CC just locked the latest thread on "cheating" by Scott-Land.
There have been more than one such complaints. The latest was locked, almost instantly, as we can't have that, or can we?
This post says again, what MANY have said, which is that the scoring and ranking system on CC sucks. It is BASED UPON satisfying the quirks and insecurities of morons like Scott_Land and the MANY cheats who enable them.
It's NOT a question of DOES Scott_Land cheat, of course Scott-Land cheats.
It is a question of how CC enables that.
The scoring and ranking system at CC is DESIGNED to enable such cheating.
If you can count, if you are capable of basic math, you know this. If you are a "landian" well, more's the pity.
Again I ask, WHY was the latest thread locked after just 13 posts, the last being the post which locked it?
jpliberty wrote:CC just locked the latest thread on "cheating" by Scott-Land.
There have been more than one such complaints. The latest was locked, almost instantly, as we can't have that, or can we?
This post says again, what MANY have said, which is that the scoring and ranking system on CC sucks. It is BASED UPON satisfying the quirks and insecurities of morons like Scott_Land and the MANY cheats who enable them.
It's NOT a question of DOES Scott_Land cheat, of course Scott-Land cheats.
It is a question of how CC enables that.
The scoring and ranking system at CC is DESIGNED to enable such cheating.
If you can count, if you are capable of basic math, you know this. If you are a "landian" well, more's the pity.
Again I ask, WHY was the latest thread locked after just 13 posts, the last being the post which locked it?
WHY not just change the system?
so...why didn't u mention HOW he cheats...just saying he cheats isn't good enough
2008-10-15 03:03:59 - pasberg: Zsp is really good in manipulating you guys doing his work.
22:18:13 ‹dakky21› but i MUST moderate this dead chat 22:18:41 ‹zsp› ^you just gave me a new sig.
The question begs to be asked and maybe scott-lands crew care to try and wipe off some of the mud stuck on the ex-conqueror's badge!
Out of all the conqueror's why is it that everyone thinks scott-land cheated his way to the top? And before you say, jealously or stuff. If thats the case why is this jealously only directed towards scott-land and not other conqueror's?
hulmey wrote:The question begs to be asked and maybe scott-lands crew care to try and wipe off some of the mud stuck on the ex-conqueror's badge!
Out of all the conqueror's why is it that everyone thinks scott-land cheated his way to the top? And before you say, jealously or stuff. If thats the case why is this jealously only directed towards scott-land and not other conqueror's?
he got there by being the best
-tig
"there is no avoiding war, it can only be postponed to the advantage of your enemy" NM, 1502
Pretty much every Conqueror gets accused of cheating or manipulating the system to get there.
Though i do not think you have to cheat, I do think you have to manipulate the system to get such a high score. Whether it be: 1v1's against new players who generally deadbeat; Freestyle; subtle orchestration of players around you; Sneaky game choice or..... etc etc.
There have been many solutions found in the arms race but to make it to such a high score you have to be one of the very best players and also be willing to commit absolute concentration for a prolonged period.
jiminski wrote:Pretty much every Conqueror gets accused of cheating or manipulating the system to get there.
Though i do not think you have to cheat, I do think you have to manipulate the system to get such a high score. Whether it be: 1v1's against new players who generally deadbeat; Freestyle; subtle orchestration of players around you; Sneaky game choice or..... etc etc.
There have been many solutions found in the arms race but to make it to such a high score you have to be one of the very best players and also be willing to commit absolute concentration for a prolonged period.
how is fs manipulating the system, so you get there faster than team games...
im a fan of both, just curious on your pov as i respect it.
-tig
"there is no avoiding war, it can only be postponed to the advantage of your enemy" NM, 1502
actually, basic math and logic tells you that scoring has nothing to do with weather a person will cheat or not. And basic math wont be enough to make any determinations in scottlands games. Percentages of wins on speedfreestyle mean nothing in that context. Im just glad I didnt play scott 300 times, because Im pretty sure my win rate would have been lower than bruces.
Now Im not saying theres no chance that bruce wasnt even favoring him, im merely suggesting that the math doesnt prove anything either way. Anymore than looking at the 1 out of 16 wins or so i have with comic boy in escalating games, would suggest im favoring him to win. Using that example just shows you are jumping to conclusions, because Ive watched that case since it started, and anyone that can definitively say they know what happened is just deluding themselves. If you approach it from either end, you can make a decision and back it up fully...which of course was why it was locked. In the end, only Bruce knows if he was favoring Scott, which is the absolute worst that could even possibly have happened in that situation. Its a matter of trusting bruce's word. Some will, some wont. But anyone who thinks they can definitively say there was obvious cheating in those games, especially on the part of scottland himself, simply doesnt understand the 8 person freestyle speed games. Ignoring the subtleties on those, which you are certainly doing, is easy, but doesnt make it right.
I could easily write 3 pages of the possible ways those games could have played out and ended up with those results. The same way you can look through my games, and find that there are some players I beat every time. and others I lose to every time...and thats on just regular games, where speed and skill dont necessarily affect the outcome as they do in speed escalating games. Anyone who doesnt think scott can kill someone in that many games is deluding themselves. Similarly, anyone who doesnt recognize the fact that obviously bruce could have been favoring him, is also deluding themselves. Its a matter of trust, as is any case this complex.
Liberty, Im sorry you dont live in the nice simple to label world that your intellect obviously needs to makes sense of everything nice and neatly, but the fact of the matter is, as many who know this site in and out, like myself, and others have told you time and time again, your assumptions are not correct, and in some cases wildly wrong. Your passion for pointing them out, and your zeal to post them over and over makes them no more correct.
The scoring system doesnt affect cheating in any way. Cheaters cheat. Non cheaters dont.
As far as changing it, any kind of flat system would demolish and demoralize the site. The scores wouldnt be at 5000, theyd be at 50000. The scoring system is just fine. A separate scoreboard for other types of games would enhance it, but changing the underlying formula, would be an absolute disaster.
Youre simply jumping to conclusions. Your not fully analyzing all of the data thats right in front of you, and personally, I think your just grandstanding for fun, and are glossing over the details of your arguments, for a nice quick post, thats empty, and sometimes just wrong. I truly hope your advice in your political job is more thought through for all of our sakes.
Last edited by AAFitz on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm Spanking Monkey now....err...I mean I'm a Spanking Monkey now...that shoots milk Too much. I know.
jiminski wrote:Pretty much every Conqueror gets accused of cheating or manipulating the system to get there.
Though i do not think you have to cheat, I do think you have to manipulate the system to get such a high score. Whether it be: 1v1's against new players who generally deadbeat; Freestyle; subtle orchestration of players around you; Sneaky game choice or..... etc etc.
There have been many solutions found in the arms race but to make it to such a high score you have to be one of the very best players and also be willing to commit absolute concentration for a prolonged period.
how is fs manipulating the system, so you get there faster than team games...
im a fan of both, just curious on your pov as i respect it.
-tig
well this is where the debate enters Tig!
All the methods are legal so how is it manipulation? The point is if it were illegal we would just call it cheating. (heheh words of wisdom jim!)
What i mean is that there are methods and we all know them, which are legal but 'shady' - there lies the judgement.
In order to make it to such a massive relative score, with so few opponents giving close to reciprocal points based on equal win/loss ratio. Players have to find ways to guard and reap points. It becomes impossible to reach and maintain that score with talent alone!
i think most of the guys who reach the conqueror spot would tell you (if they were being completely honest) that they discovered a method which lost them the least points in order to keep ahead of the increasingly biased point handicap. That one day they decided to play almost exclusively to maintain the points..
to do that you need a preposterously impressive win rate which you could not hope to uphold without a careful shepherding of game choice etc. it's like being an athlete and not eating crisps, drinking wine or having sex on race day.
Is that manipulation? well it is accepting the limitations of the system (stacked severely against high scores) and tailoring behaviour with absolute single-mindedness to that goal.
Manipulation .. it really depends how you look at it and exactly what technique was used. (i would say for example; finding games you know will fill with new players who will deadbeat, would have to fall under the heading of cynical manipulation.)
but however they got there, the goal is to limit point loss at all costs. Whatever you say about any conqueror, one thing is for sure; all of the techniques must be employed with unyielding focus.
Its also simply a "choice" to go for conquerer... this place isnt made up of 10000 players trying to get the conquerers badge, and failing...The score is just the number of points a person has at any given time, and viewed relatively.
to borrow from jimi's example...most of us are out jogging, maybe with an occasional windsprint. And we dont give father of the year to someone who won 5 gold medals in the olympics... the medals mean something completely different, as does the score and thats intrinsically clear to most people.
Specializing in one area, and achieving the top score, through any legal means, is not manipulation. Scott can even use steroids for his fingerspeed if he wants...since it isnt banned by CC.
--I think banning illegal substances by CC would result in a rather noticeable drop in players
I'm Spanking Monkey now....err...I mean I'm a Spanking Monkey now...that shoots milk Too much. I know.
AAFitz wrote:Its also simply a "choice" to go for conquerer... this place isnt made up of 10000 players trying to get the conquerers badge, and failing...The score is just the number of points a person has at any given time, and viewed relatively.
to borrow from jimi's example...most of us are out jogging, maybe with an occasional windsprint. And we dont give father of the year to someone who won 5 gold medals in the olympics... the medals mean something completely different, as does the score and thats intrinsically clear to most people.
Specializing in one area, and achieving the top score, through any legal means, is not manipulation. Scott can even use steroids for his fingerspeed if he wants...since it isnt banned by CC.
--I think banning illegal substances by CC would result in a rather noticeable drop in players
excellent Fitzy... whenever i need a slightly incorrect summary of what i just said, i can always count on you. only kidding mate .. keep farming those noobs!
lol.. as far as the noobs.. i admit, i am playing against mostly colonels and majors right now, not to mention the few stars and ample brigs...but I try not to call them noobs unless they deserve it
noob
I'm Spanking Monkey now....err...I mean I'm a Spanking Monkey now...that shoots milk Too much. I know.
AAFitz wrote:lol.. as far as the noobs.. i admit, i am playing against mostly colonels and majors right now, not to mention the few stars and ample brigs...but I try not to call them noobs unless they deserve it
noob
hahah, thank you sir! i'll be over for some of those points you are redistributing shortly.
hulmey wrote:The question begs to be asked and maybe scott-lands crew care to try and wipe off some of the mud stuck on the ex-conqueror's badge!
Out of all the conqueror's why is it that everyone thinks scott-land cheated his way to the top? And before you say, jealously or stuff. If thats the case why is this jealously only directed towards scott-land and not other conqueror's?
Firstly there is no mud because he has been investigated and cleared, secondly I doubt that many will agree with you that a few disgruntled wanabees constitute ' everyone ' . Certain people are making accusations simply to get back at Scott for rubbing them up the wrong way, the only thing he is guilty of is shooting off his mouth too much and he is the first to admit to that. There has never been one shred of evidence against Scott for cheating and the little people know it, like all cowards they cannot beat him face to face so they attempt to stab him in the back.
If he, or anyone, is "cheating" I wish the hell they'd let me in on how they're doing it! I've watched my rank plummet recently, with no indication of reprise.
One thing I will say though is that when I play some high-ranked players it seems they really get the benefit of amazing dice. I'm honestly wondering if there's some kind of hacks being used on this site, and if anyone can enlighten me on this I'm really curious.
i keep seeing scott-land cheating threads pop up, and some folks seem to be rather certain of it. ive played scott-land a ton of times, and never took notice of anything other than exemplary play(and an angry mouth sometimes ) so i pose this question.
do any of the people making these claims have any reliable proof? seems ridiculous to keep bringing it up without new evidence.
Elijah S wrote:If he, or anyone, is "cheating" I wish the hell they'd let me in on how they're doing it! I've watched my rank plummet recently, with no indication of reprise.
One thing I will say though is that when I play some high-ranked players it seems they really get the benefit of amazing dice. I'm honestly wondering if there's some kind of hacks being used on this site, and if anyone can enlighten me on this I'm really curious.
Dice hacking is common amongst the senior ranks, I am surprised you were not aware of this. My system mistakenly deleted my hacking program recently and I promptly lost 400 points in the process before I could organise another patch through my contacts.
Due to current economic conditions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off
) so i pose this question.
