Moderator: Community Team
Good point. But you will excuse me if I tell you that the Constitutionalists approach to foreign is to not do what our republicrat counterparts have been doing for the last 60 yearsTimminz wrote:Yeah! The Americans always keep their nose out of other countries' business. Why can't the rest of the world do the same?captain.crazy wrote:You aren't even American? How about you STFU about American politics? Its none of your business how we govern ourselves.
Well duh. But what else would I argue? Should I back down from any debate simply because I am not american?captain.crazy wrote: You aren't even American? How about you STFU about American politics? Its none of your business how we govern ourselves.
Snorri1234 wrote:Well duh. But what else would I argue? Should I back down from any debate simply because I am not american?captain.crazy wrote: You aren't even American? How about you STFU about American politics? Its none of your business how we govern ourselves.
Like i've said before, i'm neither Conservative or Liberal, but i do find this "shuddupifyoudon'tlikeAmurka" typical of Conservatives, and i find it ignorant. We can always benefit from listening to folks from other countries as to our problems. A little objectivity perhaps?captain.crazy wrote:
You aren't even American? How about you STFU about American politics? Its none of your business how we govern ourselves.
I think he means that you shouldn't just ignore what people say because they're from a different country. Sure, you have the right to do what you damn well please, and hell I think the same about my country. But that doesn't mean I don't listen to people from other countries.captain.crazy wrote:Sure! I can't make him shut up... I was only playing anyway!
Like ships for bases.Snorri1234 wrote:Europe wouldn't be as far as it is now if we hadn't taken a few cues from the US.
And baconnaiseJuan_Bottom wrote:Like ships for bases.Snorri1234 wrote:Europe wouldn't be as far as it is now if we hadn't taken a few cues from the US.
And Madonna (please keep her)xelabale wrote:And baconnaiseJuan_Bottom wrote:Like ships for bases.Snorri1234 wrote:Europe wouldn't be as far as it is now if we hadn't taken a few cues from the US.
And the Daily show
Gay if you do and gay if you don't.b.k. barunt wrote:If you don't like Madonna u r teh gay.
Honibaz
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
The more recent figures say 1 in 10 Americans is without coverage they need.thegreekdog wrote: Tiny percentage? As far as I know, 6 million Americans do not have health insurance... divde that by 250 million Americans - 98% of people in the United States have health insurance. Of those 2% that do not have health insurance, they all have access to free healthcare, albeit not preventative healthcare. Additionally, my wife has serious headache problems; she has never been denied a medical claim. I don't think popular movies are a basis for saying that standard business practice is to deny medical claims since my wife and I, and no one we know, have never been denied a medical claim.
Seriously, how sick is this?PLAYER57832 wrote:The more recent figures say 1 in 10 Americans is without coverage they need.thegreekdog wrote: Tiny percentage? As far as I know, 6 million Americans do not have health insurance... divde that by 250 million Americans - 98% of people in the United States have health insurance. Of those 2% that do not have health insurance, they all have access to free healthcare, albeit not preventative healthcare. Additionally, my wife has serious headache problems; she has never been denied a medical claim. I don't think popular movies are a basis for saying that standard business practice is to deny medical claims since my wife and I, and no one we know, have never been denied a medical claim.
But as for the "no one I know has every been denied a medical claim", you have not met many people. particularly those who deal with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. and DO NOTE, they have multiple tiers of insurance. If you happen to work for the government and get the highmark plan, then you can get pretty much anything you need .. up until you reach that "lifetime maximum".. and while $250,000 sounds pretty high when you are 25 (my age when I had that coverage and those limits), it is a drop for anyone in a very serious accident, with cancer, diabetes or any number of other serious illnesses.
My husband's policy downgraded every year until the year my son was born, LITERALLY every claim I made was denied, except for my well pregnency visits (laws on those are a lot stricter). The reasons always varied ... the wrong code, it was a duplicate procedure, it was a procedure not covered, it was not pre-authorized.. .you name it, they trotted out the excuse. It took me a month of letters and phone calls MINIMUM for EACH claim before they could resolve it.
A couple of years later, and the company changed insurance again, on Dec 1. Details were not even given out to employees until January -- everyone was told it would be "the same". So, we took our son to a specialist for some tests and found ourselves with over $1000 in bills. When he took ill in January and had to be hospitalized in isolation (at 2 months), we wound up with over$4000 in bills and came very, very close to losing our house WITH INSURANCE!
So... have your opinion, but if you want to make all these claims about how wonderful our insurance is, look into it a bit more.
Wait a minute! Since when does the US have 250 million citizens?Tiny percentage? As far as I know, 6 million Americans do not have health insurance... divde that by 250 million Americans
Apparently we have 306 million (or thereabouts).Snorri1234 wrote:HEY GUYS!Wait a minute! Since when does the US have 250 million citizens?Tiny percentage? As far as I know, 6 million Americans do not have health insurance... divde that by 250 million Americans
capitalistbitch wrote:Yeah, this is a first post, prolly won't be the last as I kinda like these sorts of games, but this particular thread had me a bit fired up.
We all agree that people are selfish a**holes, yeah?
Ok. So here's the thing. ALL people are selfish. It's just the way it is.
People may be selfish but that doesn't have to harm other people by definition. If I feel good about working for an NGO that is essentially a selfish motive, yet (and this is a topic for another thread so don't latch on to this here!!) NGO's mostly help people.
Even people talking about being morally bankrupt if you won't fulfill your end of the contract. . . you know what? You're getting something out of that "sacrifice" you make on behalf of the good of your fellow man. Even if it's just a feeling of self righteousness, which in my experience is exactly what the motivation is behind that kind of talk.
So, if all people are selfish, how on earth can an imperfect people create a perfect government?
Noone's suggesting there is a perfect government
The answer is they can't. Not only that, but the more powerful and centralized the government is, the more likely it is that exactly the wrongkinds of people will be attracted to serve in it. Our government is just another big corporation looking out for their bottom line, the difference is, if you don't want to support their business they can and will confiscate your property and throw you in jail.
That is a cynical way to look at the government. You liken it to a big corporation, fine. Who benefits out of big corporations? Shareholders. Who are the shareholders in the government? Anyone who pays taxes. Therefore if you pay taxes you are a shareholder and thus have a vested interest in making the "corporation" successful.
I'm not awfully fond of Walmart so I don't shop there, thank god they can't enforce my loyalty to their brand at the end of a gun.
I am not a shareholder in Walmart thus they are not answerable to me. If I were a shareholder I could have a say in their business-making decisions. As far as I know Walmart have never shot anyone.
So what's the answer? Let your money do the talking. Here's the thing, if ALL transactions are voluntary, then two people won't engage in a transaction unless they both feel they have something to gain. Do people sometimes get duped? Sure. It's not perfect, but it's the best their is. The minute the government starts forcing entitities into transactions whereby only one party benefits and the other loses, you create the perfect environment for corruption on a large scale. Now it's not just isolated cases of people getting screwed, it's whole segments of society. Votes are bought and paid for by politicians promising somethin' for nuthin' to the largest groups of voters possible.
I agree your governmental system is screwed - but what about a moderate socialist government such as Sweden? It's not the principle that's wrong, it's the application of it in the US.
RE: healthcare . . . remember government looking out for their own bottom line? You better believe it. My entire family is in the medical field, my stepdad recently retired after going into practice in the late 50's/early 60's. In the time since he started practice, the cost of health care adjusted for inflation has gone through the roof, and he had to crank patients in and out . . . not to mention that if he wanted patients who have a certain insurer, he'd have to sign agreements with that insurer stating that for given illnesses and/or symptoms he would only provide certain tests and treatments.
Yeah, American health care has gone down the tubes.
Why?
Lots of things, and almost all of them relate to the government over and/or under-regulating certain segments of the medical industry.
So are you after more or less government regulation? Surely you can't want any, as you believe capitalism will sort it out?
I could go into all my anecdotal evidence or I could spend hours looking up the links and fact checking myself but eh, I'm lazy and someone has already done it all for me way better then I ever could.
I don't classify myself as an objectivist, but everything this article says completely corresponds with feedback I get from friends and family in the medical community:
http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/iss ... h-care.asp
I mean, people are gonna get screwed in the free market, too. But until the human race starts giving birth to perfect people, imperfect is the best we will ever be able to do. Just give folks as much freedom as possible to pursue whatever their version of happiness is, so long as all parties are consenting adults and enter into their agreements voluntarily. It doesn't end all people's woes, but it does mitigate them.
And if you're unable to look after yourself, what do you do? Lets ask Savage/Weiner shall we. Or maybe Limbaugh.
You neatly avoid mentioning for-profit insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.capitalistbitch wrote:
RE: healthcare . . . remember government looking out for their own bottom line? You better believe it. My entire family is in the medical field, my stepdad recently retired after going into practice in the late 50's/early 60's. In the time since he started practice, the cost of health care adjusted for inflation has gone through the roof, and he had to crank patients in and out . . . not to mention that if he wanted patients who have a certain insurer, he'd have to sign agreements with that insurer stating that for given illnesses and/or symptoms he would only provide certain tests and treatments.
Yeah, American health care has gone down the tubes.
Why?
Lots of things, and almost all of them relate to the government over and/or under-regulating certain segments of the medical industry.
You have to understand that when the Government commandeers medical insurance, this will not be better, it will get worse. You will not have the freedom to go and research and make your own decisions, because there will be only one school of thought on those matters. If you are bleeding out, there is likely only one course of action that will save you (or your child's) life, and they are broadly accepted... Find and stop the bleeding, sew it up.PLAYER57832 wrote: You neatly avoid mentioning for-profit insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.
There are some places where the standard "profit makes things more efficient" and "let the buyer choose" just don't work and medicine is one.
Can you really go searching for the best medical care when your kid is bleeding? Do you really have the ability and time to look for the best doctor to tell you if that brain surgery is really recommended NOW or if you might be able to pursue other alternatives?
Even if you do have the time, do you have the knowledge? The internet can help, but it also hurts a great many people. I have a degree in science, smattering of medical knowledge , yet I have a hard time discerning truth from fiction medically on the internet. Look through the threads here (hardly a representative sample, true) and you find a number of otherwise intelligent people who think vaccines are garbage, etc, etc.
Also, if there is one thing that I will make me throw out all caution and literally go live on the street if I had to, its taking care of my kids medical needs.
To conclude, while it is arguable that government has to regulate to prevent people from being irresponsible in their business practices, such as food services and the like, but ultimately, big corporations have the same propensity to commit crimes against their customers, all in the name of cutting corners. The only difference is that they can afford to lobby to make those crimes legal.Beyond the government-created black market, there are also countless jobs that could be done above-ground, but from which the poor are systematically shut out by arbitrary regulation and licensure requirements. In principle, many women in black communities could make money braiding hair, with only their own craft, word of mouth, and the living room of an apartment. But in many states, anyone found braiding hair without having put down hundreds of dollars and days of her life to apply for a government-fabricated cosmetology or hair-care license will be fined hundreds or thousands of dollars.Beyond the government-created black market, there are also countless jobs that could be done above-ground, but from which the poor are systematically shut out by arbitrary regulation and licensure requirements. In principle, many women in black communities could make money braiding hair, with only their own craft, word of mouth, and the living room of an apartment. But in many states, anyone found braiding hair without having put down hundreds of dollars and days of her life to apply for a government-fabricated cosmetology or hair-care license will be fined hundreds or thousands of dollars.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Even if you were correct, very few people have any choice RIGHT NOW. We have to go with whomever my husband's employer picks... or pay a premium of roughly 4 times the current cost, for only the most minimal coverage. (unless his employer offers NO insurance, then we can opt into the for pay state plan).captain.crazy wrote: You have to understand that when the Government commandeers medical insurance, this will not be better, it will get worse. You will not have the freedom to go and research and make your own decisions, because there will be only one school of thought on those matters.
Good thing you are not trying to practice medicine. You definitely don't have the picture.captain.crazy wrote: If you are bleeding out, there is likely only one course of action that will save you (or your child's) life, and they are broadly accepted... Find and stop the bleeding, sew it up.
As for brain cancer and the like, ummm... you better do the research and find a second and third opinion. That is just too risky to play around with.
Get off it. Having been an EMT for 7 years, I believe I know a bit more about the risks of dying than you. And, that is precisely where the INSURANCE idiots have REALLY screwed us.captain.crazy wrote: Sadly, too many people are not willing to accept that they (or their children) might actually die from a trauma or a disease. It's hard, I know... but death is a part of life. Sometimes we have to just accept death as the end result, because inevitably, it is.
[/quote]captain.crazy wrote: Also, I will submit this as the bigger picture here. Government is so ingrained with the problem with our health care system, its almost laughable that it is now being considered the solution to it. Government, with the AMA, keep regulation, licensing and legation's so controlled, that it costs too much for smaller, competitive medical businesses to bet into the market place, and bring down the cost... If you read this article, and carry its philosophies over into the medical field, you may make a correlation.A. WE are the government. WE control what happens in government, as WE are right now. The majority of this country knows full well we need some sort of universal national health care system (not necessarily government direct), which is why this is happening.. it is happening because Senators and Representatives are fielding call after call asking them to implement something to fix the mess.
B. Again.. the free market only applies when people actually have the ability to make chioces. In medicine, too much is at risk.captain.crazy wrote: Scratching By: How Government Creates Poverty as We Know It
Specifically Notable:To conclude, while it is arguable that government has to regulate to prevent people from being irresponsible in their business practices, such as food services and the like, but ultimately, big corporations have the same propensity to commit crimes against their customers, all in the name of cutting corners. The only difference is that they can afford to lobby to make those crimes legal.Beyond the government-created black market, there are also countless jobs that could be done above-ground, but from which the poor are systematically shut out by arbitrary regulation and licensure requirements. In principle, many women in black communities could make money braiding hair, with only their own craft, word of mouth, and the living room of an apartment. But in many states, anyone found braiding hair without having put down hundreds of dollars and days of her life to apply for a government-fabricated cosmetology or hair-care license will be fined hundreds or thousands of dollars.Beyond the government-created black market, there are also countless jobs that could be done above-ground, but from which the poor are systematically shut out by arbitrary regulation and licensure requirements. In principle, many women in black communities could make money braiding hair, with only their own craft, word of mouth, and the living room of an apartment. But in many states, anyone found braiding hair without having put down hundreds of dollars and days of her life to apply for a government-fabricated cosmetology or hair-care license will be fined hundreds or thousands of dollars.
