[09-Feb-2008] Database errors

Splash_x · Post by **Splash_x** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:37 pm

does that mean we can't post anymore?

pimphawks70 · Post by **pimphawks70** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:39 pm

Splash_x wrote:does that mean we can't post anymore?

you can still post but the number of posts per page has been cut in half!

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:39 pm

you're posting now, aren't you?

It might have to happen again tomorrow, but hopefully not. Better to lose forums for a few hours than to lose games.

hiitsmestevie1 · Post by **hiitsmestevie1** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:49 pm

wicked wrote:you're posting now, aren't you?
It might have to happen again tomorrow, but hopefully not. Better to lose forums for a few hours than to lose games.

without a doubt...

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:21 pm

As long as it happens when I'm not on conquercub, it's all fine by me

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:00 pm

Almost every time when we have a new update, there is some kind of hickup. How many times lackattack was saying: "I am sorry"?

All those problems can be avoided if proper software management will be in place, which is:

EVERYTHING NEEDS TESTING BEFORE DEPLOYING TO THE LIVE SITE.

How Lack can start an update of the live forums WITHOUT testing it first?

Same thing goes to the failed update of the classic map, or update of the game engine or "accidental" changing the tournament system or many more...

Just do a search on lackattack post with word sorry in it. There are 8 pages of posts! LOL

Also the new maps are coming out untested and many times the map developers asked for the test site.

I don't understand, what is the problem with having actual TEST SERVER? If it is a money, then I will vote for the increasing of the premium fee, but I don't want my games disrupted...

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:05 pm

AndrewB wrote:Almost every time when we have a new update, there is some kind of hickup. How many times lackattack was saying: "I am sorry"?

Yet, all of them have been fixed.......so what's the problem?

AndrewB wrote:How Lack can start an update of the live forums WITHOUT testing it first?

He did test it, you just don't know about it because he didn't do it where you can see it. He tested it, fiddled with it, tested it some more, and then decided it was ready.

AndrewB wrote:Same thing goes to the failed update of the classic map, or update of the game engine or "accidental" changing the tournament system or many more...

He is allowed mistakes just like all the rest of us, as for the Classic map, I believe it is his, and he can change it if he wants to. The new tournament system works just fine, and it only took a day or so to fix when he installed it early on accident.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:11 pm

Please dont take my post as a personal attack on the lack, but as a suggestions, to do the proper testing.

The forum update was not tested. At least wasn't tested properly. Otherwise it would not fail.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:16 pm

The new forum and the switch were tested on the test site, but with a smaller data set. The problem occurred when the switch was applied to the larger data set. Yep, Lack can always test more, we've always told him that. But at what point is it overtesting? You have to find that balance.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:21 pm

You are missing my point guys.

I suggest to have another server to test.

If it is the same server then it has following drawbacks:

1. It is disruptive to the live production version
2. Lack is limited in his testing.

That is why he tested the updates on the smaller dataset. If he would have tested it on the normal size dataset, it would disrupt the real site.

And most importantly:

Lack should not be the only one who tests it

He is a developer, and he just cannot test his own modification. He must deploy it to the test server and someone else needs to test it. In that way, and only in that way you can achieve high quality of the delivered product.

Every developer does mistakes, but you need formal testing in order to catch them.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:23 pm

Meh, if all the sudden you have lots of folks involved in testing everything then word gets out as to the things Lack wants to surprise us with. I'd rather not have that happen personally. It is more fun to have a surprise update then everyone secretly telling everyone.

Don't act like that wouldn't happen either.

AndrewB · Post by **AndrewB** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:33 pm

U certainly don't mean it.

Everyone on this site would rather know what the updates are then to have their games disrupted.

Anyhow, when did u see any suprises? Lack has never done anything beside what was suggested before.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:44 pm

Andrew, I work with writing scripts to work on large datasets IRL. It's impossible to "test" the scripts on the entire data set before they're ready to run, so I work with a smaller test set first. This is a generally accepted and useful method.

Lack has employed testers on some of the bigger updates, whether it's just a small group of staff, or a larger group put together to test speed games. Sure he could do it for everything, but that might be overkill for the simple stuff. Anyway, I agree with you about more testing, but that's ultimately up to Lack.

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:49 pm

Yes, we could always use more testing, but the forum upgrade was certainly not a testable case.

By way of explanation (rather than excuse), the conversion software included in the forum code worked just fine when we ran tests on it with a snapshot of the forum from a couple of weeks ago (about 135,000 users I think). Since that snapshot we have seen a lot of growth and are currently sitting somewhere around 185,000 users (at the time of conversion) which the converter apparently couldn't handle. We had no reason to believe that the extra users would cause a problem and there wasn't much more testing we could do.

Some changes, however, apparently can only be made to the live server (like rebuilding corrupted database tables, this is what has caused certain game logs to go missing) and are automated processes which take up a lot of server resources, which is where our primary problem lies right now.

Most of the errors you have been seeing over the last few days have nothing to do with upgrades or changes but are simply overload errors from too many people using the tables at the same time. We are trying to track down the exact problem to streamline it and at the same time are preparing to add more servers to increase the capacity overall.

I'm sorry (sticking with the general theme) that you have been frustrated, we do our best...but will try to do better in the future

Twill

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:51 pm

AndrewB wrote:U certainly don't mean it.

Everyone on this site would rather know what the updates are then to have their games disrupted.

Anyhow, when did u see any suprises? Lack has never done anything beside what was suggested before.

Yes, I certainly do mean it. By surprises I mean I would rather not know exactly when an update is coming. The content of the update may be something that was previously suggested, but you don't know which content he will be including at any given time.

For example, with the forum update, we knew we were getting the forum, but did we know if he was going to throw in an extra gameplay feature or two? Or perhaps something else? No, we didn't, and that is what makes waiting for the next update exciting to me.

If I knew that certain features were currently being tested and almost finished it would take all the fun out of sticking around to see what was coming next.

Kaplowitz · Post by **Kaplowitz** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:55 pm

AndrewB wrote:Almost every time when we have a new update, there is some kind of hickup. How many times lackattack was saying: "I am sorry"?

Search found 73 matches

search "I am sorry"

user: Lackattack

soundout9 · Post by **soundout9** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:58 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
AndrewB wrote:Almost every time when we have a new update, there is some kind of hickup. How many times lackattack was saying: "I am sorry"?
Search found 73 matches

search "I am sorry"

user: Lackattack

decoulombe · Post by **decoulombe** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:17 am

Lack, you do a very good job for us.

We know at certain times, the job can be strenuous.

But if you ever need any help with the little things, I'll put on the coffee and order a pizza for that good o' turtle. lol

Decoulombe

nagerous · Post by **nagerous** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:01 pm

So is the small amount of posts per page a temporary measure or permenant?

laci_mae · Post by **laci_mae** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:10 pm

To Lack and all the Mods,

You don't know me because I just joined last month. However, I wanted to thank you all for the tireless hours of work you put into this awesome site. Any forum hiccups or server timeouts are both temporary and insignificant, and I think that is a real feat. Keep up the good work!

Best,
Laci

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:40 am

nagerous wrote:So is the small amount of posts per page a temporary measure or permenant?

We're currently debating this.

It will be as is at least through february.

[09-Feb-2008] Database errors

Lack, I give you my full support