GEN.STONEHAM's love of immigrants

[Snorri1234]

Also, about AMA:

Physician membership in the group has decreased to lower than 19% of practicing physicians. In 2004, the AMA reported membership totals of 244,569, which included retired and practicing physicians along with medical students, residents, and fellows. The medical school section (MSS) reported totals of 48,868 members, while the resident and fellow section (RFS) reported 24,069 members. Combined they account for almost 30% of AMA members. [3] If every other member of the AMA was a fully qualified practicing physician then the AMA would represent 19% of America's practicing physicians (There are currently approximately 900,000 practicing physicians in America). However, MedPage Today estimates that the AMA only represents 135,300 "real, practicing physicians" as of 2005 (15.0% of the United States practicing physicians).

[thegreekdog]

Yeah, I read something about AMA's declining membership. My dad dropped out of the AMA a few years ago. Admittedly, he thought the AMA was a pawn of insurance companies.

[chaosfactor]

Perhaps a new thread should be started, entitled,,
"Snorri and the Greek Dogs love/hate affair with the American Health system"

[PLAYER57832]

This is why I, unlike pretty much everyone else, prefer to look at things from a purely selfish perspective. I would rather take anecdotal evidence over studies like the one you have provided. For example, has the study looked into whether these people declaring bankruptcy drive BMWs or Hondas? We've had this discussion before, but my neighborhood is fairly lower-middle to middle class (with a few exceptions), namely police officers, teachers, union workers, etc. There are a lot of very nice cars in my neighborhood (which makes me ask - "You live in a townhouse but drive a BMW... are your priorities in order?") Anyway, one of my neighbors was complaining about money the other day related to his daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter living in the same townhouse and how his electricty, gas, etc. has gone up. Keeping this in mind, he recently purchased a third, new flat screen plasma television, his wife and his son-in-law are the only people working in the house, and the dude drives a $50,000 SUV. Now, I held my tongue, but if that dude has health problems and goes bankrupt paying for them, I'm not going to shed a tear. You know why? Because he's an idiot and an asshole, and because I work my ass off and drive a Hyundai and live in a crappy townhouse so I won't go bankrupt. That's why people get mad at this stuff. Because some of us work a ton, save our money, don't take stupid risks, don't have plasma TVs and $50,000 cars, but the government wants us to subsidize people who don't work a ton, don't save their money, take stupid risks, and have plasma TVs and $50,000 cars. This is why I hate the AIG bailout and the takeover of GM and the socialized medicine and the bailout of failed mortgages. Because thegreekdog is directly subsidizing someone else's failure. It's ridiculous. And if people on this website and elsewhere were in similar situations as I am in, comments on this site would be different. I think someone once said (Margaret Thatcher maybe) - "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

Yes, there are people out there abusing the system, but why is it that with so many other issues, you are quick to point out that "those are just exceptions". Yes, when it comes to this issue -- its the opposite.

You are just wrong greekdog. Sorry, but if you REALLY looked into it with an unbiased view, that is what you would see, becaue, the thing is many people have done just that. I can give you nost just a few examples, but examples from about 1/3 the people in my community, WORKING people, who can tell the opposite view. Oh, and the median house price in our town is just under $40,000.

But, as Stoneham mentioned, this thread is about illegal immigrants and immigration in general. There are communities strapped because so many indigent people show up at hospitals, without insurance. Schools have a hard time providing for all the kids because the tax base is just not sufficient. Part of the last problem is using property taxes as the primary means of support, but a big problem is that a good many of those peopl are illegal immigrants working for relatively low wages.

You already agreed that employers should be penalized more (I believe it was you, anyway .. if I am wrong, I apologize). The problem is that we place all the burden on the wrong people. Let's face it, how many of us, if the situation were reversed -- we were living in absolute poverty, with little or no hope of anything better, watching our kids go hungry.. how many of us would really and truly hesitate to jump a fence for a better chance? Ironically, it is that same drive, that willingness to do whatever it takes to survive and thrive that used to be the foundation of our countries folklore. Now, suddenly, we see brown faces and "they aren't good enough".

My dad is an immigrant. My grandfather was an immigrant ..etc. Until, eventually, I have both Native Americans and an ancestor who came over on the Mayflower. My husband has a similar story. HIs mother was the only one of her family born here. He is also eligible for membership in sons of the revolution (he is not a member, just eligible). I, my husband, my kids, all bridge the story of America. As do you, though with a slightly different tale.

Each of these groups, with very, very few exceptions, began with hardship, discrimination, even outright hatred. Each new wave of immigrants brought new people for those already here to hate. The Mexican/Latin American group is just the latest.

There ARE issues that immigration, particularly illegal immigration highlights, but that is all they do --highlight problems that exist already for all of us. The are american problems, not immigration problems, not really.

(P.S. one point ... did you know that Geisinger System here in Altoona, PA is one model being viewed for the nation?)

[PLAYER57832]

Perhaps a new thread should be started, entitled,,
"Snorri and the Greek Dogs love/hate affair with the American Health system"

Done!

[thegreekdog]

You already agreed that employers should be penalized more (I believe it was you, anyway .. if I am wrong, I apologize).

I did say that. In my opinion, if people want to solve the "problem" of illegal immigration, they must target the employers, not the illegal immigrants. If employers feel that they will be punished severely for knowingly or negligently hiring illegal immigrants, it should force things to change.

With that being said, I think all immigration should be legalized. There should be no quotas. There should be no "illegal" immigration. Everyone should be welcome into this country, as that is, what I believe, was the original intent of the US. As Player put it, the vast majority of us are immigrants in some way or another.

Keep in mind too, that back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the English-Americans in the US were very much against immigration by the Irish and Italians, among others. These early immigrants lived in ghettos, much like the Hispanics. And guess what? They assimilated. I have no doubt that the Mexican-Americans immigrating to the US will assimilate, as I've said before, so I'm okay with all this immigration.

[PLAYER57832]

You already agreed that employers should be penalized more (I believe it was you, anyway .. if I am wrong, I apologize).

I did say that. In my opinion, if people want to solve the "problem" of illegal immigration, they must target the employers, not the illegal immigrants. If employers feel that they will be punished severely for knowingly or negligently hiring illegal immigrants, it should force things to change.

With that being said, I think all immigration should be legalized. There should be no quotas. There should be no "illegal" immigration. Everyone should be welcome into this country, as that is, what I believe, was the original intent of the US. As Player put it, the vast majority of us are immigrants in some way or another.

Keep in mind too, that back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the English-Americans in the US were very much against immigration by the Irish and Italians, among others. These early immigrants lived in ghettos, much like the Hispanics. And guess what? They assimilated. I have no doubt that the Mexican-Americans immigrating to the US will assimilate, as I've said before, so I'm okay with all this immigration.

On this, we agree.

I am willing to consider that some quotas might eventually be necessary (don't think so, but am willing to consider the possibility). HOWEVER, any such limits must be race/ethnicity neutral. That is a hard thing, becuase the truth is that if we give preference, it is normal to give preference to those who are more skilled. Yet, those often are not the people who really need to come here most or, for that matter, even the people we really and truly need the most. And, often it means more people from highly industrialized countries that, "cooincidentally" also happen to be largely white .. or Asian.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

What a hypocrite! you started this thread, because I derailed a thread?

You are absolutely correct, I did start this thread and you did derail the other thread...
So that makes me a hypocrite?

The subject is about immigration got it?

Of course I've "got it" after all I started this thread... remember? I did not change the subject here
or add several pages of off topic thoughts.

ONE THIRD of all prisoners in our County Jail are illegal aliens

Did they all commit crimes in your community or are they incarcerated for being illegal aliens ?

Listen up oVo, I'll try to make this plain and simple, so even a guy like you may understand.

ICE [Immigration, Customs Enforcement] throws illegal aliens into Jails for breaking immigration laws, then they deport them. Local police departments don't have the training or resources to do this.

Our County Jail is filled with illegal aliens who broke "other laws" such as identity theft [fastest rising crime in America], drug dealing, stealing, violent crimes, driving with-out a license and insurance and other crimes not related to immigration status. Once these criminals go through our court system, we find out that they are in this country illegally.

Right now we are trying to get our local and County police 287[g] training, which will give our officers enforcement powers to determine the "legal status" of the criminals who fill our Judicial system and Jails. This will speed up deportation of these criminals.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

thegreekdog on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:33 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
You already agreed that employers should be penalized more (I believe it was you, anyway .. if I am wrong, I apologize).

I did say that. In my opinion, if people want to solve the "problem" of illegal immigration, they must target the employers, not the illegal immigrants. If employers feel that they will be punished severely for knowingly or negligently hiring illegal immigrants, it should force things to change.

With that being said, I think all immigration should be legalized. There should be no quotas. There should be no "illegal" immigration. Everyone should be welcome into this country, as that is, what I believe, was the original intent of the US. As Player put it, the vast majority of us are immigrants in some way or another.

Keep in mind too, that back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the English-Americans in the US were very much against immigration by the Irish and Italians, among others. These early immigrants lived in ghettos, much like the Hispanics. And guess what? They assimilated. I have no doubt that the Mexican-Americans immigrating to the US will assimilate, as I've said before, so I'm okay with all this immigration.
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So, you're ok with all this immigration. Open the doors and let the world flood into our country!

This will invite anarchy, drop in wages and benefits, a loss of American culture with millions of foreigners who won't assimilate. Heck, ask those billions of Chinese, Africans and Indians, that our doors are open to them and you better get use to a immediate drop in our Quality of Life.

I guess that wouldn't bother you and the rest of your bleeding heart friends, but it does matter to most Americans. Our standard of living has decrease rapidly after 8 years of Bush/Cheney and the rest of their free traders and pro-business special interests. Our unemployment rate will reach 10 percent this year and maybe higher next year and you want to open our doors to uncontrolled immigration?

Yes, the New World Indians had a very liberal immigration policy and it wasn't too long before those Europeans flooded the Americas into submission. Now YOU want to repeat history?

[PLAYER57832]

Listen up oVo, I'll try to make this plain and simple, so even a guy like you may understand.

ICE [Immigration, Customs Enforcement] throws illegal aliens into Jails for breaking immigration laws, then they deport them. Local police departments don't have the training or resources to do this.

Our County Jail is filled with illegal aliens who broke "other laws" such as identity theft [fastest rising crime in America], drug dealing, stealing, violent crimes, driving with-out a license and insurance and other crimes not related to immigration status. Once these criminals go through our court system, we find out that they are in this country illegally.

Right now we are trying to get our local and County police 287[g] training, which will give our officers enforcement powers to determine the "legal status" of the criminals who fill our Judicial system and Jails. This will speed up deportation of these criminals.

Actually you highlinght exactly why plain coming here should NOT be considered a crime. That is MOST of those would not be a crime if it were not for current immigration policies. Putting those people in jail just clogs up the system and keeps law enforcement busy pleasing folks like you, instead of solving REAL crime and REAL issues. And, yes, there ARE true criminals amongst illegals who should be jailed and deported, but those are a very small percentage. YOUR OWN EXAMPLE illustrates that!

Identify theft -- most illegals just want to work. To that, they need an identity. If they could work legally, they would not be taking an identity. Very rarely are illegal aliens directly involved in any of the true harm from identity left (stealing their bank accounts, etc.). Because they must rely on true criminals to supply documents, they can be inadvertently involved. Also, there can be tangential effects if, say they are in a car wreck and go to the hospital and the blood type listed is found "incorrect" (because its a different person). BUT, again, if they were simply allowed here legally it would not be an issue.

driving-without a license -- this is a prime reason CA used to offer driver's licenses to anyone, without asking for citizenship proof. Because they wanted people on the road who know how to drive, because preventing accidents was far more important than checkin alien status.

Insurance -- see above. Illegals cannot get insurance. Allow them to get insurance or skip the illegal part and problem is over, except for those who truly DO skirt the law. And we have plenty of those who are citizens!


Even much of the drug dealing and drug trafficking is accentuated because people have to pay traffikers to come here or, once here, to bring their family. NONE of that used to be an issue. It only BECAME a huge issue when the border was "securitized" so heavily.

Though the perception put forward by folks like you is that illegals are out there breaking all our laws with impunity, the REAL truth is just the opposite. The REAL truth is that if given the chance to speak without fear of being deported, they will HELP law enforcement fight real crime. With 10,000,000.. repeat ten MILLION, then yes, some are going to be true criminals. BUT the vast majority are just people like you and I, doing the best we can to survive. Only they did not happen to win the "birth location lottery" as we did.

Want to solve it? Tax the immigrant, thus helping us instead of hurting. Skip the illegal bit except for TRUE criminals.

[PLAYER57832]

So, you're ok with all this immigration. Open the doors and let the world flood into our country!

This will invite anarchy, drop in wages and benefits, a loss of American culture with millions of foreigners who won't assimilate. Heck, ask those billions of Chinese, Africans and Indians, that our doors are open to them and you better get use to a immediate drop in our Quality of Life.

I answered part of this in my last post.

You are looking at this backwards. If there are no jobs, people won't come. If there are jobs, then we NEED people to come. Throughout the 80's and 90's there was an employment SURPLUS. Many areas could simply not fill jobs. (fact-- check it out) that does not mean that everyone everywhere worked, but it means that overall..there were more openings than people willing to fill those jobs. THAT is a large part of why we saw a surge in immigration.

ADDING to that the fact that employers could basically hire these people with impunity, with no extra cost involved. In fact, they could often cut corners, not offer ANY benefits, not pay the going wage, etc. Those that did this essentially forced other to do much the same or be out-competed. THAT -- employers -- is where enforcement should center and then the "problem" will take care of itself.

The REAL threat to wages? Employers who feel its more important to line thier pockets than their employees. An ethic that not only looks at profit by excluding externalities, but considers employees "externalities", not an inherent part of doing business. As long as employers are allowed to pay people -- legal OR illegal less than it costs them to live IN THIS COUNTRY.. our welfare system will be propping up employers AND encouraging them to hire illegal aliens. Again, even though not all employers feel this way, they often have little choice but to pay low wages, etc, if they want to stay in business. BUT, it STARTS with the greedy guy, then filters down until everyone has to cut every cost to the absolute nubbin.

That is why your so-called "solutions" -- shipping everyone out -- won't work. YOU don't tackle the real root of the problem.

I guess that wouldn't bother you and the rest of your bleeding heart friends, but it does matter to most Americans. Our standard of living has decrease rapidly after 8 years of Bush/Cheney and the rest of their free traders and pro-business special interests. Our unemployment rate will reach 10 percent this year and maybe higher next year and you want to open our doors to uncontrolled immigration?

Yes, and guess who argued for putting up the fence, heavil TIGHTENING immigration, etc. -- Bush. Yes, he talked out of both sides of his mouth, but you can hardly blame LIBERALS for the past 8 years!

Now you are plain getting ludicrous!

And no, I don't "want to open the doors to uncontrolled unemployment", I want to solve the REAL PROBLEM! The real problem is NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. The make the symptoms worse, make an easy target, but every problem you cite as caused by illegal aliens is, in fact, a problem for a HUGE percentage of WORKING AMERICAN CITIZENS. It may be that the largest group of working poor in YOUR town are illegal. (though DO remember, not every Mexican is illegal!). BUT, the PROBLEM is that people can work and work and work and STILL not make ends meet .. STILL need to rely on government help to feed their families, get a decent house AND get medical care. WE are supporting negligent employers. THAT is the problem, not illegal aliens who also take some of those deficient jobs. The problem is the jobs that don't pay decent wages.

Yes, the New World Indians had a very liberal immigration policy and it wasn't too long before those Europeans flooded the Americas into submission. Now YOU want to repeat history?

No, they really did not. If you believe that, you have not studied history.

Some tribes did accept Europeans, BUT many, many more did not ... and were exterminated or nearly exterminated. Some faught with such ferocity that they earned the respect of those who battled them, though they still were defeated. Many others did not fight, not because of a "liberal immigration policy" as you call it, but because families and small tribes simply did not have the means to fight hundreds and thousands of gun-toting Europeans. So, they tried to deal, to bargain. And believed that whites would be honerable and follow through.

Fighting might be the "macho" thing, but it can also be a good way to get yourself killed.

No, you need to study history a bit more. Nothing is ever as simple as you paint here.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Player, it's so nice that criminals have an advocate like yourself. It must give you a warm feeling.

With that said, illegal aliens break the law, the moment they set foot on our country with-out following our LEGAL procedures for immigration. You may think most illegal aliens are NOT lawbreakers, but they are! They make a mockery of those who come to our country and legally follow our immigration laws.

All those wishing to become a legal resident of The United States of America, have to go through a background check. Why? To see if they are child molesters, drug dealers, violent criminals or other type of behavior that Americans find offensive.

European nations are also being flooded with illegal aliens who flood their healthcare system, jails and welfare rolls. Illegal aliens depress wages and put a burden on legal residents.

America has been a relief valve for the corrupt government of Mexico, by letting the poorest of the poor come into this country. The time has come for us to shut the border down and let the Mexicans overthrow their own government. We have millions of Mexicans who protest the immigration rules of our country, but are afraid to protest the corruption of THEIR COUNTRY!

To become a AMERICAN citizen, you must earn it! Not through some back door and not through some B.S. fast track law to make 12 million criminals, legal.

Most Americans demand that those who seek "legal status" must follow our laws and rules. You break our laws you pay for it with prison and deportation. We don't reward criminal behavior in America, so why should we allow illegal aliens the right to break our laws and be given amnesty?

[thegreekdog]

Gen.Stoneham, you sound very much like the anti-immigration people in the US in the late 19th and early 20th century. I certainly hope your ancestors weren't immigrants during that period of time, else you are quite the hypocrit.

[joecoolfrog]

Player, it's so nice that criminals have an advocate like yourself. It must give you a warm feeling.

With that said, illegal aliens break the law, the moment they set foot on our country with-out following our LEGAL procedures for immigration. You may think most illegal aliens are NOT lawbreakers, but they are! They make a mockery of those who come to our country and legally follow our immigration laws.

All those wishing to become a legal resident of The United States of America, have to go through a background check. Why? To see if they are child molesters, drug dealers, violent criminals or other type of behavior that Americans find offensive.

European nations are also being flooded with illegal aliens who flood their healthcare system, jails and welfare rolls. Illegal aliens depress wages and put a burden on legal residents.

America has been a relief valve for the corrupt government of Mexico, by letting the poorest of the poor come into this country. The time has come for us to shut the border down and let the Mexicans overthrow their own government. We have millions of Mexicans who protest the immigration rules of our country, but are afraid to protest the corruption of THEIR COUNTRY!

To become a AMERICAN citizen, you must earn it! Not through some back door and not through some B.S. fast track law to make 12 million criminals, legal.

Most Americans demand that those who seek "legal status" must follow our laws and rules. You break our laws you pay for it with prison and deportation. We don't reward criminal behavior in America, so why should we allow illegal aliens the right to break our laws and be given amnesty?

1) So what exactly did you do to earn the right to be an American citizen ?
2) How many child molestors/ murderers/rapists/serial killers are US citizens and not illegal bogey men ?
3) Please give details of these Eutopean countries that are having their welfare/health and jail systems flooded by illegal Aliens
4) Why have you repeatedly ignored the fact ( which has been pointed out several times ) that the US was built on immigration, has been shaped by immigrants and that every single new group of immigrats have been used as a scapegoat for the ills of the country.

[PLAYER57832]

Player, it's so nice that criminals have an advocate like yourself. It must give you a warm feeling.

With that said, illegal aliens break the law, the moment they set foot on our country with-out following our LEGAL procedures for immigration. You may think most illegal aliens are NOT lawbreakers, but they are! They make a mockery of those who come to our country and legally follow our immigration laws.

Obviously you have not even bothered to read what I wrote, so why are you even bothering to respond.

All those wishing to become a legal resident of The United States of America, have to go through a background check. Why? To see if they are child molesters, drug dealers, violent criminals or other type of behavior that Americans find offensive.

Not really. The biggest reason is immigration quotas for race, job titles, etc.

Most Mexicans would have NO PROBLEM passing those background checks anyway. BUT, the number of legal permits availabe for Mexicans to come here is no where near enough to supply those hired. That is the point I made above.

I know its easy to claim this is all about criminals. Its really about employers who want to keep hiring people for the lowest wages possible. The illegal traffic does that in ways that legal immigration never would.

European nations are also being flooded with illegal aliens who flood their healthcare system, jails and welfare rolls.

Illegal aliens depress wages and put a burden on legal residents.

EMPLOYERS who don't pay decent wages -- to anyone, legal or not, are the problem. Illegal aliens are just more readily abused.

America has been a relief valve for the corrupt government of Mexico, by letting the poorest of the poor come into this country. The time has come for us to shut the border down and let the Mexicans overthrow their own government. We have millions of Mexicans who protest the immigration rules of our country, but are afraid to protest the corruption of THEIR COUNTRY!

Actually, US and world bank policies are part of why Mexico is how it is. However, the bottom line is that right now, a large part of Mexico still likes the US, so we don't have to particularly worry about a bunch of armed terrorists coming here from Mexico. Go with your plan and that will change.

Wake up! Tightening the border has INCREASED crime, not decreased it. It has turned a casual problem into heavy duty criminal operations.

To become a AMERICAN citizen, you must earn it! Not through some back door and not through some B.S. fast track law to make 12 million criminals, legal.

I see, and what have you done to EARN this?

Most Americans demand that those who seek "legal status" must follow our laws and rules. You break our laws you pay for it with prison and deportation. We don't reward criminal behavior in America, so why should we allow illegal aliens the right to break our laws and be given amnesty?

Maybe because the ONLY law they really break is to want to find work to support their family and because, push come to shove, most of us know we would do the same if the situation were reversed.

Maybe because THOSE people did not ask to be put in their situation any more than you EARNED your right to stay here. They are both flikes of chance and happenstance.

Most of all because all these illegal aliens being here is NOT really what CAUSES the problem, it is just a symptom. You cure problems by attacking the cause, not the symptoms.
[/quote]

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Gen.Stoneham, you sound very much like the anti-immigration people in the US in the late 19th and early 20th century. I certainly hope your ancestors weren't immigrants during that period of time, else you are quite the hypocrit.

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Please save me from your hypocritical "Che" avatar. Especially the way you spout off your capitalist rhetoric.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Player, it's so nice that criminals have an advocate like yourself. It must give you a warm feeling.

With that said, illegal aliens break the law, the moment they set foot on our country with-out following our LEGAL procedures for immigration. You may think most illegal aliens are NOT lawbreakers, but they are! They make a mockery of those who come to our country and legally follow our immigration laws.

All those wishing to become a legal resident of The United States of America, have to go through a background check. Why? To see if they are child molesters, drug dealers, violent criminals or other type of behavior that Americans find offensive.

European nations are also being flooded with illegal aliens who flood their healthcare system, jails and welfare rolls. Illegal aliens depress wages and put a burden on legal residents.

America has been a relief valve for the corrupt government of Mexico, by letting the poorest of the poor come into this country. The time has come for us to shut the border down and let the Mexicans overthrow their own government. We have millions of Mexicans who protest the immigration rules of our country, but are afraid to protest the corruption of THEIR COUNTRY!

To become a AMERICAN citizen, you must earn it! Not through some back door and not through some B.S. fast track law to make 12 million criminals, legal.

Most Americans demand that those who seek "legal status" must follow our laws and rules. You break our laws you pay for it with prison and deportation. We don't reward criminal behavior in America, so why should we allow illegal aliens the right to break our laws and be given amnesty?

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1) So what exactly did you do to earn the right to be an American citizen ?

I'm a naturalized citizen [which means I'm not born in this country] My Mother had to go through a complete background check, unlike illegal aliens.
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2) How many child molestors/ murderers/rapists/serial killers are US citizens and not illegal bogey men ?

Oh puhleeze my little bimbo, this ain't about AMERICAN criminals, but criminals who sneeked through the backdoor...duh!
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3) Please give details of these Eutopean countries that are having their welfare/health and jail systems flooded by illegal Aliens

The Netherlands
France
Spain
Italy
Germany
England

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4) Why have you repeatedly ignored the fact ( which has been pointed out several times ) that the US was built on immigration, has been shaped by immigrants and that every single new group of immigrats have been used as a scapegoat for the ills of the country.

Boy are you smart or what?
Yes, this country was built on legal immigration, excluding Blacks who were forced here by enslavement.
My problem is NOT with LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, but illegal immigrants. Can't you read and comprehend? Or, do you just fantasize what I think?

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Player believes that we have a shortage of workers. Really now, with unemployment approaching 10 percent, you need a reality check.

U.S. and World Bank policy is why Mexico is a corrupt society?!?! My GOD Player, you don't know a thing about Mexico do you?

Yes, employers who hire illegals need to be punished, at least you have some of your neuron connections working, well done!

We need strict immigration controls, period. We can't allow this country to be a huge sponge for the unemployed of the world. AMERICAN taxpayers can not continue to support millions of illegal aliens who flood our schools, jobs, welfare, prisons and other aspects of our economy. Even the Governor of California is now threatening to stop all types of welfare for illegals, as they have become a huge burden on the State's finances.

Perhaps Player feels better that we would just open all our borders and point of entries to all the people of this world. After all most people aren't criminals and probably would pass a criminal background check. So, instead of bilinqual education which is paid for by AMERICAN taxpayers, we'll have multilinqual education for all those poor children whose native tongue is not ENGLISH. Who's going to pay for that?

Dial 1 for ENGLISH

Dial 2 for SPANISH

Dial 3 for Mandarin

Dial 4 for Kenyan

Dial 5 for Malaysian

Dial 6 for Romanian

Dial 7 for Russian

Dial 8 for Polish

Dial 9 for Nigerian

Heck, I guess we'll need to come up with some more numbers for our phones and be very patient at that.

[HapSmo19]

Yes, this country was built on legal immigration, excluding Blacks who were forced here by enslavement.
My problem is NOT with LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, but illegal immigrants. Can't you read and comprehend? Or, do you just fantasize what I think?

GS,
It really doesn't get much easier to understand than that so just enjoy them tripping over their bottom lips.

I haven't paid much attention to this thread, have they called you an ignorant racist and a biggot yet?

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Yes, this country was built on legal immigration, excluding Blacks who were forced here by enslavement.
My problem is NOT with LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, but illegal immigrants. Can't you read and comprehend? Or, do you just fantasize what I think?

GS,
It really doesn't get much easier to understand than that so just enjoy them tripping over their bottom lips.

I haven't paid much attention to this thread, have they called you an ignorant racist and a biggot yet?

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I've been involved with local grassroots organizations that are trying to get 287[g] training for our local police. We also tried to "discuss" [only discuss] the merits of making it illegal to hire and rent to illegal aliens in our community. Guess what? La Raza a racist organization [La Raza translate to The Race] and other radical Hispanic pro-illegal groups, flooded our Village meeting with over 3000 Hispanics, many of which were bussed in from Chicago and PAID a STIPEND to stop our discussion on illegal aliens. Many of these protesters were flying the MEXICAN FLAG! A couple had the MEXICAN FLAY draped over their shoulders. They successfully stopped our Village Board Meeting, since we didn't have the room for over 3000 people.

Yes, these same protesters who want amnesty and citizenship for the illegal aliens, worship the MEXICAN FLAG, refuse to learn our language, refuse to assimilate and break our laws. You would think they would come flying AMERICAN FLAGS, but NO! Where's their loyalties? If, they protested as hard in MEXICO, perhaps their country wouldn't be such a shit hole of corruption.

Yes, I've been called a racist and bigot. They even did a interview of me on Telemondo a Hispanic television station and they portrayed me as some type of bigot. I have a bi-racial son, so go figure. I also had a Black roommate years back too.

The bottom line is, you're welcome in our country, if you go through the legal process. GET OUT, if you violate our laws.

[Neoteny]

Just to cover the bases: Stoneham is a bigot and an ignorant racist.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Just to cover the bases: Stoneham is a bigot and an ignorant racist.

...and this coming from a OBAMA hater?

[Neoteny]

I like Obama. I think he's an intelligent, sexy guy.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

I like Obama. I think he's an intelligent, sexy guy.

Hey, I really don't care about your sexual preference, this is about illegal aliens.

[Neoteny]

I'm just pointing out that I'm far from an Obama hater.