Basic research is research that is done purely to further knowledge in a particular field.
For example, I'm working on a mutant yeast strain that turns funny colors on copper media. By isolating the gene and studying the products of the gene, I am shining light on the function of the pathway involved in copper metabolism. What kind of money could anyone make on all the effort I put into this? Surely not me. Not to mention, I can't afford to do it myself. Do you know how expensive E. coli is?
Applied research would take my, and others', contributions and use them for other (often capitalistic, see pharmaceuticals) means. For example, one might synthesize or otherwise obtain a chemical that reduces the symptoms of copper-related diseases like Wilson's disease. The important thing is, science is so specialized that people doing basic research are usually not capable of doing both basic and applied sciences. Application requires a broader knowledge, and basic requires a more narrow perspective.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Neoteny wrote:Basic research is research that is done purely to further knowledge in a particular field.
For example, I'm working on a mutant yeast strain that turns funny colors on copper media. By isolating the gene and studying the products of the gene, I am shining light on the function of the pathway involved in copper metabolism. What kind of money could anyone make on all the effort I put into this? Surely not me. Not to mention, I can't afford to do it myself. Do you know how expensive E. coli is?
Applied research would take my, and others', contributions and use them for other (often capitalistic, see pharmaceuticals) means. For example, one might synthesize or otherwise obtain a chemical that reduces the symptoms of copper-related diseases like Wilson's disease. The important thing is, science is so specialized that people doing basic research are usually not capable of doing both basic and applied sciences. Application requires a broader knowledge, and basic requires a more narrow perspective.
I still think that it could be privately funded. It would just take someone who cares to fund raise. The money is out there. It just needs to be appropriated from the right person/s.
My daughter wanted to go to Brazil, so she sold pies. She made it to Brazil. Where there is a will, there is a way.
I know that I'm generalizing in a very annoying way. I'm not trying to be flippant. I just truly believe it can be done without the government.
Neoteny wrote:Basic research is research that is done purely to further knowledge in a particular field.
For example, I'm working on a mutant yeast strain that turns funny colors on copper media. By isolating the gene and studying the products of the gene, I am shining light on the function of the pathway involved in copper metabolism. What kind of money could anyone make on all the effort I put into this? Surely not me. Not to mention, I can't afford to do it myself. Do you know how expensive E. coli is?
Applied research would take my, and others', contributions and use them for other (often capitalistic, see pharmaceuticals) means. For example, one might synthesize or otherwise obtain a chemical that reduces the symptoms of copper-related diseases like Wilson's disease. The important thing is, science is so specialized that people doing basic research are usually not capable of doing both basic and applied sciences. Application requires a broader knowledge, and basic requires a more narrow perspective.
I still think that it could be privately funded. It would just take someone who cares to fund raise. The money is out there. It just needs to be appropriated from the right person/s.
My daughter wanted to go to Brazil, so she sold pies. She made it to Brazil. Where there is a will, there is a way.
I know that I'm generalizing in a very annoying way. I'm not trying to be flippant. I just truly believe it can be done without the government.
We're not talking about a small number of people here though. Additionally, what is the incentive for professors to teach at universities if it isn't for the research? If all the Ph.D.s are out getting paid by private interests, who's going to teach the upcoming students, particularly since the best and most promising scientists will be the one's the universities will be losing?
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Neoteny wrote:Basic research is research that is done purely to further knowledge in a particular field.
For example, I'm working on a mutant yeast strain that turns funny colors on copper media. By isolating the gene and studying the products of the gene, I am shining light on the function of the pathway involved in copper metabolism. What kind of money could anyone make on all the effort I put into this? Surely not me. Not to mention, I can't afford to do it myself. Do you know how expensive E. coli is?
Applied research would take my, and others', contributions and use them for other (often capitalistic, see pharmaceuticals) means. For example, one might synthesize or otherwise obtain a chemical that reduces the symptoms of copper-related diseases like Wilson's disease. The important thing is, science is so specialized that people doing basic research are usually not capable of doing both basic and applied sciences. Application requires a broader knowledge, and basic requires a more narrow perspective.
I still think that it could be privately funded. It would just take someone who cares to fund raise. The money is out there. It just needs to be appropriated from the right person/s.
My daughter wanted to go to Brazil, so she sold pies. She made it to Brazil. Where there is a will, there is a way.
I know that I'm generalizing in a very annoying way. I'm not trying to be flippant. I just truly believe it can be done without the government.
Aww for f*ck's sake - you want the future of scientific research based on a scientists ability to sell pies! If the scientists are reduced to being money men - all that will ever get researched are populist subjects. No one's going to fund the 10 years of hard graft it might take to discover a cure for an obscure disease when they can choose to fund some quick research to make a new E number flavour.
I agree with Neoteny - state funding is necessary to develop science and technology. If its left to corporations the market alone dictates the areas of research - not what society needs.
Snowpepsi wrote:Education: Privatize it. End school taxes. You choose where to send your kid and how much you're willing to pay. Teach them yourself. If you can not teach them yourself and can't afford to send them somwhere, you have a few options. 1.) Don't have kids. 2.) Move to a country that does have free education. 3.) Let charitable organizations open up free or reduced priced schools. They do it in other countries all the time. Anyone who chooses to donate to such a cause, may do it freely.
That's penalizing kids even more for not being born to wealthy parents, something they're penalized enough for already. If we can't guarantee that all kids will have an equal start, we can hope that public education will make this into some sort of meritocracy.
How many people do you know that put themselves through school? This would work on that premise. Once the government workers are gone, their will be a lot more options for those less educated. Work your way through school. I hear the road companies are hiring. They teach on the job. As for k12 education, change it k10 and start apprenticeships. Anyone who hasn't completed their k10 and wants to can to do once they have a job that pays well enough. Or just take that job that is being offered that they are qualified for and work their way up. And remember their will always be the charitable organization schools. (google Weedpatch school in California.)
And what if you want to be a scientist? Or a professor? A historian? An art critic? Any other job which requires education?
Privatizing schools is a really, really bad idea. Education is not something to be bought. Not only the education will become shitter, you will create massive gaps between the classes.
Snowpepsi wrote:Education: Privatize it. End school taxes. You choose where to send your kid and how much you're willing to pay. Teach them yourself. If you can not teach them yourself and can't afford to send them somwhere, you have a few options. 1.) Don't have kids. 2.) Move to a country that does have free education. 3.) Let charitable organizations open up free or reduced priced schools. They do it in other countries all the time. Anyone who chooses to donate to such a cause, may do it freely.
That's penalizing kids even more for not being born to wealthy parents, something they're penalized enough for already. If we can't guarantee that all kids will have an equal start, we can hope that public education will make this into some sort of meritocracy.
How many people do you know that put themselves through school? This would work on that premise. Once the government workers are gone, their will be a lot more options for those less educated. Work your way through school. I hear the road companies are hiring. They teach on the job. As for k12 education, change it k10 and start apprenticeships. Anyone who hasn't completed their k10 and wants to can to do once they have a job that pays well enough. Or just take that job that is being offered that they are qualified for and work their way up. And remember their will always be the charitable organization schools. (google Weedpatch school in California.)
And what if you want to be a scientist? Or a professor? A historian? An art critic? Any other job which requires education?
Privatizing schools is a really, really bad idea. Education is not something to be bought. Not only the education will become shitter, you will create massive gaps between the classes.
How? The rich already send kids to private schools, the moderatley affluent can move to a less defavorised area. Privatizing schools (whilst retaining some govt. influence over them if and where necessary) exposes them to market forces which will necessarily improve them and tailor them to suit the needs of parents, whilst not entrenching any social divisions, but rather enabling kids of promise to gain scholarships to better schools which cater to their specialty. Spending on schools has more than doubled since the 1980s in the US, yet no improvment is visible. A new alternative is needed
what do you do to guarantee an essential public good should something occur that causes a number of schools to be non profitable assuming we open up schools to the private market. Not only do you further a multi tiered structure, but should a case of market failure occur, you actually end up worsening the prospects for individuals who stood a better chance to succeed as it was, reducing the long term profitability of the investment you are making in education.
got tonkaed wrote:what do you do to guarantee an essential public good should something occur that causes a number of schools to be non profitable assuming we open up schools to the private market. Not only do you further a multi tiered structure, but should a case of market failure occur, you actually end up worsening the prospects for individuals who stood a better chance to succeed as it was, reducing the long term profitability of the investment you are making in education.
Given the massive returns on private schooling ventures, and the increasing market for home tutors, I'd dispel the claim that it isn't going to be profitable.
Besides, the laws of economics preconise that if a venture will give a return, it will receive investment.
I'd also point out that though you do get stratification, the levels of education will improve overall, if become less equal (which itself is debatable).
Snowpepsi wrote:Sewer and water: privatize it. You pay to be hooked up, same as you do for power, and telephone. Landlords must include the price in the rent (which they do here anyway.) People can choose to have their own well and septic system.
Nnnooooo.
Electricity and a telephone line are luxuries. Sewage and water, however, fall firmly into the category of "things that should be guaranteed as part of your basic rights". Make people pay significant amounts for water and sewage and we get to see what new and interesting diseases are formed by close contact between humanity and large volumes of untreated sewage.
Last edited by Neutrino on Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We own all your helmets, we own all your shoes, we own all your generals. Touch us and you loooose...
Snowpepsi wrote:Sewer and water: privatize it. You pay to be hooked up, same as you do for power, and telephone. Landlords must include the price in the rent (which they do here anyway.) People can choose to have their own well and septic system.
Nnnooooo.
Electricity and a telephone line are luxuries. Sewage and water, however, fall firmly into the category of "things that should be guaranteed as part of your basic rights". Make people pay significant amounts for water and sewage and we get to see what new and interesting diseases are formed by close contact between humanity and large volumes of treated sewage.
I live in America, i pay 45 usd a month for water, and own my own sewage system. Am i being denied my basic rights because I have to pay for them myself?
Yeah, let the free market determine the prices for things necessary to life. Worked in Bolivia just fine. People don't really like not being able to afford water that much. Greedy peasants, wanting to stay alive... the audacity.
Snowpepsi wrote: I live in America, i pay 45 usd a month for water, and own my own sewage system. Am i being denied my basic rights because I have to pay for them myself?
I would hazard a guess that you are not the typical US citizen, though. I really doubt that the poorer classes would be able to afford that much for water and maintain their own septic tank/pay to use the communal one.
Rather than pay exorbitant rates for the septic tank, people will just throw sewage out the window. And guess what kind of biologically based fun that leads too...
We own all your helmets, we own all your shoes, we own all your generals. Touch us and you loooose...
Snowpepsi wrote: I live in America, i pay 45 usd a month for water, and own my own sewage system. Am i being denied my basic rights because I have to pay for them myself?
I would hazard a guess that you are not the typical US citizen, though. I really doubt that the poorer classes would be able to afford that much for water and maintain their own septic tank/pay to use the communal one. Rather than pay exorbitant rates for the septic tank, people will just throw sewage out the window. And guess what kind of biologically based fun that leads too...
They have laws now that prevent people from moving in to places without septic and water. That wouldn't change. Poor people son't buy houses they rent. so I repeat: landlords would have these things included in the rent. Just like they do now.
They have laws now that prevent people from moving in to places without septic and water. That wouldn't change. Poor people son't buy houses they rent. so I repeat: landlords would have these things included in the rent. Just like they do now.
So your solution to a presumably nonexistent problem (I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the state of the US' sewage system, but I haven't heard anyone complaining about it) is to raise rents for everyone?
We own all your helmets, we own all your shoes, we own all your generals. Touch us and you loooose...
1. "Annex" Canada into Alaska and other Northern States, along with "Conservatizing" them (Mounties vs Abrams Tanks, you decide who wins).
2. Close the border, already have 1/3 of Mexico's population, don't really need anymore.
3. Kick the UN out of here, pull out from it, and see how far they get without US troops in their ranks.
4. Abolish Black History Month. Now before getting on my case about this, hear me out. I do believe it is important to remember the like of MLK and others doing good deeds, but how come no one else gets their own month? Surely the Natives should get their own month, after all, they lost their ancestral lands (even though they pushed other tribes out the same way), or the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. You see what I mean? They were slaves, yes, but far from being the only ones to suffer. Did you know that there were also black slave owners here? Shocking, but true.
5. All men are created equal, so, why the hell do we have laws that force company owners to hire people based on their color/religion/whatever instead of skill? In other words, be rid of affirmative action, and if it does happen to be a racist thing, take it to court.
6. No flag burning unless you are a veteran of the US military and the flag has been damaged, or is out of date. It is NOT a freedom of speech, it is desecrating the flag.
7. We are Americans, if we were born here, we have the right to be called such. Not all of us are "yanks," like not all Brits are English. Canada is called Canadians, Mexico, Mexicans, Brazil Brazilians, so that doesn't really leave much choice.
8. Break off of everything post-WWI and continue long standing feud with Britain.
9. Less government in private lives (elderly and such can be exceptions).
10. Lower taxes, why tax so many people that already have to pay other things so heavily?
11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age.
12. Give the French government the finger. Let's face it, France went kind of downhill since Napoleon Bonaparte.
1. "Annex" Canada into Alaska and other Northern States, along with "Conservatizing" them (Mounties vs Abrams Tanks, you decide who wins).
2. Close the border, already have 1/3 of Mexico's population, don't really need anymore.
3. Kick the UN out of here, pull out from it, and see how far they get without US troops in their ranks.
So basically you'd give the rest of the world the finger, before retreating to Fort USA? Sounds like the humanitarian thing to do. Have fun when China annex's you because they've been advancing technologically while you've spent all your cash on a 300km tall wall to keep the Mexicans out.
muy_thaiguy wrote:7. We are Americans, if we were born here, we have the right to be called such. Not all of us are "yanks," like not all Brits are English. Canada is called Canadians, Mexico, Mexicans, Brazil Brazilians, so that doesn't really leave much choice.
Actually, you're USAians, due to being born in the USA. If you succeed in capturing the entirety of NA, then you can call yourself whatever the hell you want, but until then you're US citizens.
muy_thaiguy wrote:11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age.
Nnnnooooooo.
Does no-one actually think the scenario through and consider what universal gun ownership will do to the violent death rate? Gun education and everything I didn't quote is good, though (except no. 8. I had no idea what you meant by that).
We own all your helmets, we own all your shoes, we own all your generals. Touch us and you loooose...
muy_thaiguy wrote:11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age.
Nnnnooooooo. Does no-one actually think the scenario through and consider what universal gun ownership will do to the violent death rate? Gun education and everything I didn't quote is good, though (except no. 8. I had no idea what you meant by that).
Yes A lot of people do Neuteredino and conclude it would be much lower. Don't believe me? Look up the crime rates of the one country that has put into place such laws. Ithas the lowest homicide rate in Europe. It does not even bother collecting firearm crime statistics.
1. "Annex" Canada into Alaska and other Northern States, along with "Conservatizing" them (Mounties vs Abrams Tanks, you decide who wins).
2. Close the border, already have 1/3 of Mexico's population, don't really need anymore.
3. Kick the UN out of here, pull out from it, and see how far they get without US troops in their ranks.
4. Abolish Black History Month. Now before getting on my case about this, hear me out. I do believe it is important to remember the like of MLK and others doing good deeds, but how come no one else gets their own month? Surely the Natives should get their own month, after all, they lost their ancestral lands (even though they pushed other tribes out the same way), or the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. You see what I mean? They were slaves, yes, but far from being the only ones to suffer. Did you know that there were also black slave owners here? Shocking, but true.
5. All men are created equal, so, why the hell do we have laws that force company owners to hire people based on their color/religion/whatever instead of skill? In other words, be rid of affirmative action, and if it does happen to be a racist thing, take it to court.
6. No flag burning unless you are a veteran of the US military and the flag has been damaged, or is out of date. It is NOT a freedom of speech, it is desecrating the flag.
7. We are Americans, if we were born here, we have the right to be called such. Not all of us are "yanks," like not all Brits are English. Canada is called Canadians, Mexico, Mexicans, Brazil Brazilians, so that doesn't really leave much choice.
8. Break off of everything post-WWI and continue long standing feud with Britain.
9. Less government in private lives (elderly and such can be exceptions).
10. Lower taxes, why tax so many people that already have to pay other things so heavily?
11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age.
12. Give the French government the finger. Let's face it, France went kind of downhill since Napoleon Bonaparte.
May add more later.
I think you're just trying to piss people off...
muy_thaiguy wrote:9. Less government in private lives (elderly and such can be exceptions).
11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age.
And I find this mildly ironic.
Last edited by Neoteny on Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
1. "Annex" Canada into Alaska and other Northern States, along with "Conservatizing" them (Mounties vs Abrams Tanks, you decide who wins).
2. Close the border, already have 1/3 of Mexico's population, don't really need anymore.
3. Kick the UN out of here, pull out from it, and see how far they get without US troops in their ranks.
4. Abolish Black History Month. Now before getting on my case about this, hear me out. I do believe it is important to remember the like of MLK and others doing good deeds, but how come no one else gets their own month? Surely the Natives should get their own month, after all, they lost their ancestral lands (even though they pushed other tribes out the same way), or the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. You see what I mean? They were slaves, yes, but far from being the only ones to suffer. Did you know that there were also black slave owners here? Shocking, but true.
5. All men are created equal, so, why the hell do we have laws that force company owners to hire people based on their color/religion/whatever instead of skill? In other words, be rid of affirmative action, and if it does happen to be a racist thing, take it to court.
6. No flag burning unless you are a veteran of the US military and the flag has been damaged, or is out of date. It is NOT a freedom of speech, it is desecrating the flag.
7. We are Americans, if we were born here, we have the right to be called such. Not all of us are "yanks," like not all Brits are English. Canada is called Canadians, Mexico, Mexicans, Brazil Brazilians, so that doesn't really leave much choice.
8. Break off of everything post-WWI and continue long standing feud with Britain.
9. Less government in private lives (elderly and such can be exceptions).
10. Lower taxes, why tax so many people that already have to pay other things so heavily?
11. Guns will be a required household item, and kids taught gun safety from an early age. 12. Give the French government the finger. Let's face it, France went kind of downhill since Napoleon Bonaparte.
May add more later.
I bolded the ones that make sense.
The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart.
