London Underground-Starting New Thread

[WidowMakers]

I am attempting to resurrect the old London Underground map that fluffybunnykins had started over a year ago. Here are the issues that were encountered from a copyright perspective.


Here is the old thread:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1401

And here are the related copyright issues

Here is the official word from Transport for London.

Dear Matt

Thank you for your e-mail.

I am very glad you checked with us before submitting the design. We have
a number of issues with your design, which I detail below:

1. The map is an exact copy of our Tube map and therefore is an
infringement, and as you thought requires our permission, which in this
case we are unable to give.

2. Use of the Underground logo. The red circle and blue bar is the trade
mark and corporate mark of Transport for London, and we do not allow
additions or adaptations to be to it.

3. The words GOING UNDERGROUND is also a trade mark of Transport for
London and is currently used on a children's boardgame and we would not
wish this being used on another game.

Therefore, we have to decline your request for using both the Tube map
and Underground trade mark.

Kind regards

David Ellis
Head of Intellectual Property Development
Transport for London
Windsor House
42-50 Victoria Street
London
SW1H 0TL
Direct: 020 7126 3086

As you can see I needed to make some changes to allow the 88's to fit. The old map (fluffybunnykins map) was only the large version and it would have not worked even if there were not copyright issues.

So I kept the gameplay the same and moved around lines and stations to make sure it would all fit.

SO this looks like the old map in style but is not a copy of the original artist work but maintains gameplay.

WidowMakers Proposal


fluffybunnykins old map
[/quote]

Stuff to do:
1) Contact David Ellis - Copyright issues related to Names, logo, graphics
2) Get approval and finish

Unfortunately #1 is probably going to be really difficult to do. I will keep everyone posted.

WM

[mibi]

why add the entire other thread? you have a fresh start and a fresh thread, lets get the ball rolling from here, instead of wading through pages of year old blatherings.

[cairnswk]

why add the entire other thread? you have a fresh start and a fresh thread, lets get the ball rolling from here, instead of wading through pages of year old blatherings.

Agreed!

[Dancing Mustard]

This project-resurection is full of all manner of win.

Quench this bitch immediately so I can waste manifold hours playing it in a blissful stupor.

Much Love,
DM

[WidowMakers]

OK that is fine with me. I just wanted to get any history related to bonuses and what not. Regardless it seem that this will take quite a while.

With all of my research I have found that the phrase "London Underground" has already come under several lawsuits for copyright infringement. SO I will not be using that name. Plus the shape of the logo might not be that different.

I will bee looking into both of those issues.

My next task is to get a hold of the Head of Intellectual Property Development, David Ellis. I need to know how much different the map needs to look and how any of the names may be involved with copyright issues.

So. Long story short.....this might not be as easy and fast as I thought.

I will keep everyone posted.

[MrBenn]

Could you not just post a link to the original thread (and ask a mod to lock it?)

edit: just noticed you already linked to the old thread.

[fluffybunnykins]

Hi all
I thought I'd try phoning David Ellis at Transport for London again. Living in the same country as him, I'm sure it's be easier & cheaper for me to do that! He seemed much more positive this time and appologised for not having got back to me...
Anyway, he can't find the email I sent his (which gave some background info on this site, including number of members, regular players, active games, countries represented, etc. (which will all be out of date now!) to show the scope of the free advertising this map would give them...) so I'm going to dig around and try and find it to resend. Then I'll follow up with another phone call next week. How does that sound?
Cheers

PS the interchange stations where intended to connect to every line at that stop, but it doesn't have to be so... (it would affect the bonuses, though)

Widowmakers, if you have CorelSraw I could send you the original vector files that I created this with.

I also have an spreadsheet with all the stats in it and the start of the xml, if they would be useful???

[WidowMakers]

Hey Fluffy. I don't want to step on your toes or anything. If you want the map back you can have it. I mean you did all of the upfront work anyway.

-My version was done just to try and get around some of the copyright issues like being a copy (switched colors and track/station locations)
-Plus the "88" army issue needed to be resolved for the small map (which is why some of the tracks and stations needed to move a little).

So if you want to pick it up again, go for it. But if not I can always use you initial work and build off of it to make sure the small map and numbers work.

Let me know. I just did not want to see this cool map lost.

Thanks
WM

P.S. PM me the file if you still have it. Can you save it in illustrator form?

[dominationnation]

No offense but if you ask me its just another rail project, which I never was a fan of. I hate the maps where rather than having borders its connected by lines. It just doesnt look good if you ask me.

[WidowMakers]

No offense but if you ask me its just another rail project, which I never was a fan of. I hate the maps where rather than having borders its connected by lines. It just doesnt look good if you ask me.

I understand what you mean but you could look at it this way too. There are about 80 maps on this site.
2 of them have lines instead of rails (Rail USA and Midkemdil)
What about the people who like lines instead of borders?

Unless there is some reason (from a gameplay perspective or copyright/legal perspective) not to make this map, it will get done. Whether by myself or fluffybunnykins, it will get done.

Again thanks for the input and once this gets back on track I hope you will come in and help make it the best map it can be regardless of the attacking lines aspect.

WM

[dominationnation]

I see what you mean. Never ment to say it shouldnt be done. I say as long as a map isnt horrible it should be made. After all you dont have to play it. I was just expressing my personal opinion.

[Sir. Ricco]

I think it will be a fun map but I don't see it getting real popular, but what do I know. Keep up the work.

[fluffybunnykins]

no probs wm
I just have less spare time now than I did a year ago... but then that's not necessarily a bad thing
I'll PM what I can soon

[LondonBuddy]

I have been wondering about a London Tube Map for ages and i love the idea. Am thrilled that it is being thought about !!

Despite it taking me ages to work out how it worked, i am a huge fan of the USA Rail map and would love to see a london version.

Keep up the good work and hope it comes out soon!!

PS - for what it's worth, i hate the Conquer Man map.... ugh..

[lighteningbrain]

Don;t let this map go to waste!

It's a shame about the copyright holding it up, but I'm sure we can get there with perseverance.

Keep up the good work!

[uhtproductions]

love it/LETS 'AVE IT!

[hulmey]

There are many ways to get around copyright issue's. Pity none of us have a team of lawyers to consult with. The only copyright issue i see is the name of the map! Undergrounds are everywhere in this world!

So you could change the place names slighty, if thats a problem. You could also change the name of the map to something like England City Underground or England Underground or something not similar to London underground.

[hulmey]

Ps....You could copy Pro Evolution's soccer game for example. THey didnt have the rights from FIFA to name certain football teams. So they tried to invent stuff , like Liverpool were Merseyside Reds etc...

On your underground map you could have "bakerstreet" as barkerstreet or "paddington" as waddington

[gimil]

Ps....You could copy Pro Evolution's soccer game for example. THey didnt have the rights from FIFA to name certain football teams. So they tried to invent stuff , like Liverpool were Merseyside Reds etc...

On your underground map you could have "bakerstreet" as barkerstreet or "paddington" as waddington

So far as im aware you cant copyright a place name like street names etc.

The point of copyright is to protect the intelectual proterty of someone. So what is copywritten (in my guess) Is purly the art work.

[shadowsteel9]

Ps....You could copy Pro Evolution's soccer game for example. THey didnt have the rights from FIFA to name certain football teams. So they tried to invent stuff , like Liverpool were Merseyside Reds etc...

On your underground map you could have "bakerstreet" as barkerstreet or "paddington" as waddington

So far as im aware you cant copyright a place name like street names etc.

The point of copyright is to protect the intelectual proterty of someone. So what is copywritten (in my guess) Is purly the art work.

Yes A copyright is only for things, written, drawn, or photographed.

[hulmey]

a name can also be copyrighted!

[sam_levi_11]

not a street name

[hulmey]

well ,we arent talking about street names

[TaCktiX]

Route names are not copyrighted on any public transit I know of. It's rather ridiculous to suppose that they are.

[hulmey]

WEll if thats hte case this map should no problem at all being made