[Abandoned] - Gang Crusades of TORONTO

[MarathonMax]

RjBeals, this is a GREAT idea. Even better then my map idea - which I can't post

[MarathonMax]

Here's my idea but again I believe that Rj's is better.


By maximegousse at 2009-05-21

[RjBeals]

what idea - you mean to rework the legend so it fits the map theme better?

[MarathonMax]

Rj

I was referring to my previous post where I talk about how police and politicians clutter the map. Your post on the Iraq map is in the same line of idea as mine here where I say: remove the "two Ps" and pout them on the side like in this VERY rough draft.

[whitestazn88]

that legend is huge... i'd prefer more playable area, or if you're gonna leave it like that, take out some territs so that there is less clutter

2ndly, i dunno too much about toronto, but i feel like gangs of LA or NYC or London or something might be more... realistic? but again, i dunno about toronto, so i may be completely wrong

anyways, i'll be keeping an eye on this, cuz it looks like it could be cool

[luxCRUSADER]

that legend is huge... i'd prefer more playable area, or if you're gonna leave it like that, take out some territs so that there is less clutter

2ndly, i dunno too much about toronto, but i feel like gangs of LA or NYC or London or something might be more... realistic? but again, i dunno about toronto, so i may be completely wrong

anyways, i'll be keeping an eye on this, cuz it looks like it could be cool

@ whitestazn88: Please- pretty plz- DO NOT take this the wrong way: But after reading your very positive comments, I just wanna jump through my computer screen on this laptop of mine, and I just wanna give you a BIG HUMONGOUS HUG to show you, my expression of JUBILATION and APPRECIATION for your comments to this "unique & nontraditional" map concept to playing risk, which lately I have been doubting is gonna be an enjoyable map to play on for a LARGE majority of people !!!

I know that, even after I fix the CURRENT cluster problem in the 4 center zones of my map, there will STILL be a certain percentage of people that will have one look at my map and then rush to their nearest medicine cabinet to throw down the maximum amount of pain killers to relieve themselves of their headaches.... In other words, this map will NOT win over 'some people' no matter what I do to the map.

But be rest assured, I have personally played this map on the lux delux game engine (PRIVATELY after converting the map) using the first rough draft and I was really pleased with the " fun factor". The only reason I added an additional unit (special Constables) was because, during gameplay trials on the lux delux game engine, and in the absence of the "special constable" unit, I found the game slow during the endgame, where once the "magic" 55% total of board troops was achieved, it was very awkward and slow to move and spread quickly to win the game. So by adding the "special constable", it created a 'backdoor' that allowed a more fluent progression of spreading armies/ power to control the board and win the game, without taking away from the realism that this unit plays in real life.

Regarding your comment of choosing another gang plagued city to make a map, I am in absolute agreement with you that this is something that will or can be done by me or someone else. Our city of TORONTO recently witnessed a huge gang raid (Project FUSION); the success from which will be measured in the months to follow. My personal feeling is, that, it only scattered the "cockroaches" into deeper corners, cuz now we are seeing younger soldiers running drugs, while the older seasoned players doing dead time- but they'll post bail soon and things will continue again. Just like they did 2 years ago and 2 years before that ... blah blah blah .... Gangs raids remind of the fumigator coming in to push the brazen "cockroaches" from their kitchen counter tops to the hell holes these gangs try to create. Our justice system up here is the fault for this cycle of violence...

Just last night, in this city, "A five-year-old girl was shot in the back while playing at her Weston apartment building last night, a victim of a stray bullet" - with turf lines being disputed or the "wrong uniform in the block" as the likely cause.... These young males carry guns like I carry my toothpick...

For anyone interested in where this gun action occurred, it happened at the "H" block, G4 territory of my map (draft 2).

Well I got to go to work- but, I said it in my opening line, and I will say it again here: THANK YOU 'whitestazn88' for making my day !!!

luxCRUSADER...

2nd Draft of "Gangs of TORONTO"

Click image to enlarge.

[ender516]

When you reduce the legend (it seems most people agree that it is too big), try moving it up above the map. That way, during game play, once a player has read it, it can be scrolled up off the screen, leaving the active part of the map visible on screen with the Action, Game Log and Game Chat.

[orangeade]

This map is very intriguing. There are few maps available which have a great aesthetic texture as well as an involving and exciting gameplay. I enjoy maps which focus on a specific city, and beyond that, on a specific part of culture within that city. Once I played on a map called "chicago prohibition wars" or something, but this one is more thought out and better developed. This map is superior because of its diversity and the players ability to choose how to fight the entire battle The option to choose whether to fight as a gang, politician, dirty cop, or honest cop has me very excited. It seems pretty one of a kind right now.

There are already other maps on conquer club which have unique rules, i.e. the roman one, which doesnt even use english. There's no reason why this map shouldnt be included so we can all enjoy it.

Would it be the first toronto map on conquer club? I see no reason why there should be a Charleston and Seattle map, but not a Toronto one. Let's get this on guys!

[BigBallinStalin]

"' LUX - YOUR MAP F*^#+IN SUX !!!!! '"

kthx :D


I haven't read any feedback, and I skimmed over the map. It seems you got a short story within your latest picture of the map. A bit gruesome-looking, any chance of simplifying it? I lose hope and flounder around when it comes to complex maps, so please don't take that suggestion too seriously. ;)

I'm glad the map's coming along, it looks great and probably is fun, but who knows? :P

Oh, how many beers brought up this map idea?


-CHeers! Keep hammering at it.

[luxCRUSADER]

This map is very intriguing. There are few maps available which have a great aesthetic texture as well as an involving and exciting game play. I enjoy maps which focus on a specific city, and beyond that, on a specific part of culture within that city. Once I played on a map called "Chicago prohibition wars" or something, but this one is more thought out and better developed. This map is superior because of its diversity and the players ability to choose how to fight the entire battle The option to choose whether to fight as a gang, politician, dirty cop, or honest cop has me very excited. It seems pretty one of a kind right now.

There are already other maps on conquer club which have unique rules, i.e. the roman one, which doesn't even use English. There's no reason why this map shouldn't be included so we can all enjoy it.

Would it be the first Toronto map on conquer club? I see no reason why there should be a Charleston and Seattle map, but not a Toronto one. Let's get this on guys!

@ orangeade: Thank you for the time you took to look at the 2nd draft for what it has to offer. I continue to self educate myself with the amazing techniques & commands that ADOBE PHOTOSHOP CS3 has to offer.

I will be coming out soon with a 3rd draft that will primarily focus with the center cluster, trim of the legend area & other minor cosmetic changes to the map.

I am a humble gamer like yourself, who wants only ONE thing above and beyond the other fringe benefits of playing here at Conquer Club: TO HAVE FUN !!! And playing with the amazing variety of GOOD people and maps is icing on that 'cake of fun'.

...orangeade...once again...thank you for the time you took to make your comments...

[luxCRUSADER]

"' LUX - YOUR MAP F*^#+IN SUX !!!!! '"

kthx


I haven't read any feedback, and I skimmed over the map. It seems you got a short story within your latest picture of the map. A bit gruesome-looking, any chance of simplifying it? I lose hope and flounder around when it comes to complex maps, so please don't take that suggestion too seriously.

I'm glad the map's coming along, it looks great and probably is fun, but who knows?

Oh, how many beers brought up this map idea?


-CHeers! Keep hammering at it.

OMG buddy You make me laugh in the many games that we play together, and now you're making me bust my guts again after reading your comments here !!!!

That's what I like about you man: you call a "spade a spade" - you don't pull any punches ... I'm still laughing and finding my self hitting the backspace key every 2nd and 3rd letter cuz of the hard laughing I'm doin here !!! And the funny thing is: the way I'm typing here is making me feel like I finished a 6 pack of beer in 5 minutes.

The truth is: at first I just wanted to do a map of a "TRADITIONAL" map of Toronto, then I said hey: "this would be fun" - "hey that would be fun"... but I once you get going and understand the basic connections it is really easy. Trust me. I have this friend in Toronto and I use him alot as a "laboratory test" - and believe you me... if this guy can play it - EVERYONE can - LOL It took him a about a game to get the "non-traditional" feel of playing risk.

Really whats involved is a alot of 'ONE- WAY' connections. From the last (2nd draft) I completed, I made a clearer distinction between the Politician, Cop and Gang member. Most everyone has played "paper/rock/scissors " before. and so applying that concept to the "Politician/Cop/Gangs" is the same thing.

So to answer your question, regarding: " how many beers brought up this map idea? " ..... My answer is ..." hic up ! " ...n o t ... s u r e... The only way I can answer that is counting the cases... .... and doin da math- but since I'm learning how to use ADOBE PHOTOSHOP, I can now draw a picture instead of doin the math

[BigBallinStalin]

Hahaha,

I'm looking forward to the map; do you need any more lab rats to run around in it? I'd be glad to, but if it's not necessary then please hurt my feelings by saying "NO, You bastard! Piss off!"

[luxCRUSADER]

Hahaha,

I'm looking forward to the map; do you need any more lab rats to run around in it? I'd be glad to, but if it's not necessary then please hurt my feelings by saying "NO, You bastard! Piss off!"

Ahhhhh... my friend, BigBallinStallin ....now that is something I couldn't say to you as a friend here on CC- not even in jest . You would have to REALLY get under my skin by making a criminal victim of someone, while the whole time trying THEN to make me a victim. Even then in that scenario, I would save those words for that: " up N close/ in your face situation" - because that's the only way it means anything - and since you're toooooo nice of a guy to do that: "I ain't gonna say dem words".

I hope more people give this map a chance/ try.

Oh, have you ever played on the Wales map ? Cuz it has similarities. If you don't like the Wales map ( which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE) then you likely won't like this one also. Oh well....life goes on- got to get ready for the afternoon shift- then me gonna get a week off to HOPEFULLY "pump out" the 3rd version of this draft: "Gangs of TORONTO".

Take care Big Guy- Stay safe in and around New Orleans.

p.s. (@ BigBallinStallin) I'm still counting da cases

[AndyDufresne]

One of your biggest challenges will be trying to reduce your legend from half the map, to something manageable. The less text you have describing the map, the better. Graphic explanations can help be a solution, but sometimes eliminating superfluous gameplay mechanics will help streamline play and make for a better map.


--Andy

[luxCRUSADER]

One of your biggest challenges will be trying to reduce your legend from half the map, to something manageable. The less text you have describing the map, the better. Graphic explanations can help be a solution, but sometimes eliminating superfluous gameplay mechanics will help streamline play and make for a better map.


--Andy

@ AndyDufresne :

First of all: I would like to express my utmost respect and admiration for the job you have here at Conquer Club...

Secondly, thank you very very much for the time you have taken to offer your constructive advice to this project.

Have a great day
Take care
luxCRUSADER.

[AndyDufresne]

I look forward to your next update. Hopefully I'll be able to give some more concrete feedback then.


--Andy

[luxCRUSADER]

Hi CC members/ community:

Hello everyone:

Changes made to 3rd Draft of “Gangs of TORONTO”:

1- Expanded the 4 core block areas using ‘magnifying glass’ effect.
2- Displayed all 1 way and 2 way connections of the map.
3- Devoted a larger amount of Imagery in lieu of the previously overused text legend of the 2nd Draft.
4- Changed the name of the Special Constable unit to Special Services to make it more generic, as per some concerns in CC forum.
5- Incorporated clockwise and counter clockwise connections for the Special Services Unit, in order to improve game play.
6- Changed background to create more of a gang setting.
7- Changed background content to create more of a gang setting.
8- Changed the Gang symbol to that of a gun for aesthetic reasons.
9- Purchased the “most wanted font” to enhance gang theme of map.




3nd Draft of "Gangs of TORONTO" LARGE VIEW
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1112/g ... 00x800.jpg

3nd Draft of "Gangs of TORONTO" small view:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/881/ga ... 00x600.jpg

[whitestazn88]

i like the way you've reworked the playable area. looks much better and a lot less cluttered.

unfortunately, that font is horrid to read, and i highly recommend you maybe use a font that the "police" might be using rather than a "gang" font.

keep up the good work. the process will be worth the wait

[swm3047]

Looking better every time Lux. I agree with the last comment though, the font is horrible. I know my eyes aren't what they once were but was having trouble reading the instructions. Looks like it will make very interesting game play. Keep up the good work.

[luxCRUSADER]

i like the way you've reworked the playable area. looks much better and a lot less cluttered.

unfortunately, that font is horrid to read, and i highly recommend you maybe use a font that the "police" might be using rather than a "gang" font.

keep up the good work. the process will be worth the wait

Because of your suggestion and the growing indications- both here and privately by my CC friends- that the 'gangstar' font is toooo straining... I have envisioned a dialogue and font to replace the existing one- it could dramatically improve the map theme. I will wait for the 'map masters' aka map foundry members to show up and drop their opinions before I venture on your idea to replace the 3rd drafted dialogue...

Thank you "whitestazn88' for this suggestion... YOU'RE GOOD ! If your idea eventually gets incorporated, I wish to credit you in some way. I'm thinking of either inserting a favorite image/avatar you may have, which I could with the proper opacity/ "rasterization" (graffiti effect), blend into the wall of the map; or simply putting your game name on the wall.

Thank you whitestazn88 !!!!!!!!

luxCRUSADER

[AndyDufresne]

Definitely try to increase the legibility and clarity. It needs to be easy to read, to be understandable. Good effort in trying to condense the wall of text into shorter descriptions and by using visual techniques. Further streamlining and striving for clarity should be your big goals methinks, as the map feel like it has a lot going on.


--Andy

[ender516]

This draft is definitely clearer than the last, but as has been said, a clearer font is needed. Assuming you make that change, consider again my suggestion of putting at least some of the text higher in the image, say, between the title and the map proper. It may be conventional to place legends at the bottom of the map, but any text that doesn't need to be reread routinely could be up out of the way so that the map is closer to the active portions of the game page, reducing the need for scrolling.

[aselwyn1]

one thing you should consider is making names not p3 more like sammy juls

good map overall

[luxCRUSADER]

This draft is definitely clearer than the last, but as has been said, a clearer font is needed. Assuming you make that change, consider again my suggestion of putting at least some of the text higher in the image, say, between the title and the map proper. It may be conventional to place legends at the bottom of the map, but any text that doesn't need to be reread routinely could be up out of the way so that the map is closer to the active portions of the game page, reducing the need for scrolling.

Thank you ender516 for your feedback here... trust me... it means alot to me ...

Regarding your suggestion to have the map lowered near the bottom, I am still entertaining this option; but will wait and see how many more people will jump on board with your very good suggestion. As you know, majority opinion means alot at this stage of the 'map-making game'... and just like in a no-spoils game, I'll wait and see...

thanks a million for your continued support ... have a great day ...

luxCRUSADER.

[luxCRUSADER]

one thing you should consider is making names not p3 more like sammy juls

good map overall

Thank you aselwyn1 for you're comment here at this forum... it means alot to me ...

Regarding your last quoted comment....I have found that the short abbreviation makes for less clutter on a large territorial map such as mine; and simplicity is sometimes better than detail. Just look at the "Siege (Castle) Map" as an example. What was done with the Seige Map, with the nameless areas, was aesthetically beautiful- again, by its simplicity. I'm hoping to achieve that here.

"Gangs of Toronto" really is about letting the player FEEL the characters' or units' effectiveness against other units, through the use of the "rock/ paper/ scissors (1 way connections), while making the 'continental boundaries' as smooth as possible for game balance purposes. So knowing the precise name of a Gang-Plagued community was not all that important when compared to the excitement of trying to establish the players own game play fantasy/ style ie whether they wanted to play as Crime boss and spread Crime through the city or whether the same player wanted to be the honest cop and spread Justice to the city. Both can be joyfully exploited on this map, while also feeling the challenge from fellow players who wish to counter your game plan.

Trust me... I continue to play this game on my own and really enjoy the feel (as honest cop in "Gangs of TORONTO" map) when my 'risk armies' mounted on the 'Police Department territory' take out the gangs one by one and then secure the 'Politician' unit in the respective turf, in the map, before securing the 'Special Services' unit before moving to spread the Justice... to the rest of the city....and hopefully win the game... it feels really good ... that's just me... but then again: I'm easily excited- LOL- and that's not always so good LOL

Again, aselwyn1 ... please accept my appreciation for your comments here- you made a very good point.

luxCRUSADER