[Deadpool] A new private civil discussion forum

[Juan_Bottom]

Screw it, I don't care.

I know of an awesome place where the Athiests hang out. So I'm contented.

[CrazyAnglican]

One: Should the OP have not asked himself these same questions?
Two: Are people not aware of the options(ignore list) and devices(scroll wheel) that are already in place to deal with these issues?
Three: Who would comprise the body of the Gestapo that would have the final say of who gets to post there?
Four: I'll ask again: Why dont you just start your own "private civil discussion forum"? (A $30 monthly bill between sixty+ of you is less than fifty cents each)
Five: Why does it have to be here?

These are honest, non-trolling questions. Would someone in favor of this new forum please answer them?

#1 Why? is stating that it would be nice to have a place where people discuss things without being insulting really mental diahhrea?
#2 Sure they are, however, some folks would rather just take part in a decent, straight up conversation in which both sides agree up-front to respect each other. What's wrong with that?
#3 Gestapo? Godwin's law .... much? What makes people fascist for merely saying "It's a little silly for supposedly grown and mature people to act as irresponsibly as some have in the name of their viewpoint" (and that goes for trolls on any subject).
#4 I pay for the right to be here the same as anybody else. Why would you even consider this to be a relevant question? Are you seriously degrading to "Well, if you don't like to be insulted then just go away?" Who says that?
#5 I'm a member here; clans are allowed here. Why would you ask that?

Since "millitant atheists" are excluded from the conversation it does seem like a place where Christians don't really wanna hear any criticism.

There's no criticism of us in the JF forum, again, why would we need that? This forum would be a place were everybody will theoretically be allowed to state their views without being insulted and I'm beginning to see why that would be a problem for some.

[Neoteny]

One: Should the OP have not asked himself these same questions?
Two: Are people not aware of the options(ignore list) and devices(scroll wheel) that are already in place to deal with these issues?
Three: Who would comprise the body of the Gestapo that would have the final say of who gets to post there?
Four: I'll ask again: Why dont you just start your own "private civil discussion forum"? (A $30 monthly bill between sixty+ of you is less than fifty cents each)
Five: Why does it have to be here?

These are honest, non-trolling questions. Would someone in favor of this new forum please answer them?

#1 Why? is stating that it would be nice to have a place where people discuss things without being insulting really mental diahhrea?
#2 Sure they are, however, some folks would rather just take part in a decent, straight up conversation in which both sides agree up-front to respect each other. What's wrong with that?
#3 Gestapo? Godwin's law .... much? What makes people fascist for merely saying "It's a little silly for supposedly grown and mature people to act as irresponsibly as some have in the name of their viewpoint" (and that goes for trolls on any subject).
#4 I pay for the right to be here the same as anybody else. Why would you even consider this to be a relevant question? Are you seriously degrading to "Well, if you don't like to be insulted then just go away?" Who says that?
#5 I'm a member here; clans are allowed here. Why would you ask that?

Since "millitant atheists" are excluded from the conversation it does seem like a place where Christians don't really wanna hear any criticism.

There's no criticism of us in the JF forum, again, why would we need that? This forum would be a place were everybody will theoretically be allowed to state their views without being insulted and I'm beginning to see why that would be a problem for some.

Everybody except militant atheists and conspiracy theorists. I care not for the rule violators.

[Snorri1234]

You do realize that this thread/clan idea was started by an atheist.........right?

Actually, he's an agnostic.

Okay, and that further's your point how?

f*ck if I know. Just pointing out some shit. Since he's not a member of GH nor is he a prominent atheist I just wanted to say that his beliefs are fairly unimportant here.

[CrazyAnglican]

f*ck if I know. Just pointing out some shit. Since he's not a member of GH nor is he a prominent atheist I just wanted to say that his beliefs are fairly unimportant here.

How does one become a prominent atheist?

[Snorri1234]

Since "millitant atheists" are excluded from the conversation it does seem like a place where Christians don't really wanna hear any criticism.

There's no criticism of us in the JF forum, again, why would we need that? This forum would be a place were everybody will theoretically be allowed to state their views without being insulted and I'm beginning to see why that would be a problem for some.

f*ck if I know. Maybe you just want to convert agnostics or other people.


The problem is that the OP presupposes that all millitant atheists and conspiracy nuts don't know how to hold a good discussion. It's not about making a civil debate since you exclude millitant atheists and conspiracy nuts (both in case of Juan) so basically it excludes any counter view-point. I've had many a civil debate with both of these groups (even to my suprise, jay) and all the sarcastic shit was done by others. Shit just flies like that. Everybody resorts into sarcastic jabs when they spend too long on the forums. It's only natural.

[Snorri1234]

f*ck if I know. Just pointing out some shit. Since he's not a member of GH nor is he a prominent atheist I just wanted to say that his beliefs are fairly unimportant here.

How does one become a prominent atheist?

By debating believers till the thread is too big.

[Neoteny]

f*ck if I know. Just pointing out some shit. Since he's not a member of GH nor is he a prominent atheist I just wanted to say that his beliefs are fairly unimportant here.

How does one become a prominent atheist?

By debating believers till the thread is too big.

No such thing as too big, which reminds me, I have an evo thread to bump.

[CrazyAnglican]

The problem is that the OP presupposes that all millitant atheists and conspiracy nuts don't know how to hold a good discussion. It's not about making a civil debate since you exclude millitant atheists and conspiracy nuts (both in case of Juan) so basically it excludes any counter view-point.

He's never said that militant atheists and conspiracy theorists can't carry on a civil debate. He's only stated that people who, in his view, don't seem to be interested in carrying on a debate without resorting to abuse of their opponents will be excluded. It's no more exclusive or elitist than any other clan on the website.

I've had many a civil debate with both of these groups (even to my suprise, jay) and all the sarcastic shit was done by others. Shit just flies like that. Everybody resorts into sarcastic jabs when they spend too long on the forums. It's only natural.

So what's wrong with having a place to cool down and actually have to listen and take your opponent apart using the rules of logic rather than resorting to sarcasm and attacks. It's rather like the difference between a streetfight and a boxing match. Neither is really inferior, just different.

f*ck if I know. Just pointing out some shit. Since he's not a member of GH nor is he a prominent atheist I just wanted to say that his beliefs are fairly unimportant here.

How does one become a prominent atheist?

By debating believers till the thread is too big.

And here you guys have been telling us you just wanted to be left alone. It's a badge of honor to stand toe-to-toe with us. Then why not do it without fallacies and abuse? Surely you aren't afraid that your concepts might not stand up to such logical debate.

[HapSmo19]

#4 I pay for the right to be here the same as anybody else. Why would you even consider this to be a relevant question? Are you seriously degrading to "Well, if you don't like to be insulted then just go away?" Who says that?

I'm degrading? Don't be a hypocrit now and start insulting people. I paid the twenty-five bucks too. Oooooh. I payed so I could play more than four games at a time though, not so I can feel entitled to start some special club within a club that has nothing to do with the reason I came here in the first place. To have fun!
I really dont care if you get this forum or not. It's just in my blood to point out how petty some of you "more civil" folk can be. Some poeople just can't live without their cliques I guess.

How many times has a conspiracy theorist hi-jacked one of your non-conspiracy theory threads with a conspiracy theory? Or a militant athiest? My guess would be zero. Somehow, I bet it bothers you just to see those types of threads posted which speaks more of your character than theirs.

"Oh this is just unacceptable. Sometimes I have to go one,... maybe two clicks of the scroll wheel to get to a post I find interesting enough to read and respond to". Boohoo.

Crybabies.

[HapSmo19]

Crybabies

Thats what you should call it

[Neoteny]

He's never said that militant atheists and conspiracy theorists can't carry on a civil debate. He's only stated that people who, in his view, don't seem to be interested in carrying on a debate without resorting to abuse of their opponents will be excluded. It's no more exclusive or elitist than any other clan on the website.

So what's wrong with having a place to cool down and actually have to listen and take your opponent apart using the rules of logic rather than resorting to sarcasm and attacks. It's rather like the difference between a streetfight and a boxing match. Neither is really inferior, just different.

Nothing is wrong with that. It's just that, in his eyes, the following should not be included in a civil discussion forum.

"New forum minus militant atheists, conspiracy theorists, forum rules violaters?"

The implication is that these people are not capable of discussing things civilly, when this is obviously not true. His faculty for gauging the interest of these individuals to participate in such a forum is obviously skewed. I know that I have in the past requested to be a part of a civil discussion, but am, more often than not, snubbed. So I snub back, and am apparently penalized.

[CrazyAnglican]

#4 I pay for the right to be here the same as anybody else. Why would you even consider this to be a relevant question? Are you seriously degrading to "Well, if you don't like to be insulted then just go away?" Who says that?

I'm degrading? Don't be a hypocrit now and start insulting people.

Your question boils down to what I said it boils down to. (I notice you didn't deny it). It isn't hypocrisy to point out how silly it is. Notice I mentioned your argument (are you degrading to this level), but didn't say a word about you personally. If you can't distinguish between your words and yourself; that's not my problem.

I really dont care if you get this forum or not. It's just in my blood to point out how petty some of you "more civil" folk can be. Some poeople just can't live without their cliques I guess.

Funny, I noticed you're not just a member of "registered users" either. I'm not the only one in cliques, eh?

How many times has a conspiracy theorist hi-jacked one of your non-conspiracy theory threads with a conspiracy theory? Or a militant athiest? My guess would be zero.

Your guess would be wrong. What evidence did you base it on, a hunch or a wish perhaps?

Somehow, I bet it bothers you just to see those types of threads posted which speaks more of your character than theirs.

How could you possibly know what bothers me? Have you bothered to ask? It's nice to know that your view of other people's character is based upon such tenuous evidence.

"Oh this is just unacceptable. Sometimes I have to go one,... maybe two clicks of the scroll wheel to get to a post I find interesting enough to read and respond to". Boohoo.

Crybabies.

Thanks for illustrating my point. If in doubt, call names.

[HapSmo19]

You're statement boils down to what I said it boils down to. (I notice you didn't deny it). If you're insulted because I pointed out how silly it is. It isn't hypocrisy to point out when someone is being insulting. Notice I mentioned your argument (are you degrading to this level), but didn't say a word about you personally. If you can't distinguish between your words and yourself; that's not my problem.

I wasn't insulted by your interpretation of my words. And I'm not one that gets insulted by random people over the internet and feels the need to run and hide in a corner. I can still laugh.

Funny, I noticed you're not just a member of "registered users" either. I'm not the only one in cliques, eh?

Well, I am a member of the Godless Heathens Clan of which I consider myself as far on the outside as posible whilst still being on the inside. Just the way I like it. And I joined the Layer Battle Arena just to watch the fun those people have with photoshop. I have yet to post there.

How could you possibly know what bothers me? Have you bothered to ask? It's nice to know that your view of other people's character is based upon such tenuous evidence.

OK. What bothers you? I absolutely must know and I think I'm supposed to care too.

[protectedbygold]

Obviously this idea has caused some great interest. The poll shows that most people who've responded are in favor of this. Twill just pm'd me and it shouldn't be too long before we get some new information. I think this will be a good experience as we're all learning things from other members. To those who have been patiently waiting, just a little while longer.

[john9blue]

This is a great idea. Count me in.

So, I'm assuming that you will skim through people's posting history before accepting them? It looks like this thread itself can be used as a basis for rejection.

[Skittles!]

This "clan" looks like a utopia for forum goers. It's not going to work. A utopia where everyone will respect and be nice to everyone. People are going to clog up with their beliefs, e.g. if a thread about if Jesus' divinity was true, then most probably a Christian that is crazy [e.g. Dangerboy] will say "nonono, that's not right! The bible states that Jesus is divine, the son of God!".

Militant atheists? Are you serious? A militant atheist is no different to a very right-wing Christian, or a crazy conspiracy theorist, except the different beliefs. That is just so.. so.. agh, I can't even think of a word to say how bloody ridiculous it is! To say a militant atheist, or a conspiracy theorist, or someone that "violates forum rules" is not allowed in, because they don't share the same viewpoints as someone else, is bullshit.

There will be sparks, and there will be moments where someone will start accusing another person of hitting their pressure spots of viewpoints. There is no basis of what the rules are, except "be nice", which is pretty impossible with 64 + people wanting in. There is no basis what the line is, which many will step over just because of differing viewpoints.

It's doomed to fail.

[Neoteny]

This is a great idea. Count me in.

So, I'm assuming that you will skim through people's posting history before accepting them? It looks like this thread itself can be used as a basis for rejection.

Surely. Rejection. Nice.

[Skittles!]

This is a great idea. Count me in.

So, I'm assuming that you will skim through people's posting history before accepting them? It looks like this thread itself can be used as a basis for rejection.

Hey dude, that hurt my viewpoint! I think you deserve a strike!

[luns101]

This "clan" looks like a utopia for forum goers. It's not going to work. A utopia where everyone will respect and be nice to everyone. People are going to clog up with their beliefs, e.g. if a thread about if Jesus' divinity was true, then most probably a Christian that is crazy [e.g. Dangerboy] will say "nonono, that's not right! The bible states that Jesus is divine, the son of God!".

Militant atheists? Are you serious? A militant atheist is no different to a very right-wing Christian, or a crazy conspiracy theorist, except the different beliefs. That is just so.. so.. agh, I can't even think of a word to say how bloody ridiculous it is! To say a militant atheist, or a conspiracy theorist, or someone that "violates forum rules" is not allowed in, because they don't share the same viewpoints as someone else, is bullshit.

There will be sparks, and there will be moments where someone will start accusing another person of hitting their pressure spots of viewpoints. There is no basis of what the rules are, except "be nice", which is pretty impossible with 64 + people wanting in. There is no basis what the line is, which many will step over just because of differing viewpoints.

It's doomed to fail.

Even if this were true, Skittles...it's the people who are interested in at least attempting to make it work that will either make it a success or have it fail. It's not harming one atheist here one little bit. None of them are being hurt...unless you count hurt feelings.

You and I have had some pretty fun laughs on these forums, but the majority of times it has been anything but civil when directed towards people such as myself. When you start categorizing everyone who believes in God as a nutjob (not saying you've done that personally) it gets a bit tiresome and people just don't want to engage in it anymore. It's sad because you end up alienating yourself from people who you might have some other things in common with. I've said this before, but one of my very best buds was the guy who introduced me to this site (Leatnic), an atheist. We almost always discuss things like God's existence, the best form of govt., evolution, or how the Cubs will choke in the playoffs. But he's never engaged in any name calling like people on these forums.

It's perfectly understandable that certain people...whether they be Christian, Mormon, agnostic, atheist, or whatever...to want to have a place where they can hear out the other person without being called a sinner, bigot, or lemming (or an orange-haired Australian gigolo)

Actually, I was hoping you would be one of the people invited into this thing. We'll see.

[waseemalim]

who's highest ranked member of Jesus Freaks?

I fail to understand why these guys get so bothered with stuff said on a freaking online forum. Just keep posting and ignore posts that doesnt fit your taste. Really guys, just chill. If your belief is strong enough, it should be able to withstand sarcasm.

Just as a matter of disclosure, I am not an atheist/conspiracy theorist/rule breaker.

[mpjh]

Hey, I have seen two other user groups created while you all are waiting for the magical, mystical, civil discussion group. I don't think it is real or there must be some problem with its proposed exclusion rules.

[Skittles!]

Even if this were true, Skittles...it's the people who are interested in at least attempting to make it work that will either make it a success or have it fail. It's not harming one atheist here one little bit. None of them are being hurt...unless you count hurt feelings.

You and I have had some pretty fun laughs on these forums, but the majority of times it has been anything but civil when directed towards people such as myself. When you start categorizing everyone who believes in God as a nutjob (not saying you've done that personally) it gets a bit tiresome and people just don't want to engage in it anymore. It's sad because you end up alienating yourself from people who you might have some other things in common with. I've said this before, but one of my very best buds was the guy who introduced me to this site (Leatnic), an atheist. We almost always discuss things like God's existence, the best form of govt., evolution, or how the Cubs will choke in the playoffs. But he's never engaged in any name calling like people on these forums.

It's perfectly understandable that certain people...whether they be Christian, Mormon, agnostic, atheist, or whatever...to want to have a place where they can hear out the other person without being called a sinner, bigot, or lemming (or an orange-haired Australian gigolo)

Actually, I was hoping you would be one of the people invited into this thing. We'll see.

I was thinking of saying yes to join it, but to me, it seems like an idle hope. People will get kicked out because they hurt someone's beliefs because everyone has different beliefs. Yes, you can respect their beliefs, but there is always the feeling of something contending with your own which will annoy you. However small it big it shall be.

I see where some people here that are willing to join come from, with the current Chatterbox [not saying it's bad, it just gets boring with the same thing over and over. Hard to come out of that]. It would be fun to see threads not about evolution, or creationism, or American politics, or conspiracy theories. But you cannot just cut them [them being conspiracy theorists] out of a whole forum because it annoys you. Same as militant atheists [I don't have anything wrong with militant atheists, nor fundamentalist religious peoples], and people who don't always follow forum rules. Always, always, one will get into this Civil discussion group, and then you will have to get them out. It'll be a game like that. BUT, it won't be a game when a group of elected people [or something] are chosen to skim through posts of someone wishing to join.

And, what does this thing actually do? Civil discussion, okay. BUT, what are the rules? How many rules? Will I be eligible to join? Who decides the rules? WHY are there rules?

Now, I seem like a turn-coat, but my original thought was to join this cause it would be good to debate something new, e.g. why did religion go from polytheistic to monotheistic? Or something else. Whatever. I may give it a try, but I still think this may be a game to some people. I doubt I would of been invited, I'm probably seen as a sarcastic forum goer who goes way off topic, thus breaking forum rules.

[Juan_Bottom]

The very fact that people were denied entry gives this thing a big FAIL stamp, doesn't it?

[Skittles!]

The very fact that people were denied entry gives this thing a big FAIL stamp, doesn't it?

I think so.