Logic dictates that there is a God!

[Neoteny]

Awesome thread is awesome.

oh yea neoteny..........GREAT AVI!!!!!! where did you get that? r u gay?

Where I come from, we call it security in one's masculinity.

[joecoolfrog]

Awesome thread is awesome.

oh yea neoteny..........GREAT AVI!!!!!! where did you get that? r u gay?

Where I come from, we call it security in one's masculinity.

As opposed to prayer and flagellation

[Juan_Bottom]

Awesome thread is awesome.

oh yea neoteny..........GREAT AVI!!!!!! where did you get that? r u gay?

Where I come from, we call it security in one's masculinity.

He knows how you got your Avi, he's just messing with you. Pole smoker.

[Snorri1234]

The title implies that "logic dictates" something about god. I simply gave my logical conclusion that any god that would make a world like this is an empty suit. If you have a logical response to that, well, let's hear it, but don't preach to me just follow the rules of logic.

God has given us free will. He is allowing us to do as we please at the moment. He will put a stop to it and show us that man can never self-govern, and that His rule is perfect. But He is patient and will intervene before man destroys himself totally.

Ah I see, he's taking an awful long time before coming in and showing us that man has a wee problem with governing.


One other thing I often wonder about (or actually started wondering about a few minutes ago) is why God is so selective in who he helps. I hear all you guys going on about how god peformed a miracle for you or how you felt his presence and are therefore saved, but I'm wondering why he has never shown himself to me? Does he think some people deserve it more than others?

[Neoteny]

Awesome thread is awesome.

oh yea neoteny..........GREAT AVI!!!!!! where did you get that? r u gay?

Where I come from, we call it security in one's masculinity.

He knows how you got your Avi, he's just messing with you. Pole smoker.

I figured. He started it. No need for name calling just because neither one of you can't take the heat.

[Gregrios]

One other thing I often wonder about (or actually started wondering about a few minutes ago) is why God is so selective in who he helps. I hear all you guys going on about how god peformed a miracle for you or how you felt his presence and are therefore saved, but I'm wondering why he has never shown himself to me? Does he think some people deserve it more than others?

If you seek God, you will find God. God helps those who accept him while sincerely trying to obey him.

God knows everything including the sincerity of your intentions. Therefore if you ask God for a little sign of his existence, he'll surely answer you. He'll only answer you if you're honestly seeking. God knows what's in the heart and therefore won't answer the person who only seeks to justify their own disbelief.

I hope I answered your question to satisfaction.

[mpjh]

blather -- there is no "logic" just belief

[Snorri1234]

If you seek God, you will find God.

Seriously, how do you go about seeking God? It's not like I haven't read the bible or listened to people talk about Jesus, is there any other thing to do?

[Gregrios]

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

This lacks logic on so many levels.

[Neoteny]

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

This lacks logic on so many levels.

It doesn't really. Would you care to explain why you feel that way?

[Gregrios]

If you seek God, you will find God.

Seriously, how do you go about seeking God? It's not like I haven't read the bible or listened to people talk about Jesus, is there any other thing to do?

It depends on your position. Is it God's help or God's existence that you seek?

[mpjh]

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

This lacks logic on so many levels.

Hey, I am not the one claiming there is a god. I simply said that there is no proof, and if there is one then she sure is a mean and cruel entity totally lacking in compassion of empathy. I draw that conclusion from what I see in suffering and injustice in this world. No person, much less a god, that was compassionate and loving would tolerate the world's condition if they could change it.

You, are the one claiming there is a god, and that "logic dictates" she exists. So give it up, where is the logic?

[MeDeFe]

If you seek God, you will find God.

Seriously, how do you go about seeking God? It's not like I haven't read the bible or listened to people talk about Jesus, is there any other thing to do?

It depends on your position. Is it God's help or God's existence that you seek?

His help in confirming his existence. Or so I guess.

[Gregrios]

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

This lacks logic on so many levels.

It doesn't really. Would you care to explain why you feel that way?

If you've got to ask than you won't understand the explanation. As the obviousness of this is only understood by he who knows what they're talking about in the first place and this guy obviously doesn't.

[Neoteny]

If there is a god, and I have no proof one way or t'other, then she is one cruel bastard. The act of creating this world, and allowing such suffering and horendous injustice is the act of a cruel and empty entity. If there is a god, I want nothing to do with her.

This lacks logic on so many levels.

It doesn't really. Would you care to explain why you feel that way?

If you've got to ask than you won't understand the explanation. As the obviousness of this is only understood by he who knows what their talking about in the first place and this guy obviously doesn't.

Let's cut through the high and mighty nonsense. If you can back up your statement with logic, I can respect it a bit more.

[Snorri1234]

If you seek God, you will find God.

Seriously, how do you go about seeking God? It's not like I haven't read the bible or listened to people talk about Jesus, is there any other thing to do?

It depends on your position. Is it God's help or God's existence that you seek?

Why would I need his help before I even know he exists? His existence is priority because that is what I would like to know, maybe after I can decide whether I want his help or not.


And I still don't know how to seek God.

[Gregrios]

Hey, I am not the one claiming there is a god. I simply said that there is no proof, and if there is one then she sure is a mean and cruel entity totally lacking in compassion of empathy. I draw that conclusion from what I see in suffering and injustice in this world. No person, much less a god, that was compassionate and loving would tolerate the world's condition if they could change it.

Most of this post is nothing but blind assupmtions. These blind assumptions are as follows:

1. referring to God as she/her
2. blaming God for all suffering

Explanations:

1. God is referred to as a male entity many times throughout the Bible
2. If everyone in the world were obedient to God then there would be no suffering

This makes your post completely illogical.

[Neoteny]

Hey, I am not the one claiming there is a god. I simply said that there is no proof, and if there is one then she sure is a mean and cruel entity totally lacking in compassion of empathy. I draw that conclusion from what I see in suffering and injustice in this world. No person, much less a god, that was compassionate and loving would tolerate the world's condition if they could change it.

Most of this post is nothing but blind assupmtions. These blind assumptions are as follows:

1. referring to God as she/her
2. blaming God for all suffering

Explanations:

1. God is referred to as a male entity many times throughout the Bible
2. If everyone in the world were obedient to God then there would be no suffering

This makes your post completely illogical.

Number one is an effort toward political correctness. I try to sprinkle it in now and then myself. Quite a few Christians will argue that god is genderless anyhow. I don't see how it applies to the logic of the post either.

Number two is something I've discussed at length in the past, and it is a long discussion, but a fun one if you're up for it.

[Gregrios]

If you seek God, you will find God.

Seriously, how do you go about seeking God? It's not like I haven't read the bible or listened to people talk about Jesus, is there any other thing to do?

It depends on your position. Is it God's help or God's existence that you seek?

Why would I need his help before I even know he exists? His existence is priority because that is what I would like to know, maybe after I can decide whether I want his help or not.


And I still don't know how to seek God.

That's all I needed to know. I suggest simply praying to God for any kind of sign to tell you that he indeed exists. Be alert and aware because the sign won't be catastrophic but merely enough for you yourself.

[mpjh]

Hey, I am not the one claiming there is a god. I simply said that there is no proof, and if there is one then she sure is a mean and cruel entity totally lacking in compassion of empathy. I draw that conclusion from what I see in suffering and injustice in this world. No person, much less a god, that was compassionate and loving would tolerate the world's condition if they could change it.

Most of this post is nothing but blind assupmtions. These blind assumptions are as follows:

1. referring to God as she/her
2. blaming God for all suffering

Explanations:

1. God is referred to as a male entity many times throughout the Bible
2. If everyone in the world were obedient to God then there would be no suffering

This makes your post completely illogical.

I am making no assumptions about the cruelty and injustice in the world, much of it imposed by people claiming god's support. Where is your "logic" that dictates that there is a god?

[Gregrios]

Number two is something I've discussed at length in the past, and it is a long discussion, but a fun one if you're up for it.

I've got to disagree with you. It isn't that fun as I've participated in this very discussion also. It's not any fun when people nit-pick about the trivial aspects and ignore the bigger picture. The bigger picture is very simple: Sin breeds sin. That's about as far as I'm willing to go on the subject. Sorry, maybe another time.

[Neoteny]

Number two is something I've discussed at length in the past, and it is a long discussion, but a fun one if you're up for it.

I've got to disagree with you. It isn't that fun as I've participated in this very discussion also. It's not any fun when people nit-pick about the trivial aspects and ignore the bigger picture. The bigger picture is very simple: Sin breeds sin. That's about as far as I'm willing to go on the subject. Sorry, maybe another time.

Well, it's against my nature to let anyone have the last word. So if sin breeds sin, and everything had to have a first cause... it goes back to god, does it not? Big picture-wise, of course.

[mpjh]

fist bump

[Gregrios]

Number two is something I've discussed at length in the past, and it is a long discussion, but a fun one if you're up for it.

I've got to disagree with you. It isn't that fun as I've participated in this very discussion also. It's not any fun when people nit-pick about the trivial aspects and ignore the bigger picture. The bigger picture is very simple: Sin breeds sin. That's about as far as I'm willing to go on the subject. Sorry, maybe another time.

Well, it's against my nature to let anyone have the last word. So if sin breeds sin, and everything had to have a first cause... it goes back to god, does it not? Big picture-wise, of course.

Ok. I'll bite.

Life started with God but sin and suffering started with Adam and Eve and their own free will.

[Neoteny]

Number two is something I've discussed at length in the past, and it is a long discussion, but a fun one if you're up for it.

I've got to disagree with you. It isn't that fun as I've participated in this very discussion also. It's not any fun when people nit-pick about the trivial aspects and ignore the bigger picture. The bigger picture is very simple: Sin breeds sin. That's about as far as I'm willing to go on the subject. Sorry, maybe another time.

Well, it's against my nature to let anyone have the last word. So if sin breeds sin, and everything had to have a first cause... it goes back to god, does it not? Big picture-wise, of course.

Ok. I'll bite.

Life started with God but sin and suffering started with Adam and Eve and their own free will.

I'll try to keep it short, since you're hesitant. They got that free will from god, right? And he knew it was going to happen?