9/11 Conspiracies(threads merged)

[Backglass]

You're wrong, and being dumb. You can SEE THE EXPLOSION ON THE TAPE.

From the NIST FAQ:

Q: Weren't the puffs of smoke that were seen, as the collapse of each WTC tower starts, evidence of controlled demolition explosions?

No. As stated in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1 (you do remember reading this part? right? ), the falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it—much like the action of a piston—forcing smoke and debris out the windows as the stories below failed sequentially.

These puffs were observed at many locations as the towers collapsed. In all cases, they had the appearance of jets of gas being pushed from the building through windows or between columns on the mechanical floors. Such jets are expected since the air inside the building is compressed as the tower falls and must flow somewhere as the pressure builds. It is significant that similar “puffs” were observed numerous times on the fire floors in both towers prior to their collapses, perhaps due to falling walls or portions of a floor. Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.

[Juan_Bottom]

You're wrong, and being dumb. You can SEE THE EXPLOSION ON THE TAPE.

From the NIST FAQ:

Q: Weren't the puffs of smoke that were seen, as the collapse of each WTC tower starts, evidence of controlled demolition explosions?

No. As stated in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, the falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it—much like the action of a piston—forcing smoke and debris out the windows as the stories below failed sequentially.

These puffs were observed at many locations as the towers collapsed. In all cases, they had the appearance of jets of gas being pushed from the building through windows or between columns on the mechanical floors. Such jets are expected since the air inside the building is compressed as the tower falls and must flow somewhere as the pressure builds. It is significant that similar “puffs” were observed numerous times on the fire floors in both towers prior to their collapses, perhaps due to falling walls or portions of a floor. Puffs from WTC 1 were even observed when WTC 2 was struck by the aircraft. These observations confirm that even minor overpressures were transmitted through the towers and forced smoke and debris from the building.

IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS AT ALL. I'm talking about the explosion from the planes!!!!! Those EXPLOSIONS were caused BY THE JET FUEL EXPLODING AND BURNING UP.


And yes, those puffs are ALSO CHARACTORISTIC of demolitions for the same reason. Just not exclusive.

[heavycola]

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Tower 7 also had a closed fiber-optic line with the pentagon that day. Between that and the bodies with bullet holes, most truthers speculate that tower 7 played a big role in the attacks.<---not neccisaraly me

Do you have any idea the number of fiber & copper cables that were involved in the WTC complex? I will bet there were a lot more than one not-functioning that day. I will go out on a limb and say that there were at least two escalators, one elevator and ten Urinals out of order as well. Does this prove ANYTHING? Only that it was a HUGE complex with a lot of infrastructure.

Again, not my theory. But still plausable. One closed communication line.

Why is this plausible? This is what I meant by half-baked speculation. Tower 7 had a closed fibre optic link... like a batphone straight to don rumsfeld's office? Do you have any evidence, at all, for this? I'll save you some time - no, you don't. And neither does anyone else. This is the creationists' version - dreaming up scenarios to fit what you want to believe.
Also, backglass is right. And he's right about cellphones on planes, too. The only reason planes need 'towers' is because cell phones put out stronger and stronger signals when they don;t find a receiver nearby. On plaanes, it is not known whether these strong signals can interfere with avionics. On-plane 'towers' allow phones to transmit very weak signals. And promise to make flights more hellish for all of us
if you could find the pilots union statement, we could see what we made of it.



As far as the 'puffs' go - are they characteristic of controlled demolition because teh floors fall down on one another? kind of like what happens when a building collapses after being struck by a fully-fuelled jetliner at 500mph?

[Backglass]

Also, backglass is right. And he's right about cellphones on planes, too.

And more importantly, I am right about the Urinals.

TEN URINALS at the World Trade Center were out of order that day. COINCIDENCE? I think not!

What else could this be but an inside job? Hmmmm?

[heavycola]

Also, backglass is right. And he's right about cellphones on planes, too.

And more importantly, I am right about the Urinals.

TEN URINALS at the World Trade Center were out of order that day. COINCIDENCE? I think not!

What else could this be but an inside job? Hmmmm?

The plumbing contractor for the WTC that day was a close friend of Dick Cheney's pool guy. Seriously.

[Juan_Bottom]

So much of the conspiracy theories are generated by the government. I mean come on CIA - you mean to tell me that there were just 2 security cameras that caught about 6 frames of blurred plane slamming into the Pentagon?

I don't believe that a building as important as the Pentagon had such a small amount of security surveillance in the immediate vicinity.

All they had to do was release the footage from all the other cameras and the conspiracy theory would of been lessened. But they didn't. (and no one would believe them if they released it this far down the line)

If conspiracy theorists are upsetting a large amount of Americans - they are fueled by the CIA.

Agreed. They confiscated around 50 tapes from local businessess as well. They wont release any of them because of "national security." Yet they publish the results of thier investigation. Makes 0 sense.

I HAVE READ the commission report. The collapse was due to fire in all three accounts.

You must have missed this from last year: http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/rele ... 62907.html

I had missed it actually. On purpose. I read the original report. The one that truthers tore apart, and forced new investigations. I never read any of their repeated revisions. It was hard enough to read the first time. And I'm not talking about their lies, I'm saying it actually was hard to read.

And the plumbers union says airplanes can't make a zero-g roll. Last time I checked pilots didn't build cell phones. Don;t take my word for it...try it some time. They work just fine. The real reason is a disruption of the cellular grid as you can hit multiple towers in multiple area simultaneously. That and money.

I won't take your word for it. I'll take the Pilots Union's.

Again, who is claiming that the planes completely vanished? I have never heard anyone claim this. You don;t need a complete, intact body in order to identify it. Many were identified through other means as well...documents, jewelry, dental work, etc.

The Commission Report, and all film footage. The planes allegedly vaporized. With people inside of them, but people don't vaporize easily I suppose...
And yes, we are aware of those other Items. Gives us a chance to bring up the passport of one of the terrorists being found at the same crash site that a Black Box vaporized from. Amazing...

Alledged Gold.

Alleged by the World Bank and Kuwait.

So...firefighters are now controlled demo experts?

How arrogant and dumb do you sound. I don't have to be a bomb expert to be hit with one.

Fact: There are only TWO companies in the world who could even attempt such a demo.
Fact: It would take MONTHS of prep work. Hundreds of thousands of charges. Sawing and drilling through every support structure in the building. Hundreds of miles of wire and a very large crew to accomplish.

Yet...nobody saw these hundreds of prep workers. Nobody saw the miles of cables. Nobody saw the support structures being pre-weakened.

You may wan't to check you "facts" with what you should know I'm gonna say. Probably between 4-6 months actually.

You sound a lot like me when I throw my facts around. Only... I won't dismiss yours...

Again, your theory takes THOUSANDS of accomplices.

No, a couple hundred max. And it's easy in this big world to make a hundred people disappear. Rmember, firefightes have testified that they saw bodies inside tower 7.

SEVEN YEARS later and the story is airtight.

So says you.

[heavycola]

Juan, again, some evidence for the fiber optic hotline, World Bank testimony about missing gold, and/or even the pilots' union statement would all be good to see here.

Listen mate, you need to rebut. A demolition on that scale is not accomplished by a few NSA ninjas with a suitcase of C4. You can speculate all you want, but teh question 'HOW' is the most important here.

- How did they arrange the preparationd for the demolition? (please don't suggest the marvin bush link, I can tear that apart too easily)

- How did a few hundred people pull this off? All the firefighters, port authority workers, demolition experts, eyewitnesses, pentagon workers, government officials, military... *hundreds*? Consoiracy theories are seductive - they make the world seem more like a bond movie at the same time as reassuring us, at some level, that very clever people are in charge, and that we are also very clever for being onto them - but you have to ask HOW.

HOW!

[Simon Viavant]

I'm not gonna argue either way, but it's possible. The fuel tanks were completely full when it hit, it had just refilled. It took a very precision timing and amount of impact, pressure, explosion, and fire to make the building go down. The impact alone wouldn't have done it, or the explosion, or the fire, and if they weren't timed as well the building might not have gone down.

[Backglass]

Agreed. They confiscated around 50 tapes from local businessess as well. They wont release any of them because of "national security." Yet they publish the results of thier investigation. Makes 0 sense.

It makes perfect sense to me. The Pentagon is one of, if not THE most important military building on our countries soil. Do you just expect them to release to the planet video's of potential structural weaknesses, etc? A nice roadmap on how to do it again? It isn't a smart move not to mention the embarrassment of our highest security building exploding. Remember those videos shot round the world of Hussein's statue being pulled down? It would be like that...trumpeted worldwide.

When have ANY tapes been released of a high security government building? Where are the security tapes from inside the White House or Area 51?

So says you.

FTW!

[Juan_Bottom]

Juan, again, some evidence for the fiber optic hotline, World Bank testimony about missing gold, and/or even the pilots' union statement would all be good to see here.

It's all in the latest loose change film. I can't pull their sources for you without being a member. I got banned for argueing with them.

How did they arrange the preparationd for the demolition? (please don't suggest the marvin bush link, I can tear that apart too easily)

Security 6 months before 9-11 was tripled. This is becuase Larry S. was negotiating a new insurance policy, which, included brand new "terrorist insurance." Yes, Marvi Bush owns the security company. He also owns the security at Dulles Airforce base.
What people don't take into account is that Mr. Silverstein was losing mony on the towers. And they were in need of about(conservative estimate) $4 million in repairs. Asbestos being their most immediate concern. The city had even disscussed doing it themselves, and charging him later.
But he actually profited from 9-11.

Consoiracy theories are seductive - they make the world seem more like a bond movie at the same time as reassuring us, at some level, that very clever people are in charge, and that we are also very clever for being onto them - but you have to ask HOW.

The Gulf of Tonkin has now been declassified as a fake attack on ourselves. We blew up our own patrol boat as an excuse to go to war. The Remember the Main! incident has now been declassified. We blew up our own Battaleship as an excuse to go to war. It's been done before. This exact same way... Then there's this..Neo-con document called "Re-arming America's Defenses", published by the "Project for a New American Century", in the year 2000, calls for a "new Pearl Harbor" to get the American public on board for a global war of aggression to secure oil reserves?

I prefer to ask how in referance to how they're getting away with it.

Why is this plausible? This is what I meant by half-baked speculation.

It's plausable because of the bodies seen in tower 7.

[Juan_Bottom]

It makes perfect sense to me. The Pentagon is one of, if not THE most important military building on our countries soil. Do you just expect them to release to the planet video's of potential structural weaknesses, etc? A nice roadmap on how to do it again? It isn't a smart move not to mention the embarrassment of our highest security building exploding. Remember those videos shot round the world of Hussein's statue being pulled down? It would be like that...trumpeted worldwide.

When have ANY tapes been released of a high security government building? Where are the security tapes from inside the White House or Area 51?

What did I just say??? Read it again.

They released their full investigation of what happened. INCLUDING IMPaCT SITE, SPEED, AND FULL DAMAGE REPORT. Why would anyone need to see the tapes?
They already released the "roadmap."

[heavycola]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGIeam-qH1c

here is Alex Jones at ground zero, shouting out claims that:

a) Marvin Bush was in charge of security for the WTC complex
b) his contract ended on the morning of 9/11/2001
c) the week before 9/11, they closed the towers down mysteriously


The reasons Alex Jones is wrong are a good insight into the conspiracy theory mentality, and into why these non-truths spread the way they do.

the truth:
a) Marvin Bush worked for a company that was one of numerous contractors employed to install features such as CCTV and turnstiles in the WTC complex between 1996 and 1998. Marvin Bush was on the board of this public limited company. He did not own it, then or now.
The company is called Stratesec - here is a link http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 000032.txt to its SEC filing for 1999. On page 15 you can see that Marvin Bush was on the board, not the CEO, the chair or the owner. The filing also reveals that Stratesec's WTC contract ended in 1998.

The New York Port Authority has always been in charge of security at the WTC.

b) he stopped working for them in 2000, as discussed.

c) ... i'll go into this in detail if you care. Can't ne arsed to do the typing right now

Point is, Alex Jones is happy to shout out statements full of errors - basic errors that show he has not bothered to check his facts even cursorily. But they sound good, and they back up the whole 9/11 conspiracy, so who cares if they are accurate, right? GWB's brother was IN CHARGE OF SECURITY! HE OWNED THE COMPANY! HIS CONTRACT FINISHED THAT SAME MORNING!!1!!!! etc etc etc. See?

Alex Jones is at worst a lying scam artist; at best a lazy, irresponsible idiot. His testimony here is, as I have shown, based on lies, errors and half-truths. Why would he take any more care over his other claims? Have I shown you enough yet?

[Juan_Bottom]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

[Pedronicus]

Agreed. They confiscated around 50 tapes from local businessess as well. They wont release any of them because of "national security." Yet they publish the results of thier investigation. Makes 0 sense.

It makes perfect sense to me. The Pentagon is one of, if not THE most important military building on our countries soil. Do you just expect them to release to the planet video's of potential structural weaknesses, etc? A nice roadmap on how to do it again? It isn't a smart move not to mention the embarrassment of our highest security building exploding. Remember those videos shot round the world of Hussein's statue being pulled down? It would be like that...trumpeted worldwide.

When have ANY tapes been released of a high security government building? Where are the security tapes from inside the White House or Area 51?

The Pentagon now can have a zillion dollars extra just to install anti aircraft missiles and even install a moat with sharks with freaking lazer beams, due to it being attacked. It's probably got more security than fort knox after pussy galore sprayed it with the sleeping gas.
This all from not issuing images. if they issued more images - they would of still gotten the funding to make the place bullet proof, but no one in their right mind is going to think that attacking the Pentagon is going to be easy EVEN IF they gave 'Road Maps' via some tape footage. The Pentagon will now repel any other attack (even a ICBM)

Pulling down Hussien's statue with a rope, tied round a tank, is a totally different image due to the end of an invasion and invading forces reaching the capital. Footage of an out of the blue suicide attack is in another league.

[heavycola]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

I didn't suggest you did get it from Alex Jones, I was making a wider point about leading conspiracy theorists' sources.

Juan if you want to check, click the link i gave you. It's Stratesec's 1999 filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 000032.txt

As far as wirign the building - again, man, HOW?? 3,000 people worked there, used the lifts, every day of every year, and nobody saw anything? heard anything? HOW! HOW HOW HOW!!

[Juan_Bottom]

Agreed. They confiscated around 50 tapes from local businessess as well. They wont release any of them because of "national security." Yet they publish the results of thier investigation. Makes 0 sense.

It makes perfect sense to me. The Pentagon is one of, if not THE most important military building on our countries soil. Do you just expect them to release to the planet video's of potential structural weaknesses, etc? A nice roadmap on how to do it again? It isn't a smart move not to mention the embarrassment of our highest security building exploding. Remember those videos shot round the world of Hussein's statue being pulled down? It would be like that...trumpeted worldwide.

When have ANY tapes been released of a high security government building? Where are the security tapes from inside the White House or Area 51?

The Pentagon now can have a zillion dollars extra just to install anti aircraft missiles and even install a moat with sharks with freaking lazer beams, due to it being attacked. It's probably got more security than fort knox after pussy galore sprayed it with the sleeping gas.
This all from not issuing images. if they issued more images - they would of still gotten the funding to make the place bullet proof, but no one in their right mind is going to think that attacking the Pentagon is going to be easy EVEN IF they gave 'Road Maps' via some tape footage. The Pentagon will now repel any other attack (even a ICBM)

Pulling down Hussien's statue with a rope tied round a tank is a totally different image due to the end result of an invasion and reaching the capital. Footage of an out of the blue suicide attack is in another league.

I think I follow....But don't understand....... I think that BACKGLASS and I were discussing attacks from other nations.

But to address you...I don't understand. They still show footage of the towers getting hit. And they are clear as day. I don't think anyone is going to copycat just because of the Pentagon.

And still, even with that, our Department of Homeland Security has yet to capture a terrorists.

[The1exile]

even install a moat with sharks with freaking lazer beams

groovy baby!

[InkL0sed]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

Those two incidents were TOTALLY different, in scale, and in symbolism.

Plus, if Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq, he wouldn't have done something as huge as 9/11. It could have easily been something like the Gulf of Tonkin or Remember the Maine -- a staged attack on our military, not civilians, and something clearly linked with Iraq. He wouldn't have attacked the Pentagon either. The WTC alone would have been already much more than enough.

Seriously, this would have been suicidal, to stage such an attack on our own citizenry just to go to war. Bush wouldn't have only been impeached, he would have been executed. Probably in the blink of an eye.

Not to mention the unimaginable damage it would have done to the country...

[Juan_Bottom]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

I didn't suggest you did get it from Alex Jones, I was making a wider point about leading conspiracy theorists' sources.

Juan if you want to check, click the link i gave you. It's Stratesec's 1999 filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 000032.txt

As far as wirign the building - again, man, HOW?? 3,000 people worked there, used the lifts, every day of every year, and nobody saw anything? heard anything? HOW! HOW HOW HOW!!

Screw Alex Jones, I try to use him as little as possible, because he does sound crazy. He was right about spider-goats though.....He got me good with that one.

The Bombs probably were installed by the tripled security. They would have access to all floors, at all times, and could avoid all security measures. Funny story, just weeks before 9-11, bomb sniffing dogs were REMOVED from the security force.
The bombs themselves were probably laid at night. Shortly before 9-11 whole floors had been shut down for maintenece. These could be the tricky floors to plant explosives, we don't know.
But like I said, the towers were in desperate need of repairs. Maintenance would be a great excuse.

I think it would be easy to hide bombs from someone who wasn't looking for them. Especially with a Black Buget. The Pentagon has Nuclear bombs disquised as Coke cans. Bombs could be hidden, and wireless too. We don't know. So it's all speculation.

What we do know, is that the story doesn't work. I try to avoid speculation, and stick with the facts. Speculating will discredit a person.. Ya Know?

[Juan_Bottom]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

Those two incidents were TOTALLY different, in scale, and in symbolism.

Plus, if Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq, he wouldn't have done something as huge as 9/11. It could have easily been something like the Gulf of Tonkin or Remember the Maine -- a staged attack on our military, not civilians, and something clearly linked with Iraq. He wouldn't have attacked the Pentagon either. The WTC alone would have been already much more than enough.

Seriously, this would have been suicidal, to stage such an attack on our own citizenry just to go to war. Bush wouldn't have only been impeached, he would have been executed. Probably in the blink of an eye.

Not to mention the unimaginable damage it would have done to the country...

Your just saying that it all boils down to coincidence? The New Pearl Harbor, bodies not vaporizing, war for profit, high oil prices, buildings collapsing on their own footprint, firefighters requesting tw handlines to put out the fire, earthquakes being recorded before the towers fell......

Just the fact that we have done this before TWICE, and then asked for it to happen again..... would make me suspicious of everything.

Remember war for OIL!!!!!!!!!!

Neo-con document called "Re-arming America's Defenses", published by the "Project for a New American Century", in the year 2000, calls for a "new Pearl Harbor" to get the American public on board for a global war of aggression to secure oil reserves?

Theres just too much coincidence for me, You've gotta see my point... You've just gotta!

[heavycola]

I didn't say that I got any of that from Alex Jones. I don't know where that came from. Alex Jones doesn't have anything to do with it. I said Marvin Bush owned the security company. I may be wrong about that, I'm gonna check.
The point was that security was tripled. Within the time frame that would be needed to actually wire the building. Actual planning could strech back years.

I'm not actually saying Marvin Bush was behind anything... But I did alleage that it was possible.

But again, our government has done this twice, and ADMITTTED it.

I didn't suggest you did get it from Alex Jones, I was making a wider point about leading conspiracy theorists' sources.

Juan if you want to check, click the link i gave you. It's Stratesec's 1999 filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 000032.txt

As far as wirign the building - again, man, HOW?? 3,000 people worked there, used the lifts, every day of every year, and nobody saw anything? heard anything? HOW! HOW HOW HOW!!

Screw Alex Jones, I try to use him as little as possible, because he does sound crazy. He was right about spider-goats though.....He got me good with that one.

The Bombs probably were installed by the tripled security. They would have access to all floors, at all times, and could avoid all security measures. Funny story, just weeks before 9-11, bomb sniffing dogs were REMOVED from the security force.

funny, then, that http://www.our.homewithgod.com/mkcathy/sirius.html here is a link to a site in memoriam of sirius, a New York Port Authority (the guys ACTUALLY in charge of security, remember?) sniffer dog who was killed while at work on 9/11.
the 'sniffer dogs taken out of security procedures' myth is just that - another half-baked load of nonsense.

The bombs themselves were probably laid at night. Shortly before 9-11 whole floors had been shut down for maintenece. These could be the tricky floors to plant explosives, we don't know.

speculation? or evidence?

But like I said, the towers were in desperate need of repairs. Maintenance would be a great excuse.

I think it would be easy to hide bombs from someone who wasn't looking for them. Especially with a Black Buget. The Pentagon has Nuclear bombs disquised as Coke cans.

massive speculation? or is there any evidence? Because what you are saying, if you actually believe this, is that a full laden jetliner hitting these buildings at 500mph was never enough to cause their collapse, but a bunch of wireless bombs, small enough to evade detection for the years of preparation necessary, were plenty powerful enough? Come ON, man! HOW! HOW! HOW?

Bombs could be hidden, and wireless too. We don't know. So it's all speculation.

What we do know, is that the story doesn't work. I try to avoid speculation, and stick with the facts. Speculating will discredit a person.. Ya Know?

Oh the irony...

Juan, you need to stop coming out with these parrotted half-truths. Have you done any of your own research on this? Sniffer dogs? Closed buildings? nukes in coke cans? SEC filings?

[Juan_Bottom]

Dangitt! I lost my reply!

[InkL0sed]

This just got merged?

[Juan_Bottom]

This just got merged?

Yes and appearantly I lost BOTH of my replies. So now I'm upset.

funny, then, that http://www.our.homewithgod.com/mkcathy/sirius.html here is a link to a site in memoriam of sirius, a New York Port Authority (the guys ACTUALLY in charge of security, remember?) sniffer dog who was killed while at work on 9/11.
the 'sniffer dogs taken out of security procedures' myth is just that - another half-baked load of nonsense.

Are you saying that I'm wrong? Most people point out the five day mark.

Did this dog work in, or out of the building? The memorandum seems to point to the latter.

speculation? or evidence?

I was VERY clear on that. You asked for speculation, and you got it. Stick to argueing facts.

Oh the irony...

Juan, you need to stop coming out with these parrotted half-truths. Have you done any of your own research on this? Sniffer dogs? Closed buildings? nukes in coke cans? SEC filings?

Yes A butt-load. Are you saying that there was no construction prior to 9-11? I was encompassing that into my speculation, cheif. But construction was going on.

No, Nukes in Coke cans have nothing to do with 9-11 but they are/were real. I read it in a book...which I can't seem to recall the title too....Secret Weapons of the Pentagon? Something like that... Anyway it was written by some lady who made a promotional stop on the Daily Show. I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about.

Because what you are saying, if you actually believe this, is that a full laden jetliner hitting these buildings at 500mph was never enough to cause their collapse, but a bunch of wireless bombs, small enough to evade detection for the years of preparation necessary, were plenty powerful enough?

That's exactly what I'm saying(by the way, the raging fire caused the collapse). Let me get you straight too..... You're saying that some dudes in a cavew could do a job that our government can't? Correct?

[DaGip]

If this hasn't already been posted:

http://www.hawkscafe.com/

I would really like to get into the whole conspiracy thing, but that means that I have to take a lot of time out from debating whether or not Jesus and Lucifer are the same thing.