We're not #1!

[pimpdave]

[MeDeFe]

Oooh, look! It's an argument!

[TheProwler]

As you can see, a specific subject, in which the religious beliefs (fundamentalist Christianity) of many Americans will put them at a disadvantage, was used.

So your excuse for americans appearing stupid regarding science is saying that they are stupid?


The fact that so many Americans still believe evolution is false is testament to their ignorance of science.

Do you seriously not understand that asking a single question, a question that can be a sensitive issue with fundamentalist Christians, then taking the results of the answers to that single question and using them to make a broad statement about "Scientific Literacy" is severely flawed?

I understand that it is flawed. However, the very fact that the belief in creationism is so widespread in the US is testament to a severe lack of knowledge on particular scientific subjects. If your religious beliefs undermine your knowledge of science, isn't that evidence of bad "scientific literacy"(whatever that means)?

Sure, the study is flawed and a better one should be conducted, but I doubt it will change much in the rankings. Evolution is a major scientific thing and I don't see many other fields where Americans would suddenly be experts and far surpass the other countries on the list.

The bottom line is that I am skeptical of any statistics that are just presented without a detailed explanation of how the results were determined. And the vast majority of the time, "scientific" studies are flawed. That is a fact. Studies have proved it.

Ofcourse, but this was just a funny picture taking a jab at the american idea that they are the most advanced and best nation in the world. These statistics are for a great deal from the Human Development index and heavily researched. It leaves out quite a few things where the US is better, but that's not the idea behind the picture.

So you understand that the study is flawed, but you think the USA is still not number 1 in everything. In fact, they are quite weak in many things. Then we can agree.

The USA provides relief to so many of the suffering countries in the world. They provide protection for so many other countries in the world. If they spent more time worrying about themselves and less worrying about the well-being of the world in general, I'm sure they could fix a lot of their own problems. I'm just not so sure we would all be around (i.e. alive) to talk about it.

[animorpherv1]

You need to put Canada on it.

[Minister Masket]

How the hell do you measure "lack of corruption"?

Maybe each country gets a point whenever the government spokesperson says "no comment".

[luns101]

man iceland must be great, it got all those first place spots... i wonder whether they'd place place first on that 'most bankrupt country' list, too?

No, but they do rank #1 in the government corruption category

that's a good thing by the way if you go to the bottom of the rankings and read how the scoring is done.

Ya, places like Chad and Kenya and Congo have great governments... Lets all move there!

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not. The fact that they're ranked #1 actually means the citizens of the country have great confidence in their government there. It's a good thing (which was explained at the bottom of the page)

[Snorri1234]

So you understand that the study is flawed, but you think the USA is still not number 1 in everything. In fact, they are quite weak in many things. Then we can agree.

well yeah, I just thougth that your point was that it was all bullshit.

The USA provides relief to so many of the suffering countries in the world. They provide protection for so many other countries in the world. If they spent more time worrying about themselves and less worrying about the well-being of the world in general, I'm sure they could fix a lot of their own problems. I'm just not so sure we would all be around (i.e. alive) to talk about it.

Most european countries provide more relief (as a percentage of the GDP) than the USA. The problem is not that the USA spends money on helping out other countries, it's that they are so bad at fixing their own country. It's the only first world country that still has solely private healthcare for gods sake! They worry enough about themselves, it's just that they're only worrying and not doing anything about it.

[TheProwler]

So you understand that the study is flawed, but you think the USA is still not number 1 in everything. In fact, they are quite weak in many things. Then we can agree.

well yeah, I just thougth that your point was that it was all bullshit.

The USA provides relief to so many of the suffering countries in the world. They provide protection for so many other countries in the world. If they spent more time worrying about themselves and less worrying about the well-being of the world in general, I'm sure they could fix a lot of their own problems. I'm just not so sure we would all be around (i.e. alive) to talk about it.

Most european countries provide more relief (as a percentage of the GDP) than the USA. The problem is not that the USA spends money on helping out other countries, it's that they are so bad at fixing their own country. It's the only first world country that still has solely private healthcare for gods sake! They worry enough about themselves, it's just that they're only worrying and not doing anything about it.

Bashing the USA is just a popular theme and people post these charts and statistics and don't really look into them to know if they are valid.

Heck, the guy that started this thread said he just posted it after it was e-mailed to him. He had no idea where the rankings came from or if they were even based on actual research. But right away everyone jumps on it like it is factual.

I have no idea if you are right about most European countries providing more relief than the USA. I'd like to see those numbers. Including all European countries, not just a select few.

You know, there are a lot of Americans here. Why don't we skip the propaganda and the media and get the reports from the real American people. What are your personal complaints? Do you live in poverty? Do you not have opportunities? Do you own a house? A car? Were you able to get an education? Are you sick and can't get medical treatment? Lets hear from all the Americans here. Not just the ones with complaints. Lets get some feedback from real Americans.

The last time I was in America was this past summer. I spent some time in New York City and in some towns up along Long Island. In general, I found people to be quite friendly and happy. But I don't actually live there.

I'd really like to hear what the real Americans have to say about their own lives. Not how they think about the America that is portrayed on TV and on the Internet. How has your own life been, as an American?

[MeDeFe]

Prowler, the guy who made the thread also has an eagle, the US flag and the letters "USMC" in his avatar, according to his profile he's playing from the US. I don't think he's particularly prone to US-bashing for its own sake.

[Hologram]

Indeed, I am just annoyed by all the people who like to say that America is all that and a bag of potatoes. Believe it or not, we do have our shortcomings, and lots of them.


Hell, part of the reason I want to go into the military is so I can have the chance of picking up some serious rank and be able to work to change the overall picture from the inside. And hell, maybe if I get bored once I retire to Pacific City I might just take up politics.


That being said: Hologram for prez 2040!

[TheProwler]

Prowler, the guy who made the thread also has an eagle, the US flag and the letters "USMC" in his avatar, according to his profile he's playing from the US. I don't think he's particularly prone to US-bashing for its own sake.

He did nothing to verify the accuracy of the charts that he posted. And the charts were intended to show what a horrible place the USA is.

Indeed, I am just annoyed by all the people who like to say that America is all that and a bag of potatoes. Believe it or not, we do have our shortcomings, and lots of them.

From what I've read, there are not many people here that say "America is all that and a bag of potatoes".

Quite the opposite.

[spurgistan]

Prowler, the guy who made the thread also has an eagle, the US flag and the letters "USMC" in his avatar, according to his profile he's playing from the US. I don't think he's particularly prone to US-bashing for its own sake.

He did nothing to verify the accuracy of the charts that he posted. And the charts were intended to show what a horrible place the USA is.

Indeed, I am just annoyed by all the people who like to say that America is all that and a bag of potatoes. Believe it or not, we do have our shortcomings, and lots of them.

From what I've read, there are not many people here that say "America is all that and a bag of potatoes".

Quite the opposite.

Err, he's not talking about here. That other 305 million people in the ole US of A who are blissfully ignorant of browser-based multiplayer world domination gaming, there's plenty of people whose opinion of the United States is almost blissfully unaware that we don't inherently do absolutely everything better than anybody on Earth, ever.

[TheProwler]

Err, he's not talking about here. That other 305 million people in the ole US of A who are blissfully ignorant of browser-based multiplayer world domination gaming, there's plenty of people whose opinion of the United States is almost blissfully unaware that we don't inherently do absolutely everything better than anybody on Earth, ever.

Err, if he's not talking about here, then why's he posting about it here? What good would it do to talk about it here? To fuel the America-hating fires that seem to be burning in so many people's minds here?

To get a bunch of like-minded people together and shout out a bunch of shared opinions seems like a waste of time. Almost like an intellectual circle jerk. Or at least a philosophical circle jerk. Without the orgasm.

The tone here is often anti-America.

I think there are a lot of Americans who love America. I do not think there are many Americans (as a percentage) who are blissfully unaware of its problems as you describe. Don't you think there must be a good sample of random Americans right here in this forum? How many Americans here think America can do no wrong? Where are they? Are they real?

[OnlyAmbrose]

I'm not too terribly surprised... most of the nations at the top of the lists (with VERY few exceptions) play little role on the world stage. America is in an imperialist phase - it's difficult to maintain a transparent democracy with high quality institutions elsewhere when we're so focused on other developing other nations, national security, and the military.

I don't imagine Iceland has much to worry about in the way of foreign occupations and interests and the like.

[MeDeFe]

But Finland has (just check a map), and they also rank pretty high up.

[solace19k]

Hmmm why bash a country that is comprised mostly (at one time or another) of immigrants from other countries?

I think the greatest president in our generation once said that the way to measure a country is to look at how many people want in, as opposed to how many people want out.

Your home is your home, of course you will defend it. There are so many different factors that have contributed to the global economic degradation its impossible to point the blame on any one thing. The bottom line is, if the United States sinks ... you will all sink with us.

Even a country like Iraq will cause a ripple in the world if it collapses, why do you think we have invested so much in such a small place?

[pimpdave]

Even a country like Iraq will cause a ripple in the world if it collapses, why do you think we have invested so much in such a small place?

Cause we're junkies, and they've got our fix.

Think about it. We've blown all of our money on it and we've alienated most of our friends... just like a junky.

[Megadeth666]

Hmmm why bash a country that is comprised mostly (at one time or another) of immigrants from other countries?

I think the greatest president in our generation once said that the way to measure a country is to look at how many people want in, as opposed to how many people want out.

Just recently(still trying to look for the article) the latest flood of immigrants wanting to live in the USA were all sent to Canada, given a 1-way ticket to Detroit, than bused over to Windsor

[TheProwler]

Hmmm, immigration is another expense that the USA (and Canada) have to deal with.

In Canada, most immigrants need to go to school to learn our language(s). They need social assistance because they do not have money and they are not skilled (again, I am saying most) and therefore can't obtain a good job. The government pays them to get educated. For years, they are a financial burden on the government and the citizens. Not to mention the fact that immigrants are very often a burden on our criminal system.

Does the USA or Canada get a pat on the back for opening their doors to refuges and the downtrodden of foreign nations?

Nah, lets just make a chart that shows what bad places they are to live.

[solace19k]

Nah man you know we won't get a pat on the back for anything we do for anyone.

I know this is a very basic but simple point but check it out.

America is always going to be judged for anything it does because its just a fun thing to do i guess. Nevermind the fact that we have pretty much passed most countries that are 10000 years ahead of us. Nevermind in a little under 300 years we have established a successful (aruged) government, an economy that is a major player in the global market, bailed the europeans out from facisim, provided for its people and taken in the hordes of hopefulls from other countries. All while recovering from a great depression and still keeping its government intact (which in itself is a feat). The "downfall" of America began when we became soft and decided that we would let the world judge who we are. When is the last major invention came from effin' Pakistan? As a matter of fact, that part of the world is still resorting to blowing each other up. My point is in 300 years we have done alot and became a major spectacle and fell under the scrutiny of the world. Now even its own people are starting to divide because we have no solid set of ethics or values. The only problem with America that I see is that humanity is allowed to take advantage of its own freedoms and that everyone wants a peice of the pie. Americans need to unite under one common goal and stop watching the freaking reality shows and start showing the world that we are still the great nation that has contributed so much to it.


....whew.... i need a smoke

[pimpdave]

Americans need to unite under one common goal and stop watching the freaking reality shows and start showing the world that we are still the great nation that has contributed so much to it.

And exactly how are we accomplishing that in Iraq again?

You never responded to my junky comment. Seems to me that the best thing we could do in the Middle East is to STOP MAKING THEM RICH ON OUR ADDICTION.

It's just like drugs on the street. Dealers wouldn't be able to buy guns with which to commit awful crimes if people weren't GIVING THEM THE MONEY TO DO SO.

[clapper011]

uh pimp...try not to antagonize the soldiers huh!?

[solace19k]

Americans need to unite under one common goal and stop watching the freaking reality shows and start showing the world that we are still the great nation that has contributed so much to it.

And exactly how are we accomplishing that in Iraq again?

You never responded to my junky comment. Seems to me that the best thing we could do in the Middle East is to STOP MAKING THEM RICH ON OUR ADDICTION.

It's just like drugs on the street. Dealers wouldn't be able to buy guns with which to commit awful crimes if people weren't GIVING THEM THE MONEY TO DO SO.

I actually thought you were being sarcastic but ok:
I'm not going to tell you that attacking Iraq was a great idea, nor will I comment on what I really think about it. I will say however, that our country acted on a threat that it saw as a global and economic threat. It acted based on past and present issues that are still on going.
Ever noticed that Iraq and Afganistan are borders to Iran? Also ever noticed that another country that is a major supporter of this criminal mentality also borders Afganistan? (Pakistan) The moment was taken to act on this because no one else was willing to do it.
Do we have an economic agenda there? Of course we do! The reason we are still there wasting so much money is because the war is now in their yard, not ours. I don't really agree that we are completely funding this criminal mindset by being there. Iran has that covered.
I am saddened by the loss of so much, and I am honored by the sacrifice made by so many.
If you relate the good things that we have tried to accomplish and the innocent lives we have protected to something relative to a drug addicts behavior then I am sorry. There isn't a stat
that shows how many lives we have saved by being there. Or how many terrorist attacks we have diverted by being there. That is because one hasn't happened here since then. How much is that worth to you?

[King_Herpes]

uh pimp...try not to antagonize the soldiers huh!?

Are you talking about the purple helmeted soldier of love?

[pimpdave]

solace19k,

I really wanted to respond to your post in some detail right now, but I have to run. Thanks for actually engaging me. Clapper011, I'm not trying to antagonize the soldiers, and I apologize if I came across that way.

solace19k, I think you'll be surprised by how I respond. I'm impressed with how you're thinking it all through, and want to add to that dialogue. Unfortunately, it may be several hours before I can do so. Keep your head down, and keep up the great work.

Sincerely,

pimpdave