Logic dictates that there is a God!

[JoshyBoy]

You're so right, Josh.

Thanks again buddy.

We should pray for them.

Oh I do. Every night.

[Juan_Bottom]

Something of value.



your joking right?

Oh and your location says "USA RULES!"

Your one sad bum boy (look at your name... Juan Bottom?)

If you have to explain a joke then it's not funny.
x2

Well I thought someone of limited intelligence such as yourself would need an explanation.

EXCUUUSE ME for being considerate.

Now back to my point.

The $. Something of value.

"USA RULES!" ?

If the international bankers pulled the plug the United States of America would sink into financial meltdown and very quickly regress to the Stone Age.

I can't tell if this is another ridiculous troll move or if it actually flew over your head. Well played sir.

[KLOBBER]

...It is obvious that he does not believe in God....

True, I harbor no beliefs in regards to God. I rely on facts instead, and it is the atheist who harbors beliefs in regards to God.

I'm very happy leaving the entire arena of belief to the atheist -- he is more suited to it than I am.

I'm more suited to the truth and to scientific facts.

[jonesthecurl]

You're so right, Josh.

Thanks again buddy.

We should pray for them.

Oh I do. Every night.

Pray all you like mate, you can't have me.
I mean, your mum, ok, at a pinch, in the dark.
But I have to draw the line somewhere.

[JoshyBoy]

Something of value.



your joking right?

Oh and your location says "USA RULES!"

Your one sad bum boy (look at your name... Juan Bottom?)

If you have to explain a joke then it's not funny.
x2

Well I thought someone of limited intelligence such as yourself would need an explanation.

EXCUUUSE ME for being considerate.

Now back to my point.

The $. Something of value.

"USA RULES!" ?

If the international bankers pulled the plug the United States of America would sink into financial meltdown and very quickly regress to the Stone Age.

I can't tell if this is another ridiculous troll move or if it actually flew over your head. Well played sir.

Ok, seriously now, wtf?

I can't tell whether you fail to understand the English language or whether your just being an asshole but you dont hear me complaining

Try reading my posts. If you can't do that go back to primary school where you belong.

[JoshyBoy]

Well it's been a lovely evening being trolled and flamed on here, but I have to bid farewell for now and go watch TV.

Goodbye and get well soon.

[PLAYER57832]

Klob's entire debate strategy revolves around "I know you are, but what am I?". Why are you arguing with him? It is obvious that he does not believe in God and is trying to make Creationists look bad.

On this, we agree.

However, I am afraid that the Creationists don't need any help when it comes to poor science. I have yet to find even 1 person who both understands Evolution as it is really understood and taught AND still believes Creationism as put forth by Dr Morris and his cronies.

(note... I DO believe God made all. I absolutely accept God/Christ/The Bible and frankly get a bit angry by the many who assert that only those attacking Christianity accept Evolution, because it is a flat out lie... and lie in the name of God is blasphemy).

[jay_a2j]

and frankly get a bit angry by the many who assert that only those attacking Christianity accept Evolution, because it is a flat out lie... and lie in the name of God is blasphemy).

It's the "Christians" defending evolution that concerns me.

[neanderpaul14]

If the international bankers pulled the plug the United States of America would sink into financial meltdown and very quickly regress to the Stone Age.

Then the government would want us to register our spears and clubs.

[Simon Viavant]

You're so right, Josh.

Apparently, those whose intelligence is on the same level as the lower animals are much more ready to accept the strange notion that their families are descended from the lower animals, than those of us whose intelligence levels are fully human. As for me, I know for a fact that all the members of my family are fully human, with human-level intelligence, and that they always have been so.

Each one of us knows his own family better than any of the others ever could, so I am not denying the darwinists' claims that their family members are chimps, with chimp-level intelligence. In fact, they themselves do display personal intelligence levels that would back up such a claim. However, I am the only expert on my own family in this forum, and since I know my own family better than any of these sons of chimps do, what I say about them goes.

The bottom line is that we're trying to teach a bunch of chimp-level minds facts that are only accessible to the fully human mind. It seems that it's a lost cause, but the poll results do speak volumes about what the majority knows about God's factual existence, and the same goes for people all over the world. In fact, the majority's advantage worldwide on this issue is even greater than it is on this little gaming forum.

I am happy with being part of both majorities, and I am very happy that the minority is most definitely the deluded party, not the majority. Imagine being so deluded that you actually think that 99% of the people on the planet were deluded? What a bizarrely pessimistic and hopeless world-view that is!

Even believing that 3/4 of this forum is deluded is a very strange, pessimistic belief, and it holds no water, what to speak of the whole world.

No -- it is the atheistic minority that is deluded, obviously, and in both cases.

We should pray for them.

That just made my day. I love Klobber.

[captain.crazy]

You're so right, Josh.

Apparently, those whose intelligence is on the same level as the lower animals are much more ready to accept the strange notion that their families are descended from the lower animals, than those of us whose intelligence levels are fully human. As for me, I know for a fact that all the members of my family are fully human, with human-level intelligence, and that they always have been so.

Each one of us knows his own family better than any of the others ever could, so I am not denying the darwinists' claims that their family members are chimps, with chimp-level intelligence. In fact, they themselves do display personal intelligence levels that would back up such a claim. However, I am the only expert on my own family in this forum, and since I know my own family better than any of these sons of chimps do, what I say about them goes.

The bottom line is that we're trying to teach a bunch of chimp-level minds facts that are only accessible to the fully human mind. It seems that it's a lost cause, but the poll results do speak volumes about what the majority knows about God's factual existence, and the same goes for people all over the world. In fact, the majority's advantage worldwide on this issue is even greater than it is on this little gaming forum.

I am happy with being part of both majorities, and I am very happy that the minority is most definitely the deluded party, not the majority. Imagine being so deluded that you actually think that 99% of the people on the planet were deluded? What a bizarrely pessimistic and hopeless world-view that is!

Even believing that 3/4 of this forum is deluded is a very strange, pessimistic belief, and it holds no water, what to speak of the whole world.

No -- it is the atheistic minority that is deluded, obviously, and in both cases.

We should pray for them.

You are, in fact, retarded.

does the fact that I believe in God and evolution at all bother you?

I would wager that the majority of people that believe in God also believe in evolution. In fact, I would submit that the language of God is Mathematics and His method is science. Except with you... with you, I think he was just messin' around.

[KLOBBER]

Your belief in evolution doesn't bother me at all; evolution is, in the final analysis, nothing but an unproven and unscientific belief anyway.

Your belief in regards to God, however, is cause for concern, as God is more suited to knowledge than to belief.

Thank you for kicking off your post with an lame and ineffectual attempt at insulting me; that only shows how insecure you are about your incorrect opinions regarding the issues under discussion.

[jonesthecurl]

btw, BBOLOKER, thanks for the clipclop site, the curlette will like that.

[PLAYER57832]

This "talk to the troll" business would be more fun if KLOBBER were at least halfway original.

Right now, its just boring.

(hmm... we need a yawn or sleeping simili).

Anyway. The interesting thing about logic is that almost everyone will assert that their thoughts, including their beliefs are in a sense logical. No one sane just picks things out of the air. However, trying to find evidence and proof or trains of logic that will convince another person is much more difficult, in part because so much of who we are and what we believe is based on experiences, many internal.

[Neoteny]

[owheelj]

Regarding whether Klobber is a troll or not, I'd have to raise the issue of Poe's Law.

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.

Anyway regarding what's been said. Again evolution and speciation are different things. It's funny that the people who claim evolution is false don't actually know what evolution is.

That said, given the rate that we've observed evolution occurring at, combined with the enormous physical evidence for the age of the Earth, it is very easy to extrapolate out that range of genetic change and genetic difference and see that it is easily possible that we've evolved all the way back from single celled life to where we are today.


Something I find interesting is that if you look at the details, the so called "micro evolution" of creationists is actually a lot faster than the "macro evolution" of rational people. Let me explain.

God created the first humans - Adam and Eve. Let's assume that God created them with 2 sets of genes like everybody else today, rather than one. From those two people we now have the genetic diversity we have today. Look at the height difference between essentially normal people. Look at the skin colour. It's definitely possible to tell somebodies racial background based on their genetics (although perhaps not in line with common perception of different races). Creationists call this change from 2 people to the massive genetic variety expressed through easily observable physical traits "micro evolution" but they also claim that it's occurred over about 6,000 years.

Scientists, on the other hand, claim that this amount of change has occurred over a few hundred thousands years at the very least.

If people could change from being racially identical to having a difference in pigment as marked as the difference between a Swede and a Zulu in only 6000 years, that's an incredible rate of evolution that's far faster than anything scientists think occurs. How do creationists reconcile this fact?

[KLOBBER]

...primordial ooze???? What is this star trek?

It's closer to that than you may think upon first glance. Evolution theory is basically nothing but science fiction.

They formerly always depicted imaginary creatures like "tyrannosaurus rex" standing straight up. Then Jurassic Park came out, where similarly imaginary beasts were depicted standing in a more horizontal position. Next thing you know, these fools changed their theories about these fictional models to stand like they did in Jurassic Park! These charlatans base their ridiculous theories on science fiction movies and TV shows more than the other way around. It is all so ridiculous. Pure fantasy, with absolutely no evidence in reality.

[PLAYER57832]

Regarding whether Klobber is a troll or not, I'd have to raise the issue of Poe's Law.

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.

Anyway regarding what's been said. Again evolution and speciation are different things. It's funny that the people who claim evolution is false don't actually know what evolution is.

That said, given the rate that we've observed evolution occurring at, combined with the enormous physical evidence for the age of the Earth, it is very easy to extrapolate out that range of genetic change and genetic difference and see that it is easily possible that we've evolved all the way back from single celled life to where we are today.


Something I find interesting is that if you look at the details, the so called "micro evolution" of creationists is actually a lot faster than the "macro evolution" of rational people. Let me explain.

God created the first humans - Adam and Eve. Let's assume that God created them with 2 sets of genes like everybody else today, rather than one. From those two people we now have the genetic diversity we have today. Look at the height difference between essentially normal people. Look at the skin colour. It's definitely possible to tell somebodies racial background based on their genetics (although perhaps not in line with common perception of different races). Creationists call this change from 2 people to the massive genetic variety expressed through easily observable physical traits "micro evolution" but they also claim that it's occurred over about 6,000 years.

Scientists, on the other hand, claim that this amount of change has occurred over a few hundred thousands years at the very least.

If people could change from being racially identical to having a difference in pigment as marked as the difference between a Swede and a Zulu in only 6000 years, that's an incredible rate of evolution that's far faster than anything scientists think occurs. How do creationists reconcile this fact?

Good point!

[owheelj]

...primordial ooze???? What is this star trek?

It's closer to that than you may think upon first glance. Evolution theory is basically nothing but science fiction.

They formerly always depicted imaginary creatures like "tyrannosaurus rex" standing straight up. Then Jurassic Park came out, where similarly imaginary beasts were depicted standing in a more horizontal position. Next thing you know, these fools changed their theories about these fictional models to stand like they did in Jurassic Park! These charlatans base their ridiculous theories on science fiction movies and TV shows more than the other way around. It is all so ridiculous. Pure fantasy, with absolutely no evidence in reality.

Can you provide a source to where these scientific claims of how a T-Rex stands were made - both before and after Jurassic Park?

Are you aware that documentaries and other media reports of science are not actually science, but media reports of science, and often have numerous errors? I look forward to reading a post Jurassic Park peer reviewed scientific journal article on the stance of a T-Rex. If you can't provide one I'll have to assume you just made up your entire post and you just lie to try and make your argument seem more convincing, or that you don't know what science is.

[Pedronicus]

We used to think the world was flat
we used to think the sun spun round the earth
we used to think that ritual sacrifice would please the gods for a good harvest / more rain / less rain / just the right amount of rain.

The church did well out of these things
The church owned virtually all of middle age England
The church had a lot to loose
The church will tell you anything to keep the begging bowl being filled
The church will make schools with all that money and keep the new believers coming

Just as the politicians and the bankers will tell you anything to keep their bowl of cash being filled.

Do we believe the bankers and the politicians? no?
So why believe the church?

They're all a bunch of crooks feeding off the fears and ignorance of the people.

Sinners will go to hell?
or
Weapons of mass destruction could kill Americans?

Its the same old shit just dressed up differently.
The only difference is that we know that the WMD didn't exist.

and nor does hell.

[KLOBBER]

If it's not possible for us to fathom eternity or infinity, how is it possible that we can fathom the mind of God?

It is easy for God to reveal Himself to us, as He is omnipotent. I know that's a long word, but it means that He can do anything.

How can you claim to "know" God's mind or intentions?

God has revealed His intentions in scriptures all over the world.

The answer is that you don't know....

It is clear that you do not know, but your attempt at extrapolating your personal ignorance onto others has failed. We do indeed know.

Who knows?

Obviously not you, but God does, and those who accept His word also know.

Will you be called to account for this "sin" of judging others or did you somehow get immunity?

Jay probably already answered this, but all he did was quote a scripture. He didn't judge anyone. You did, though.

If you believe that the universe or life was created in a certain way and you pass that off as absolute truth to others, then aren't you making a creator out of yourself? Were you there when time began? Has your lifespan been so long that you can tell me you were able to see evolution occur? Frankly, I haven't heard a theory ... yet which doesn't require either blind faith or an enormous leap of faith - they're all pretty outlandish....

Wow, you made some sense at the end there!

[KLOBBER]

We used to think the world was flat
we used to think the sun spun round the earth....

Vedic scientists knew that the world was spheroid and that it revolved around the sun all along. These facts are revealed by God in the Vedic scriptures, along with many other astronomical facts that western "science" is still struggling to fathom by its flawed methods. It was western "science" that taught the lies above, not God.

It would be much easier to simply accept God's word, and be correct all along, rather than arguing about it for centuries on end, just to find out that God was right about everything the whole time.

[KLOBBER]

I didn't say the Bible wasn't a good book. I only said that I could not vouch for it's accuracy....

In that case, it's a good thing that you have no authority to verify or deny its accuracy.

Look, I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm just saying it's a little self-centered to think that what you BELIEVE is necessarily the truth and to present it as such to others....

The above statement is your belief, and you are attempting to present it as truth to others. How hypocritical.

And you forgot to answer my question about passing judgement on others...

He probably skipped answering it because it was a dumb question, but I did answer it.

[owheelj]

What do you mean by "Western Science." You should go read old scientific papers and compare them with papers today.

[KLOBBER]

Free will cannot truely exist as we can never go back in time to change what we have done.

For example, you have to choose between eating cake or pie for dessert. You believe you have a 'free' choice and decide on the pie and eat it, but how can you now say you ever had the power to choose the cake instead?
Sure you can go ahead and eat the cake now, but you can never make the original choice again, thus you had no power to choose the cake in the first place.

I know it's a bit 'the cat is both alive and dead' logic (if anyone has heard of that situation), but like that, it is undeniable when you think about it.

Free will is just an illusion created by the linear path of time.

That is incorrect.

First of all, each of us has a limited amount of free will, not an unlimited amount.

God, conversely, has unlimited free will.