strongest continents in the game and one blocks access to a challenge. Pretty sure they will be engaged.

But they can be 1,2 or 3. Their effect on ...

the.killing.44 wrote:Wong … are those things really problems? Or are you being sarcastic/facetious …

.44

The yellow snow wasn't a giveaway? Its a great map.

Actually I've been meaning to ask Lack to Run some Data on Maps, when he gets time (won't be for a while).

That said, What sort of data would you all be interested in seeing? What criteria? Timelines? etc?

I'm sorry to hear you've had such an unfortunate experience with the Foundry, Merciless ...

Now lets use the new sheet on the map. I have taken so many personal attacks on this issue, I'd love to see how the bonuses look on the new sheet. Is the starting thing >10% or not?

Nice.

-Note that you aren't doing compounding. The second bonus is identical to the first.

-Rounding of number of tertis is also an approximation.

But it should be close enough for discussion.

This stuff should be used for benchmarking anyway. E.g. the chance is less than or more than an ...

OK, here's the rough guide to bonus probabilities... It helps to think of the map a bit like a pack of cards... the total number of territories on the map represents the size of the deck. The territories a player gets is their hand - the goal is to work out the probabiltity of being dealt a set ...

Wait. ... the bear's back foot... it looks like he's doing a doo doo.

And why is greenland not green?

And the instructions on ice passes are only in English, it should be English subtitles on the original native Greenlandian?

Plus the beat in the native language is too modern for an ancient ...

Just remember its 5.7% on the cities then an additional % for the challenges (unless Humbaba or Bull of Heaven is neutral)

But good to get a genuine sense on what is the standard for starts on gameplay.

If th ur anshan doesn't work - consider this
Alternatively you can:
disconnect emar and ...

I think option 2 is your best best. Just using the in the head stuff - you get a sense that
1v1 and 1v1v1 are the problems.

Option 1 solves 1v1 but not 1v1v1 and they are nearly the same (if as I understand it there are no neutral starts in 1v1v1)

Other than that I have only this other item ...

Agree with the 1 neutral on the challenges but would make it Humbaba - if you make bull of heaven neutral you make Sumer even more defendable.

The start positions would also go along way to making Sumer balanced in 1v1v1. If everyone gets Sumer they have a chance to stop someone getting Sumer.

Can ...

<just noticed the neutral start issues>

You know - adding...

Merciless Wong = Knobface

to my Foe list makes this topic so much more readable... now if people would stop quoting him - then I'd be happy.

C.

Wooh, Yeti u the man. Love the snark.

--------------------------

I actually reported the knobface comment as a flame and got a ...

the.killing.44 wrote:
Merciless Wong wrote:
The issue is not just the cities. Its the Cities and the Challenges. The Cities is a 9% chance of giving someone an edge.
The Challenges, another 9% or so (2/27). So your chance of having no starting bonuses or so is about (1-9%)^2.
So you are talking ...

the.killing.44 wrote:
Merciless Wong wrote:
The issue is not just the cities. Its the Cities and the Challenges. The Cities is a 9% chance of giving someone an edge.
The Challenges, another 9% or so (2/27). So your chance of having no starting bonuses or so is about (1-9%)^2.
So you are talking ...

Here's my working:

2^5 = 32. There are 5 provinces with cities, assuming conquer club will place them all with on player or the other there are
2x2x2x2x2 possibilities.
In 1 of them player 1 has it all
In 1 of them player 2 has it all
In 5 of them player 1 has 4 of the 5 cities
In 5 of them ...

The issue is not just the cities. Its the Cities and the Challenges. The Cities is a 9% chance of giving someone an edge.
The Challenges, another 9% or so (2/27). So your chance of having no starting bonuses or so is about (1-9%)^2.
So you are talking about a 18% chance of either 1 or 2 starting ...

[quote="Incandenza"]Okay, Wong, I have a couple of questions for you:

1. using your methods, what's the chance of a person dropping australia in a classic 1v1?
2. what exactly is your goal here?
quote]

For 2 - see not maps under moderator complaints.

For 1: happy to oblige

Assuming neutral ...

Depends, is the 18% low?
If it is, fine.

Andy can whack on the stamp or order the gameplay guy to do so if gameplay is settled. Guys saying the issue is settled with no logic in their posts shouldn't effect this if its a quality driven process.

Alternatively, if the standard is a forum support ...

The issue is not just the cities. Its the Cities and the Challenges. The Cities is a 9% chance of giving someone an edge.
The Challenges, another 9% or so (2/27). So your chance of having no starting bonuses or so is about (1-9%)^2.
So you are talking about a 18% chance of either 1 or 2 starting ...

I mean if you have several small continents, the odds of someone starting with a bonus increases. Add that to the regional level bonuses and I'm sure this is definitely a start with bonus map.

Look, stop wasting time - this is a foregone process. A map by a moderator will reach beta over any ...