Letter to CC: Farmer List

[Georgerx7di]

Greetings Conquer Club!

Today while browsing through some different things on CC, I got to wondering if there would be any benefit to having a farmer list so we can put them on ignore and expose them as a detriment to the CC community. There have been many threads regarding this behavior, but no resolution as I could see. While these tactics are within the guidelines of the "rules" of Conquer Club, perhaps the community at large should unite in an effort to put a spotlight on these shady, underhanded practices.

Example:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/member ... e&u=231446

In the above example, we see a cook with a score of roughly 650-700 being asked by karelpietertje with a score of roughly 4800 to join in a nice friendly freestyle Waterloo game. The intent is obvious. While the tongue-in-cheek gesture of "would be fun if you joined" is just a ruse for their roughly 2 points for the win, it is neither fun for the cook nor a learning experience, except to be in awe of the fast clicking of a freestyle setting and game that was only made as a trap and over within 5 rounds of play.

I am sure I am rehashing old arguments and ideas, but it is nauseating to see this day after day and perhaps I just needed to vent. This is one example of many and I'm just tired of seeing it done by these "high ranking" people who then receive praise for how good they are, when all they really are are charlatans and the CC equivalent of a greasy used car salesman. Acquire and use some class.

PS - This is just an example and not a hard fact that karelpietertje does this regularly ... it was just the one that broke the poet's cool.

After I finished reading this I edited my original post. I couldn't deleted it. I see your point above.

[mibi]

I think there should be a noob offender registry program. When a farmer is caught, they must register themselves, and if they move into a clan or tournament, everyone in the area gets notified with a note in their inbox. There is also a database that keeps track of them all, so when a noob claims they have been farmed, we know who to accuse.

[Georgerx7di]

I think there should be a noob offender registry program. When a farmer is caught, they must register themselves, and if they move into a clan or tournament, everyone in the area gets notified with a note in their inbox. There is also a database that keeps track of them all, so when a noob claims they have been farmed, we know who to accuse.

We could call it mibi's law. : )

[EagleofGreenErth]

Good intentions.... but oft they go astray....

I just know that if this were made, people would try to report players who created team games that unfortunately took a while to fill and ended up with a bunch of cooks as the enemy team.

Take my batch of games listed below for example:
Game 4549743 LOST against a brigadier, 2 colonels, 1 major
Game 4549744 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549747 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549752 WON against a colonel, 2 majors, 1 captain
Game 4549757 WON against 3 cooks and a private first class
Game 4549761 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549763 WON against 3 cooks and a sargeant
Game 4549770 WON against 2 colonels and other high ranks
Game 4549778 WON against 4 different ranks

All games were created the same time. Some filled sooner than others. We ended up with many different kinds of opponents. We played just as well against the team with a general as we did against the cooks. But people don't see this. They ignore Game 4549743, Game 4549744, Game 4549747, Game 4549761, Game 4549770, etc and pay attention to only Game 4549763 and Game 4549757.

And that's my fear.

[Georgerx7di]

Good intentions.... but oft they go astray....

I just know that if this were made, people would try to report players who created team games that unfortunately took a while to fill and ended up with a bunch of cooks as the enemy team.

Take my batch of games listed below for example:
Game 4549743 LOST against a brigadier, 2 colonels, 1 major
Game 4549744 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549747 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549752 WON against a colonel, 2 majors, 1 captain
Game 4549757 WON against 3 cooks and a private first class
Game 4549761 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549763 WON against 3 cooks and a sargeant
Game 4549770 WON against 2 colonels and other high ranks
Game 4549778 WON against 4 different ranks

All games were created the same time. Some filled sooner than others. We ended up with many different kinds of opponents. We played just as well against the team with a general as we did against the cooks. But people don't see this. They ignore Game 4549743, Game 4549744, Game 4549747, Game 4549761, Game 4549770, etc and pay attention to only Game 4549763 and Game 4549757.

And that's my fear.

Eagle, I agree with your point. However, if you read FP's post all the way through, you'll see where he says that karel pm's cooks and invites them to join. I don't see anything wrong with opening public games, and of course your going to get a lot of privates and so on, but when you intentionally pm people who are cooks, then you are looking to farm. This I think is the difference between the two situations.

[EagleofGreenErth]

Good intentions.... but oft they go astray....

I just know that if this were made, people would try to report players who created team games that unfortunately took a while to fill and ended up with a bunch of cooks as the enemy team.

Take my batch of games listed below for example:
Game 4549743 LOST against a brigadier, 2 colonels, 1 major
Game 4549744 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549747 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549752 WON against a colonel, 2 majors, 1 captain
Game 4549757 WON against 3 cooks and a private first class
Game 4549761 WON against 3 majors and a general
Game 4549763 WON against 3 cooks and a sargeant
Game 4549770 WON against 2 colonels and other high ranks
Game 4549778 WON against 4 different ranks

All games were created the same time. Some filled sooner than others. We ended up with many different kinds of opponents. We played just as well against the team with a general as we did against the cooks. But people don't see this. They ignore Game 4549743, Game 4549744, Game 4549747, Game 4549761, Game 4549770, etc and pay attention to only Game 4549763 and Game 4549757.

And that's my fear.

Eagle, I agree with your point. However, if you read FP's post all the way through, you'll see where he says that karel pm's cooks and invites them to join. I don't see anything wrong with opening public games, and of course your going to get a lot of privates and so on, but when you intentionally pm people who are cooks, then you are looking to farm. This I think is the difference between the two situations.

Oh I read the post and understand what he meant. But like I said.... what starts out as one thing with good intentions can quickly turn into another thing that can potentially be very bad. For example take a look at the foe list.

EDIT- And yes, I agree that the whole "PMing low ranks with the intent to farm them" thing is very bad. But if I remember correctly it is already against the rules. Why need a list as well?

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

stick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

[Georgerx7di]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

sick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

Why, you getting beat up by freestyle players johny. Aww, poor thing.

[EagleofGreenErth]

At any rate, my brother once mentioned his genius idea to take karelpietertje down.... just get together a few CC friends that all have premium membership.... and everyone join a different one of his 1v1 games at the same time when he has a string of 8 or so up. Chances are he can't win every one of them if he has 8 freestyle speeds going at once... all on hard/big maps for that matter.

Me personally? I have no opinion on the matter. Hes a nice guy and always showed respect to me win or lose.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

At any rate, my brother once mentioned his genius idea to take karelpietertje down.... just get together a few CC friends that all have premium membership.... and everyone join a different one of his 1v1 games at the same time when he has a string of 8 or so up. Chances are he can't win every one of them if he has 8 freestyle speeds going at once... all on hard/big maps for that matter.

Me personally? I have no opinion on the matter. Hes a nice guy and always showed respect to me win or lose.

I already suggested this. Get a bunch of low ranks ( around 1500 points ) and if 1or 2 of them win, he will lose points.

do it to all of them including king herpes

[Georgerx7di]

At any rate, my brother once mentioned his genius idea to take karelpietertje down.... just get together a few CC friends that all have premium membership.... and everyone join a different one of his 1v1 games at the same time when he has a string of 8 or so up. Chances are he can't win every one of them if he has 8 freestyle speeds going at once... all on hard/big maps for that matter.

Me personally? I have no opinion on the matter. Hes a nice guy and always showed respect to me win or lose.

I already suggested this. Get a bunch of low ranks ( around 1500 points ) and if 1or 2 of them win, he will lose points.

do it to all of them including king herpes

It's funny. Johnyrocket24 was one of the original farmes, playing 50 to 100 1v1's at a time against cooks. Now he criticizes others. Pathetic.

[Bruceswar]

There's a hell of a lot of difference between 8s and 1 vs 1s-- to say otherwise is laughable. Let's not stray off topic-- farming is a product of 1 vs 1s not 8s. How do you farm speed 8s ?

You cannot really, but some people say you can and do. Even if you played Waterloo freestyle 8 man escalating speed. How do you farm a 1 vs 1? I mean sure there are different skill levels and picking maps where many do not know helps your odds of winning. With that said nobody made any of these players join the games. If you played AOR 2 1 vs 1 FS speed since that is what you enjoyed, then are you a farmer, since likely you will be very good and thus pretty high ranked. Is that specializing or farming? If you start foeing people who beat you then it is farming? If not it is just specializing?

You still haven't addressed what KP did-- either you believe it was farming or you don't. To be quite honest, I really have no idea what you're saying........ he invited the cook because they were buds and they'd have a great time playing?

Game 5043372 - Taken from the said cooks wall. The game was a 6 man terminator freestyle speed game. I assume the game was taking time filling up, so he started posting on people's walls who were in other speed games to try to get it to fill up. We used to do the same thing for 8 mans, except we were not playing Waterloo, and we posted in game chats for all players to see rather than on people's walls. Had it been a 1 vs 1 well then those fill much quicker, and inviting the cook would have been a bad idea.

[EagleofGreenErth]

At any rate, my brother once mentioned his genius idea to take karelpietertje down.... just get together a few CC friends that all have premium membership.... and everyone join a different one of his 1v1 games at the same time when he has a string of 8 or so up. Chances are he can't win every one of them if he has 8 freestyle speeds going at once... all on hard/big maps for that matter.

Me personally? I have no opinion on the matter. Hes a nice guy and always showed respect to me win or lose.

I already suggested this. Get a bunch of low ranks ( around 1500 points ) and if 1or 2 of them win, he will lose points.

do it to all of them including king herpes

Like I said.... I hardly care about these issues to be honest. I have come to reason with the thought that rank is meaningless. I'll never get above my high score of 20th on the scoreboard... I'll never beat my score of 3500+... I don't mind that.... I play for fun now. And tourneys. I just posted here because I can see team games against cooks coming under fire.... they have before and they will even more if this were to happen.

[Georgerx7di]

Greetings Conquer Club!

Today while browsing through some different things on CC, I got to wondering if there would be any benefit to having a farmer list so we can put them on ignore and expose them as a detriment to the CC community. There have been many threads regarding this behavior, but no resolution as I could see. While these tactics are within the guidelines of the "rules" of Conquer Club, perhaps the community at large should unite in an effort to put a spotlight on these shady, underhanded practices.

Example:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/member ... e&u=231446

In the above example, we see a cook with a score of roughly 650-700 being asked by karelpietertje with a score of roughly 4800 to join in a nice friendly freestyle Waterloo game. The intent is obvious. While the tongue-in-cheek gesture of "would be fun if you joined" is just a ruse for their roughly 2 points for the win, it is neither fun for the cook nor a learning experience, except to be in awe of the fast clicking of a freestyle setting and game that was only made as a trap and over within 5 rounds of play.

I am sure I am rehashing old arguments and ideas, but it is nauseating to see this day after day and perhaps I just needed to vent. This is one example of many and I'm just tired of seeing it done by these "high ranking" people who then receive praise for how good they are, when all they really are are charlatans and the CC equivalent of a greasy used car salesman. Acquire and use some class.

PS - This is just an example and not a hard fact that karelpietertje does this regularly ... it was just the one that broke the poet's cool.

I'm siding firmly with fireside on this one. I think it would be really useful to have a black-list of players who farm regularly. It would never be quite up to date nor would it ever have every farmer on it but it would be useful none the less.

It would be difficult though. I think the first stage would be to define "farmer" in absolute terms.
Eg:
*20 or more "farming" games
*Use of freestyle
*Use of clickies
*Over 2000 pts
*Opponents all under 800 pts
*All in the last 8 weeks

That was just a quick off-the-top-of-my-head list and will need refining. It's just an example.

Rocket.

I definitely agree with rocket that we have to define farmer. People's definition's of farmer vary widely. This is part of what makes it difficult. We don't want to just start making rules, and then suddenly 3,000 people are accused of farming on the first day. As for his suggested terms there are a few problems.

1. 20 farm games. If we have no definition for farmer, how can we claim to know what farm games are. Do the include 8 player games or only 1v1's. Quads can be used to farm just as easily.

2. over 2,000 points. I just don't like the idea that having a high score makes you a suspect.

3. An enormous number of people on this site ues clickies, myself included, it is not against the rules. Also you don't need clickies to farm, you can make sequential games on waterloo, or perl harbor. Or you can make quads games and invite all noobs, the likely hood that they will work together against an experienced team and win is pretty low.

Having said all that, we do need some criteria, and maybe some of the ones that I mentioned will have to do anyway.

One final thought. Admin has to be careful with these rules. The last thing you want is your game is about to start and you get some automatic message saying, "game cannot start because it meets farming criteria", when your just trying to play a 1v1 against your sister from Georgia who just joined the site.

[demonfork]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

stick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

You know it's part of freestyle yet you continue to join freestyle games and bitch about it when it happens.

If you can't hang with freestyle why don't you just stick to sequential, or maybe you like french cries with your waaaaaaburger.

[redhawk92]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

stick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

You know it's part of freestyle yet you continue to join freestyle games and bitch about it when it happens.

If you can't hang with freestyle why don't you just stick to sequential, or maybe you like french cries with your waaaaaaburger.

wow good job demonfork

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

stick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

You know it's part of freestyle yet you continue to join freestyle games and bitch about it when it happens.

If you can't hang with freestyle why don't you just stick to sequential, or maybe you like french cries with your waaaaaaburger.

its a tourney game. I dont select what he picks and who I play.

[demonfork]

karelpietertje is not farming. He is creating games that happened to be filled with low ranks first. I suggest everyone join his games before they do. Now I dint check to see if he was pulling a freestyle abuse tactic like coded/king herpes and double moving on an opponent. Perhaps we could start a freestyle thread with those players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4977474

stick around to see coded move at midnight. I am

You know it's part of freestyle yet you continue to join freestyle games and bitch about it when it happens.

If you can't hang with freestyle why don't you just stick to sequential, or maybe you like french cries with your waaaaaaburger.

its a tourney game. I dont select what he picks and who I play.

Okay, valid point I guess.

Although it clearly states in the tournament outline that each player gets to 2 games (maps& settings) So you have to admit that, going into the tournament, it was at least a possibility that your opponents might choose freestyle as their settings.

[Mr Changsha]

I think there should be a noob offender registry program. When a farmer is caught, they must register themselves, and if they move into a clan or tournament, everyone in the area gets notified with a note in their inbox. There is also a database that keeps track of them all, so when a noob claims they have been farmed, we know who to accuse.

Ah, now we should register paedophiles AND farmers...

Dirty, dirty farmers.

What a complete joke. No one goes past 4,000 without some stretching of the ethics. Rabbiton is up there after his (quite impressive in its own way I'd admit) 250 odd straight farming wins. King_H (who I actually think IS CC's best player) has never hid how he got up so high, though I think he is now playing wonderfully well against all levels and still maintains. Sjnap did it through freestyle quads farming (and has since dropped like a stone). Fruitcake usually loads his team with one striper to cook to maximise point gains and has been doing it for ever. When I first started playing poomaker was top with scot soon to follow. I always thought their wins ( 8 man freestlye escalating) were wonderfully genuine, but then we saw half of them get blocked from playing eachother.

Accusations of farming are subjective at best and damn hypocritical at worst. The top 10 (there may be the odd one who doesn't fall into this category) are very good at map specialising and point maximising. Don't blame the players, blame the scoring system.

[mibi]

I think there should be a noob offender registry program. When a farmer is caught, they must register themselves, and if they move into a clan or tournament, everyone in the area gets notified with a note in their inbox. There is also a database that keeps track of them all, so when a noob claims they have been farmed, we know who to accuse.

Ah, now we should register paedophiles AND farmers...

Dirty, dirty farmers.

What a complete joke. No one goes past 4,000 without some stretching of the ethics. Rabbiton is up there after his (quite impressive in its own way I'd admit) 250 odd straight farming wins. King_H (who I actually think IS CC's best player) has never hid how he got up so high, though I think he is now playing wonderfully well against all levels and still maintains. Sjnap did it through freestyle quads farming (and has since dropped like a stone). Fruitcake usually loads his team with one striper to cook to maximise point gains and has been doing it for ever. When I first started playing poomaker was top with scot soon to follow. I always thought their wins ( 8 man freestlye escalating) were wonderfully genuine, but then we saw half of them get blocked from playing eachother.

Accusations of farming are subjective at best and damn hypocritical at worst. The top 10 (there may be the odd one who doesn't fall into this category) are very good at map specialising and point maximising. Don't blame the players, blame the scoring system.

you sir, are an enabler.

[EagleofGreenErth]

I think there should be a noob offender registry program. When a farmer is caught, they must register themselves, and if they move into a clan or tournament, everyone in the area gets notified with a note in their inbox. There is also a database that keeps track of them all, so when a noob claims they have been farmed, we know who to accuse.

Ah, now we should register paedophiles AND farmers...

Dirty, dirty farmers.

What a complete joke. No one goes past 4,000 without some stretching of the ethics. Rabbiton is up there after his (quite impressive in its own way I'd admit) 250 odd straight farming wins. King_H (who I actually think IS CC's best player) has never hid how he got up so high, though I think he is now playing wonderfully well against all levels and still maintains. Sjnap did it through freestyle quads farming (and has since dropped like a stone). Fruitcake usually loads his team with one striper to cook to maximise point gains and has been doing it for ever. When I first started playing poomaker was top with scot soon to follow. I always thought their wins ( 8 man freestlye escalating) were wonderfully genuine, but then we saw half of them get blocked from playing eachother.

Accusations of farming are subjective at best and damn hypocritical at worst. The top 10 (there may be the odd one who doesn't fall into this category) are very good at map specialising and point maximising. Don't blame the players, blame the scoring system.

Don't forget SkyT who was the Conqueror for a looooong time when I first joined... he played seq team games with 3 accounts from the same IP address ("college buddies").... not to even MENTION the cheater Krusher.

[Rocketry]

It would be difficult though. I think the first stage would be to define "farmer" in absolute terms.
Eg:
*20 or more "farming" games
*Use of freestyle
*Use of clickies
*Over 2000 pts
*Opponents all under 800 pts
*All in the last 8 weeks

That was just a quick off-the-top-of-my-head list and will need refining. It's just an example.

Rocket.

How can you say Freestyle speed with clickable maps is farming? Most speed players have it. Most opponents are over 800 points that play speed games. Your list is pretty downright terrible. This line is very gray. Until CC defines it better from their stand point it will always be gray.

Well to be classified as a farmer you would need to fit all of the criteria - not just the freestyle/clickies bit. It would be the combination of that with the other critrion. I totally agree though! We'd either need to debate a better opponent score or remove that point entirely. It was just an example.

Rocket.

[Rocketry]

Greetings Conquer Club!

Today while browsing through some different things on CC, I got to wondering if there would be any benefit to having a farmer list so we can put them on ignore and expose them as a detriment to the CC community. There have been many threads regarding this behavior, but no resolution as I could see. While these tactics are within the guidelines of the "rules" of Conquer Club, perhaps the community at large should unite in an effort to put a spotlight on these shady, underhanded practices.

Example:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/member ... e&u=231446

In the above example, we see a cook with a score of roughly 650-700 being asked by karelpietertje with a score of roughly 4800 to join in a nice friendly freestyle Waterloo game. The intent is obvious. While the tongue-in-cheek gesture of "would be fun if you joined" is just a ruse for their roughly 2 points for the win, it is neither fun for the cook nor a learning experience, except to be in awe of the fast clicking of a freestyle setting and game that was only made as a trap and over within 5 rounds of play.

I am sure I am rehashing old arguments and ideas, but it is nauseating to see this day after day and perhaps I just needed to vent. This is one example of many and I'm just tired of seeing it done by these "high ranking" people who then receive praise for how good they are, when all they really are are charlatans and the CC equivalent of a greasy used car salesman. Acquire and use some class.

PS - This is just an example and not a hard fact that karelpietertje does this regularly ... it was just the one that broke the poet's cool.

I'm siding firmly with fireside on this one. I think it would be really useful to have a black-list of players who farm regularly. It would never be quite up to date nor would it ever have every farmer on it but it would be useful none the less.

It would be difficult though. I think the first stage would be to define "farmer" in absolute terms.
Eg:
*20 or more "farming" games
*Use of freestyle
*Use of clickies
*Over 2000 pts
*Opponents all under 800 pts
*All in the last 8 weeks

That was just a quick off-the-top-of-my-head list and will need refining. It's just an example.

Rocket.

I definitely agree with rocket that we have to define farmer. People's definition's of farmer vary widely. This is part of what makes it difficult. We don't want to just start making rules, and then suddenly 3,000 people are accused of farming on the first day. As for his suggested terms there are a few problems.

1. 20 farm games. If we have no definition for farmer, how can we claim to know what farm games are. Do the include 8 player games or only 1v1's. Quads can be used to farm just as easily.

2. over 2,000 points. I just don't like the idea that having a high score makes you a suspect.

3. An enormous number of people on this site ues clickies, myself included, it is not against the rules. Also you don't need clickies to farm, you can make sequential games on waterloo, or perl harbor. Or you can make quads games and invite all noobs, the likely hood that they will work together against an experienced team and win is pretty low.

Having said all that, we do need some criteria, and maybe some of the ones that I mentioned will have to do anyway.

One final thought. Admin has to be careful with these rules. The last thing you want is your game is about to start and you get some automatic message saying, "game cannot start because it meets farming criteria", when your just trying to play a 1v1 against your sister from Georgia who just joined the site.

Firstly I totally agree with your first point. The definition needs to aire on the side of caution - no non-farmers will fit it. Some farmers won't fit it. Thats the best we can reasonably hope for, I think.

I meant 20 farm games of any type - 1v1, quads, whatever. 20 was just a number I pulled from the air. It could be 2 or 200.

As for 2000 points... having more than 2000 points wouldnt make you a suspect, it would have to be in combination with the other points. Most farmers have lots of points. If they don't, then it dosen't matter that they're (trying to) farm. They're obviously not very good at farming if they are a cook. That was my thinking anyway.

Agreed - clickies is legal. However, it is a useful tool for farming when combined with speed, fog and waterloo.

How about a slightly improved list:

• Use of freestyle, clickies OR fog
  In combination with:
• Use of complex maps. (Defined as those with complex features like bombardments/conquest/victory conditions.)
  As well as
• Over 2000 pts
• Opponents all under 1000 pts
  Occuring:
• 20 plus times in the last 8 weeks.

[Scott-Land]

Speed freestyle and I suppose casual too always gets thrown under the bus when anything remotely negative is discussed. Granted there are players that abuse it but for the most part it's an exciting , blood pumping game type-- I can only speak for speed as I don't play casual often. I've said this time and time again but no one seems to ever address it... the majority of the problem has always been 1 vs 1s-- freestyle or otherwise. If you guys want to blame it on something, blame it on that game type. You put limitations on it and you will see the difference.

[Bruceswar]

Agreed - clickies is legal. However, it is a useful tool for farming when combined with speed, fog and waterloo.

How about a slightly improved list:

• Use of freestyle, clickies OR fog
  In combination with:
• Use of complex maps. (Defined as those with complex features like bombardments/conquest/victory conditions.)
  As well as
• Over 2000 pts
• Opponents all under 1000 pts
  Occuring:
• 20 plus times in the last 8 weeks.

Your list makes no sense what so ever. What the hell does fog have to do with anything and clickable maps? Your complex map theory is a bad theory also. When I play a 1 vs 1 I do not want to play a coin flip. Who wants to play a seq, flat rate, chained forts, on Classic art. Mine as well toss away points to bad players who get lucky. People tend to like settings with less luck, hence why freestyle speed is so popular. Just because it is not a game you know how to play do not label it as a farming game. In fact many freestyle speed games have tons of top players in them. Surely you would not call that farming? So the game turns into a "farming" game the minute some lower ranking person joins, but if a higher rank joined then it is OK? Your logic is flawed. You do realize some people play 20 games in 1 day, much less 8 weeks.