jay_a2j wrote: "There can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"
WHY?!
Is your God not capable of just forgiving for the sake of forgiving? Why so elaborate...create us....put temptation in our way...make us with a tendancy to sin...send us his son to be sacrificed to forgive us...etc...
It simply does not compute and if true is not a flattering CV for the almighty...
Exactly... what does using your son as a voodoo doll have to do with forgiveness?
And you know what? All those questions are answered perfectly and completely like this: "because god does not exist"
jay_a2j wrote:There can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"
WHY?!
Is your God not capable of just forgiving for the sake of forgiving? Why so elaborate...create us....put temptation in our way...make us with a tendancy to sin...send us his son to be sacrificed to forgive us...etc...
It simply does not compute and if true is not a flattering CV for the almighty...
Because.... God wants to be loved because we choose to love Him not because we are "programmed" from creation to love Him. Thats not love.... when you have no choice but to love. Which would you prefer? That your child loves you because he/she wants to or because he/she was created to and has no choice in the matter?
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jay_a2j wrote:There can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"
WHY?!
Is your God not capable of just forgiving for the sake of forgiving? Why so elaborate...create us....put temptation in our way...make us with a tendancy to sin...send us his son to be sacrificed to forgive us...etc...
It simply does not compute and if true is not a flattering CV for the almighty...
Because.... God wants to be loved because we choose to love Him not because we are "programmed" from creation to love Him. Thats not love.... when you have no choice but to love. Which would you prefer? That your child loves you because he/she wants to or because he/she was created to and has no choice in the matter?
This is a poor analogy. Why make us with a tendency towards sin in the first place, like mirak asked? That has nothing to do with whether we choose to love god or not.
Children ARE born with a built-in programme to love their parents. This i s natural selection at work... offspring who stay close to their parents and learn from them fare better than those that don't. Evolution 101 jay!
And, most importantly, would you send your child to eternal damnation if he or she didn't love you?
First of all, God doesn't create us, our parents do. We acquire the imperfections from our parents.
Second, if God did make us, He (I feel awful capitalizing that) would be sure to know we were aware of His existence. Then we wouldn't have this debate.
jay_a2j wrote:There can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"
WHY?!
Is your God not capable of just forgiving for the sake of forgiving? Why so elaborate...create us....put temptation in our way...make us with a tendancy to sin...send us his son to be sacrificed to forgive us...etc...
It simply does not compute and if true is not a flattering CV for the almighty...
Because.... God wants to be loved because we choose to love Him not because we are "programmed" from creation to love Him. Thats not love.... when you have no choice but to love. Which would you prefer? That your child loves you because he/she wants to or because he/she was created to and has no choice in the matter?
This is a poor analogy. Why make us with a tendency towards sin in the first place, like mirak asked? That has nothing to do with whether we choose to love god or not.
Children ARE born with a built-in programme to love their parents. This i s natural selection at work... offspring who stay close to their parents and learn from them fare better than those that don't. Evolution 101 jay!
And, most importantly, would you send your child to eternal damnation if he or she didn't love you?
I know a lot of adults who do not love at least one parent. And I'm sure that can also be said of many children. Its Sociology 101 Heavy! If my child did not love me and nothing I could say or do could get them to love me.... I would not want to live with him/her. It would be a painful and constant reminder of the child that will not return my love. That is what hell is..... an eternal separation from God....its not His choice, its ours.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
If my child did not love me and nothing I could say or do could get them to love me.... I would not want to live with him/her.
You would kick your own child out of your house? You would punish them that harshly for the way they felt, which, after all, is not their choice? What about a parent's unconditional love? That is just cruelty.
Sounds about as cruel as the god you describe - the all-loving god of peace and goodwill and all that . HA!
If my child did not love me and nothing I could say or do could get them to love me.... I would not want to live with him/her.It would be a painful and constant reminder of the child that will not return my love.
You would kick your own child out of your house? You would punish them that harshly for the way they felt, which, after all, is not their choice? What about a parent's unconditional love? That is just cruelty.
Sounds about as cruel as the god you describe - the all-loving god of peace and goodwill and all that . HA!
You conveniently left out the next line. Its in bold in case you missed it. My guess is that a child that does not love his/her parent isn't going to want to live with the parent anyways. Unconditional love is one thing but if your child, living in your house, continued to do all the stuff that you don't want them to do I'm sure most people would say "I love ya, but you gotta go. You can't live here." (We are talking about an adult child)
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jay_a2j wrote:If my child did not love me and nothing I could say or do could get them to love me.... I would not want to live with him/her. It would be a painful and constant reminder of the child that will not return my love. That is what hell is..... an eternal separation from God....its not His choice, its ours.
If your child did not return your love you would not want to live with him/her?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really feel you need to rethink that analogy...if that is what Christianity has taught you then excuse me for being slightly underwhelmed by all the hypocrisy....
Mirak wrote:O an adult child...thats different...send him to burn in hell for eternity...
Not Gods choice....its ours.
So not only would you kick your unloving child (how old is this child? 16? 12? 7?) out of your house, you would condemn them to an eternity of agonising pain as well?
Jay, the only reason you love your God (yhwh) is because you were taught all this bullshit longer than you can remember. I will teach my kids about greek mythology and they will believe it just as strongly as you believe in your god.
Last edited by unriggable on Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
jay_a2j wrote:Now to address this post. Given the probability that the Earth is set in the solar system in such a precise way that if it sat on its axis just a few degrees off in any direction it would not be able to support life.
False. This is creationist conjecture that has not only a complete lack of probability equations to support this, but moreover the idea that life can only occur in only an earth like environment is just plain stupidity.
I'd say the mere chance of the Earth coming about by a chance "Big Bang" is astronomically unlikely.
Earth was not created during the Big Bang. Rather instead, the Big Bang was only a catalyst to the creation of our galaxy (which is still young), which in turn led to the creation of our solar system (which is INCREDIBLY young). It wasn't simply a case of *snaps fingers* and everything existed. It took billions of years of transitions from one state to another to come where we are.
Much less that there are other planets with advanced life on them.
Speculation, with not a shred of evidence to support it.
Mirak wrote:O an adult child...thats different...send him to burn in hell for eternity...
Not Gods choice....its ours.
So not only would you kick your unloving child (how old is this child? 16? 12? 7?) out of your house, you would condemn them to an eternity of agonising pain as well?
Nice.
God is Love. He is also Just. It is our choice to be separated from Him. There is not and will not be a person in hell who says, "This isn't fair". Those in hell will realize that they chose to be where they are. The "agony" of hell will pale in comparison to having been separated from their creator. Not to lessen the torment in hell.... but to realize that they had the choice not to be there and they refused to choose God. With the words of God "Depart from me I never knew you" ringing in their ears throughout eternity.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
Mirak wrote:O an adult child...thats different...send him to burn in hell for eternity...
Not Gods choice....its ours.
So not only would you kick your unloving child (how old is this child? 16? 12? 7?) out of your house, you would condemn them to an eternity of agonising pain as well?
Nice.
God is Love. He is also Just. It is our choice to be separated from Him. There is not and will not be a person in hell who says, "This isn't fair". Those in hell will realize that they chose to be where they are. The "agony" of hell will pale in comparison to having been separated from their creator. Not to lessen the torment in hell.... but to realize that they had the choice not to be there and they refused to choose God. With the words of God "Depart from me I never knew you" ringing in their ears throughout eternity.
So your answer to my question is yes? I should probably alert NY social services...
New question: Sin could be defined, therefore, as making the wrong choices. But not loving god isn't even a choice. How do you choose to love or not love someone? My adolescence would have been a lot easier if i could have chosen who not to love...
Yet you believe that this 'loving' god will condemn his unloving children, who can't help it, to eternal pain anyway. DOES THIS NOT STRIKE YOU AS WRONG? AT ALL?
jay_a2j wrote:There can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood"
WHY?!
Is your God not capable of just forgiving for the sake of forgiving? Why so elaborate...create us....put temptation in our way...make us with a tendancy to sin...send us his son to be sacrificed to forgive us...etc...
It simply does not compute and if true is not a flattering CV for the almighty...
Because.... God wants to be loved because we choose to love Him not because we are "programmed" from creation to love Him. Thats not love.... when you have no choice but to love. Which would you prefer? That your child loves you because he/she wants to or because he/she was created to and has no choice in the matter?
Or because you will give him plague if dosn't love you?
Serriusly jay, I can't belive you can claim that God is:
a) unperfect since he wants humans to love him. To be want means to lack something, and if God lacks something then he isn't perfect.
b) a sadist since he made people inclined to sin and then he made Hell a horrible place in wich humans will spend eternity if they act upon the inclanations that he gave them
Now, this has got me thinking...you woship a supernatural being wich is unperfect and sadistic. You wouldn't happen to be a satanist, would you jay?
Mishuk gotal'u meshuroke, pako kyore.
Talapus wrote:I'm far more pissed that mandy and his thought process were right from the get go....damn you mandy.
i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
Capt Killroy wrote:i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
Capt Killroy wrote:just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
I tried loving my neighbour, she wasn't really into it to be honest. Then she started throwing words like 'rape' around. Eventually i had to kill her husband in self-defence. Is that the kind of world you want? IS IT?
Capt Killroy wrote:i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
You need to be supersticious to love thy neighbour?
Try doing whats right because it's right...not because you're afraid of damnation....what a world that would be
Capt Killroy wrote:just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
I tried loving my neighbour, she wasn't really into it to be honest. Then she started throwing words like 'rape' around. Eventually i had to kill her husband in self-defence. Is that the kind of world you want? IS IT?
LMAO Great one!
Mirak wrote:
Capt Killroy wrote:i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
You need to be supersticious to love thy neighbour?
Try doing whats right because it's right...not because you're afraid of damnation....what a world that would be
Very well said.
Plus, you don't really belive in something if you need other people to agree with you. The proof of the state of decay in wich Catholicism is today is how threathened they feel by those who disagree with them. Others (like jay) spend all their time chanting: "Facts lie. Preacher is right." until they convince themselves that that is the case.
Truth doesn't need proof or consent. Lies do.
Mishuk gotal'u meshuroke, pako kyore.
Talapus wrote:I'm far more pissed that mandy and his thought process were right from the get go....damn you mandy.
Capt Killroy wrote:i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
You don't need religion to have morals - if your morals come from religion, well I don't know what to say.
jay_a2j wrote:If my child did not love me and nothing I could say or do could get them to love me.... I would not want to live with him/her. It would be a painful and constant reminder of the child that will not return my love.
You have a lot to learn about children and family.
Maybe if you prayed really, really hard your god would help you out in that situation huh?
Capt Killroy wrote:i myself feel very sad for all the people who don,t have god in there life, just think what the world would be like if we followed 10 rules ,just think WHAT IT WOULD LIKE if we followed just one. love thy neighbor THINK ABOUT IT !!!
I feel VERY sad for you as you live your life for superstitions and fantasy. One does not need cults or to believe in the supernatural to love their neighbor & live in peace. In fact, the MOST peaceful people in the world are those with NO religion.
John Lennon wrote:Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today
Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one
THINK ABOUT IT!!
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