btw there is no god

[Danyael]

There is no god?

I have 3 little girls, who are coming to the age where I need to decide what to teach them in terms of religion. I was raised catholic, but have since dismissed that as the absolute truth. I wish I was part of the majority, who blindly follows a religion, and worships Jesus, or a god, but i just can't. I just can't. i struggle with it all the time. What do I do? Do I go against my gut feeling, and teach my girls Christianity, simply for the morality of it? Or do I dismiss it all, and tell them most of mankind is nuts? I mean, really - I think the American Indians had it right when they respected the earth, and all it's creatures. Jesus??? don't think so. God? in a sense that maybe there is a higher power that knows something behind the existence of the universe, and time... but i just don't have the faith for that - sorry. I guess I think that matter is it. We live, and die, and get buried, and that's it. It's not the most pleasant thought for the 'afterlife' - but i think it's real. sorry.

You can teach your girls the majority of the morality of Christianity without getting into Christianity itself.

as long as you teach them to respect everyone`s own beliefs they will turn out great but as you know ramming or forcing belief on kids just results in a larger rebelion of those beliefs 96% of the time(random high percentage)

best to do is raise your kids with open minds and knowledge of all sorts of beliefs and they will figure out what is best to pursue

[Gregrios]

God the excuses you people make. Everything that doesn't make sense is apparently written in some code, or was mistranslated, or we somehow didn't understand it. A year is actually a month? Wow. Just wow.

Yes, yes, the special "code". In some languages they call it reading carefully.

[SultanOfSurreal]

God the excuses you people make. Everything that doesn't make sense is apparently written in some code, or was mistranslated, or we somehow didn't understand it. A year is actually a month? Wow. Just wow.

Yes, yes, the special "code". In some languages they call it reading carefully.

yeah simon if you read carefully you would know that a year is 31 days

moron

[PLAYER57832]

Also, I'd like to hear a point by point defence of the rules laid down in Leviticus... which so far as I can tell are almost all completely contradictory with the teachings (and recorded behaviour) of Christ.

Most do make sense, but what specifically?

wait, did you just say the laws of leviticus make sense

A lot do, some even now, but most do in the context of the day. To what, specifically are you referring? (if you want to take this up in a new thread, that might be interesting).

[MeDeFe]

Also, I'd like to hear a point by point defence of the rules laid down in Leviticus... which so far as I can tell are almost all completely contradictory with the teachings (and recorded behaviour) of Christ.

Most do make sense, but what specifically?

wait, did you just say the laws of leviticus make sense

A lot do, some even now, but most do in the context of the day. To what, specifically are you referring? (if you want to take this up in a new thread, that might be interesting).

Some of them do make sense, it certainly makes sense not to put stuff in front of blind people they could trip over. (19:14)

But:
Why is a woman unclean for twice as long after giving birth to a girl as she is after giving birth to a boy? (12:4-5)
What's the big deal with not cutting ones hair or shaving? (19:27)
Why forbid people from eating e.g. lobsters? Or ostrich? (11:10 and 11:16)
And what flying animals with four feet are there? (11:20)

[jonesthecurl]

And what flying animals with four feet are there? (11:20)

None, I ate the buggers.

[Neoteny]

And what flying animals with four feet are there? (11:20)

Oooh! Ooh! Flying squirrels!

[MeDeFe]

And what flying animals with four feet are there? (11:20)

Oooh! Ooh! Flying squirrels!

Actually those sort of jump and glide. I'm not sure it can be properly called "flying".

[Neoteny]

It's in their damn name.

[MeDeFe]

A misnomer.

[jonesthecurl]

And what flying animals with four feet are there? (11:20)

Oooh! Ooh! Flying squirrels!

Actually those sort of jump and glide. I'm not sure it can be properly called "flying".

And I don't think there were a lot in the Middle East in biblical times.

[StiffMittens]

Interesting sidelight. What God caused Balaam to experience on the road with his ass was exactly what God was experiencing with Balaam. A creature of lower intelligence, who is supposed to be following your directions keeps pushing for doing something else, like he knows better. Very frustrating. Made Balaam want to kill the dumb ass, and feel justified in doing so.

Except the dumb ass actually DOES know better. The dumb ass could see the Angel of the Lord standing in the road brandishing a sword, and the Angel of the Lord confirms to Balaam that the dumb ass did the right thing in veering off the path. So what is the lesson of this story? We should be dumb asses?

[StiffMittens]

Okay, let's look at a section of the story:

20 That night God came to Balaam and said, "Since these men have come to summon you, go with them, but do only what I tell you."

21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. 22 But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, she turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat her to get her back on the road.

24 Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between two vineyards, with walls on both sides. 25 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam's foot against it. So he beat her again.

26 Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff. 28 Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"

29 Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."

30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?"
"No," he said.

31 Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.

32 The angel of the LORD asked him, "Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared her."

34 Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, "I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back."

35 The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you." So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

First God tells Balaam to go with the men. Then God sets up an ambush for Balaam on the road. The donkey sees what is going down and tries to bail three times, but Balaam doesn't have a clue that he's walking into a trap so he beats the donkey to keep her going. Then God causes the donkey to be able to speak so the donkey can ask Balaam what his problem is. Balaam chides the donkey for cramping his style and throws down some threatening tough guy talk for emphasis. The donkey basically calls Balaam an idiot for not knowing how deep in shit he is. Then God reveals Himself to Balaam and says that the donkey has just done him a huge favor because if she hadn't turned away that He would have killed Balaam because he came there specifically to kick Balaam's ass.

Now Balaam is just doing what he was told. God told him to go with the Princes of Balak, so Balaam does it. Then God shows up to "oppose" him because his "path is a reckless one". I suppose you could argue that God disagrees with Balaam's chosen route to Moab, but the story really doesn't give any indication of that. It really does seem that God tells Balaam to go to Moab and then turns around and says "what the f*ck are you going to Moab for?"

Also, God says that if the donkey hadn't turned away that He "would certainly have killed" Balaam. God tells Balaam to go to Moab, then turns up on the road to Moab fully prepared to disembowel him but then just because the donkey is smart enough to not go near a menacing angel brandishing a sword, God all of the sudden decides: "Meh, these aren't the droids we're looking for - move along". WTF?

You know, others have mentioned the apparent disparity between the temperament of God in the Old Testament as opposed to the New Testament. Here we have a disparity between God's temperament in just a few lines of a story. Perhaps God was bipolar and then finally got on some medication just prior to the events of the New testament?

[daddy1gringo]

Interesting sidelight. What God caused Balaam to experience on the road with his ass was exactly what God was experiencing with Balaam. A creature of lower intelligence, who is supposed to be following your directions keeps pushing for doing something else, like he knows better. Very frustrating. Made Balaam want to kill the dumb ass, and feel justified in doing so.

Except the dumb ass actually DOES know better. The dumb ass could see the Angel of the Lord standing in the road brandishing a sword, and the Angel of the Lord confirms to Balaam that the dumb ass did the right thing in veering off the path. So what is the lesson of this story? We should be dumb asses?

Pretty good. This is all my interpretation, mind you, but I think the point of the fact that the donkey was right is that Balaam has less justification for feeling like killing his donkey for disobeying than God does for Balaam, yet God's gonna let him live anyway. Further reason to realize he’s skating on thin ice.

Your question reminds me of a story I heard someone tell about what one of his professors said in Bible school: “You’re probably going to forget 90% of what you learn here, so just remember this. God spoke to Balaam through his ass, and He’s been speaking through asses ever since. So if God chooses to speak through you, you need not think too highly of yourself. And if you meet someone, and realize right away what they are, listen to them anyway."

[StiffMittens]

Interesting sidelight. What God caused Balaam to experience on the road with his ass was exactly what God was experiencing with Balaam. A creature of lower intelligence, who is supposed to be following your directions keeps pushing for doing something else, like he knows better. Very frustrating. Made Balaam want to kill the dumb ass, and feel justified in doing so.

Except the dumb ass actually DOES know better. The dumb ass could see the Angel of the Lord standing in the road brandishing a sword, and the Angel of the Lord confirms to Balaam that the dumb ass did the right thing in veering off the path. So what is the lesson of this story? We should be dumb asses?

Pretty good. This is all my interpretation, mind you, but I think the point of the fact that the donkey was right is that Balaam has less justification for feeling like killing his donkey for disobeying than God does for Balaam, yet God's gonna let him live anyway. Further reason to realize he’s skating on thin ice.

Your question reminds me of a story I heard someone tell about what one of his professors said in Bible school: “You’re probably going to forget 90% of what you learn here, so just remember this. God spoke to Balaam through his ass, and He’s been speaking through asses ever since. So if God chooses to speak through you, you need not think too highly of yourself. And if you meet someone, and realize right away what they are, listen to them anyway."

Your story somehow reminds me of the scene in the movie Dark Star where the ship's bomb deployment mechanism fails but the bomb is still set to detonate in the bomb bay. So to try and convince the bomb's artificial intelligence circuits not to detonate, Doolittle tries to teach the bomb phenomenology. At one point the bomb concedes that it can't know for sure if it received the signal to detonate, but then again it can't say for sure if Doolittle is actually telling him this. To which Doolittle replies: If the concept is valid, it doesn't matter where it originates from.

Very amusing bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pPZQ77cmI

Anyway, I still think the story shows God changing his mind. I will grant you that your interpretation that the second oracle refers specifically to Balak's multiple attempts to get Balaam to curse the Israelites, is plausible grounds for saying that God hasn't necessarily contradicted himself in this instance, but he has still changed his mind several times in the story. This means that either the Bible is inaccurate at best (or entirely fiction at worst), or God can change his mind in direct contrast to the Christan tradition of God as eternal and unchanging.

[john9blue]

Your story somehow reminds me of the scene in the movie Dark Star where the ship's bomb deployment mechanism fails but the bomb is still set to detonate in the bomb bay. So to try and convince the bomb's artificial intelligence circuits not to detonate, Doolittle tries to teach the bomb phenomenology. At one point the bomb concedes that it can't know for sure if it received the signal to detonate, but then again it can't say for sure if Doolittle is actually telling him this. To which Doolittle replies: If the concept is valid, it doesn't matter where it originates from.

Very amusing bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pPZQ77cmI

Now that's what I call a smart bomb...

[siukong]

Have any of you read The Year of Living Biblically? It makes for an interesting read, whether you're a believer or non-believer.

For the more tech-savvy (or non-readers) among you, here's a link to the author's TED talk: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/a_j_jacobs_year_of_living_biblically.html