Fort Hood Massacre

[PLAYER57832]

[
You hear a story like this and your initial reaction is "this can't be a Muslim thing, don't call it a Muslim thing."? Personally my mind doesn't jump to a conclusion one way or the other before I have the facts.

Your initial reaction is actually quite telling...

P.S. According to those who knew him, it sounds like it was probably a Muslim thing..Click

No, it is no more a "Muslim thing" than KKK stuff is a "Christian thing". Just because someone uses religion as an excuse to be crazy does not mean the religion is to blame any more than someone going crazy about football, clothes or any other thing is really about football or clothes. Some people are insane.

To the extent it IS related, this man apparently was subjected to a lot of anti-Muslem abuse (not saying it justifies anything, but that is about the only way it is truly related to the religion).

A more important issue is the complete failure of the military to properly deal with mental illness. As bad as it is for the average soldier, there are even fewer avenues for mental health professionals.

[PLAYER57832]

I don't believe this puke has ever deployed, thus PTSD isn't a factor. And, unfortunately, I think he is still alive.

PTSD is not the sole preserve of a soldier in a warzone. Anyone can suffer from it.

As a mental health professional, this man heard the very worst stories out there and was responsible for trying to heal both victims and abusers alike. PTSD or something similar is quite possibly a factor

And is anyone really surprised this has happened? Considering the way Muslims are treated, not just in the US but all over the westen world, the only surprise is that it hasnt happened sooner.

ALL KINDS of people are treated badly in the military. The military needs to do a better job of dealing with and screening for mental illness. But, then, you get into the whole thing of is it really sane to want to kill other people who have done you no direct harm? Of course, the military rides upon the idea that others are going to kill you and so you are acting in defense. The problem is that war has too, too many grey areas.

The bottom line is that war is always nasty and hurts everyone involved. Its why we need to do what we can to avoid war whenever possible... and yes, do what we can to minimize the damage to all who must fight. Damage in physical and in mental ways.

[Nobunaga]

... PTSD is an excuse and a cash cow for a lot of folks. Of course true cases of PTSD deserve attention.

... A guy I served with is cashing a PTSD check (disability) every month. He's making a career, partially, based on his PTSD (interesting background information for a poet). This guy wasn't shot at once, nor was he in anything even remotely resembling danger during his time of service. It pisses me off.

<EDIT>... An interesting take on Obama's response, lamenting the President's insensitivity.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics ... ident.html

[mpjh]

You need a bit more empathy. You don't know the guy's medical history, and you are not qualified to diagnose him. Jealously is not a sufficient guide to appropriate treatment.

I am sure that if you knew the facts, you might find more sympathy in your heart for the guy.

[Nobunaga]

You need a bit more empathy. You don't know the guy's medical history, and you are not qualified to diagnose him. Jealously is not a sufficient guide to appropriate treatment.

I am sure that if you knew the facts, you might find more sympathy in your heart for the guy.

... You speaking to me? Are you talking about the guy at Hood or the bastard I know pimping a PTSD? I know enough about the latter to make a very fair judgement. Of the former, I cannot say.

...

[PLAYER57832]

... PTSD is an excuse and a cash cow for a lot of folks. Of course true cases of PTSD deserve attention.

... A guy I served with is cashing a PTSD check (disability) every month. He's making a career, partially, based on his PTSD (interesting background information for a poet). This guy wasn't shot at once, nor was he in anything even remotely resembling danger during his time of service. It pisses me off.

While PTSD diagnosis, like just about anything on earth can be abused, it is also very true that the army does a very, very, very poor job of diagnosing and dealing with real PTSD and other psychosis.

This has been said for a long, long time. Even after a few expose's, the military has made plenty of promises and only made slight improvement. In many cases, the main "action" has been that those who complain are reprimanded.

So, in this case, criticism of the military's actions are justified. Nothing excuses this man's actions. However, steps could have been taken to keep this from happening. That is the worst part of all this.

PS. PTSD does not always involve combat.

[Nobunaga]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

... This asshole is an Islamic jihadist. It was a terrorist attack.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 905958.ece

...

[PLAYER57832]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

And how does this matter?

I know a good many "good'ol boys" who proclaim the Bible as reason for hating blacks (oops, not hating blacks, preserving the white race ... ). I say they are simply insane. Most Moslems say the same about this guy AND many of the "jihadists".

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

You misunderstand PTSD, as I pointed out above. Now, I don't know if this guy qualifies or not. I leave that to the experts. However, those who suggest he might have had it point to his having to listen to intense story after intense story from people who were in combat, who came to him for help. Add in the whole way the military deals with psycologic issues, such that psycologists are often in an untenable position of both trying to help people, be their counselor and having an obligation to report their patients to the military (its complicated, but that is the basic truth).

It was a terrorist attack.

It was a terrorist attack, true. The guy was insane. Anything else is irrelevant, except as a means of dissecting the events to try and prevent future occurances.

People who are insane often point to "religion" as "justification". The truth is they are simply insane. If there were more to it, I doubt he could have entered the military. If he did and there is more ... it will come out. But it needs to be based on more than insane ramblings.

[mpjh]

I guess both. If you know someone "pimping" ptsd, turn his ass in. But I am suggesting that there may be more to it than you know.

[Nobunaga]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

And how does this matter?

I know a good many "good'ol boys" who proclaim the Bible as reason for hating blacks (oops, not hating blacks, preserving the white race ... ). I say they are simply insane. Most Moslems say the same about this guy AND many of the "jihadists".

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

You misunderstand PTSD, as I pointed out above. Now, I don't know if this guy qualifies or not. I leave that to the experts. However, those who suggest he might have had it point to his having to listen to intense story after intense story from people who were in combat, who came to him for help. Add in the whole way the military deals with psycologic issues, such that psycologists are often in an untenable position of both trying to help people, be their counselor and having an obligation to report their patients to the military (its complicated, but that is the basic truth).

It was a terrorist attack.

It was a terrorist attack, true. The guy was insane. Anything else is irrelevant, except as a means of dissecting the events to try and prevent future occurances.

People who are insane often point to "religion" as "justification". The truth is they are simply insane. If there were more to it, I doubt he could have entered the military. If he did and there is more ... it will come out. But it needs to be based on more than insane ramblings.

... I see. So would you apply the same argument to the terrorists who flew into the towers and the Pentagon? I mean, who knows what horrors those men endured prior to killing themselves? (along with 3000+ others). Perhaps they too were sufferring from PTSD. Perhaps they were the true victims, and all the other dead were simply unfortunate bystanders.

... This is what happens when "red flags" are ignored for the sake of diversity and the "Beautiful tapestry that is American multiculturalism".
...

[Gypsys Kiss]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

And how does this matter?

I know a good many "good'ol boys" who proclaim the Bible as reason for hating blacks (oops, not hating blacks, preserving the white race ... ). I say they are simply insane. Most Moslems say the same about this guy AND many of the "jihadists".

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

You misunderstand PTSD, as I pointed out above. Now, I don't know if this guy qualifies or not. I leave that to the experts. However, those who suggest he might have had it point to his having to listen to intense story after intense story from people who were in combat, who came to him for help. Add in the whole way the military deals with psycologic issues, such that psycologists are often in an untenable position of both trying to help people, be their counselor and having an obligation to report their patients to the military (its complicated, but that is the basic truth).

It was a terrorist attack.

It was a terrorist attack, true. The guy was insane. Anything else is irrelevant, except as a means of dissecting the events to try and prevent future occurances.

People who are insane often point to "religion" as "justification". The truth is they are simply insane. If there were more to it, I doubt he could have entered the military. If he did and there is more ... it will come out. But it needs to be based on more than insane ramblings.

... I see. So would you apply the same argument to the terrorists who flew into the towers and the Pentagon? I mean, who knows what horrors those men endured prior to killing themselves? (along with 3000+ others). Perhaps they too were sufferring from PTSD. Perhaps they were the true victims, and all the other dead were simply unfortunate bystanders.

... This is what happens when "red flags" are ignored for the sake of diversity and the "Beautiful tapestry that is American multiculturalism".
...

In which case you would have to exclude Irish Americans from the military in case they support the IRA.

[Nobunaga]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

And how does this matter?

I know a good many "good'ol boys" who proclaim the Bible as reason for hating blacks (oops, not hating blacks, preserving the white race ... ). I say they are simply insane. Most Moslems say the same about this guy AND many of the "jihadists".

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

You misunderstand PTSD, as I pointed out above. Now, I don't know if this guy qualifies or not. I leave that to the experts. However, those who suggest he might have had it point to his having to listen to intense story after intense story from people who were in combat, who came to him for help. Add in the whole way the military deals with psycologic issues, such that psycologists are often in an untenable position of both trying to help people, be their counselor and having an obligation to report their patients to the military (its complicated, but that is the basic truth).

It was a terrorist attack.

It was a terrorist attack, true. The guy was insane. Anything else is irrelevant, except as a means of dissecting the events to try and prevent future occurances.

People who are insane often point to "religion" as "justification". The truth is they are simply insane. If there were more to it, I doubt he could have entered the military. If he did and there is more ... it will come out. But it needs to be based on more than insane ramblings.

... I see. So would you apply the same argument to the terrorists who flew into the towers and the Pentagon? I mean, who knows what horrors those men endured prior to killing themselves? (along with 3000+ others). Perhaps they too were sufferring from PTSD. Perhaps they were the true victims, and all the other dead were simply unfortunate bystanders.

... This is what happens when "red flags" are ignored for the sake of diversity and the "Beautiful tapestry that is American multiculturalism".
...

In which case you would have to exclude Irish Americans from the military in case they support the IRA.

... Only if they are posting messages sympathizing with mass murderers.

... Try to pay attention.

...

[BigBallinStalin]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

... The man registered at the local mosque as a Palestinian, though he was born and raised in the US.

... All this talk about PTSD is complete bullsh*t, unless we're talking Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder . He's from Maryland. How rough is Maryland?

... This asshole is an Islamic jihadist. It was a terrorist attack.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 905958.ece

...

You really don't know enough about him in order to state such things.

You can un-Americanize all you want, but he's still an American.

You underestimate what one suffers from by constantly having one's religious views attacked at one's place of work, on the news, and pretty much everywhere you go--but mostly at the base from fellow soldiers can lead to serious mental issues.

Also, those internet postings are under investigation. They are alleged. Besides, his name isn't unique. There can be others named NidalHasan.

The posting was analysing rather than glorifying the actions of suicide bombers, but the distinction was lost in a slew of angry comments left after the news emerged of the slaughter in Texas.

The slew of angry and blind comments, like yours.

[PLAYER57832]

... I see. So would you apply the same argument to the terrorists who flew into the towers and the Pentagon? I mean, who knows what horrors those men endured prior to killing themselves? (along with 3000+ others). Perhaps they too were sufferring from PTSD. Perhaps they were the true victims, and all the other dead were simply unfortunate bystanders.

Oh get off it already! I clearly said his actions were not justified. I said he is insane, but the fact that he happened to choose Islamic blather instead of Christian blather does not give reason to start claiming this is really about Islam. This is a reason to look at how the military deals with mental illness, not an excuse to go "muslim bashing", that's all.

... This is what happens when "red flags" are ignored for the sake of diversity and the "Beautiful tapestry that is American multiculturalism".
...

Except the "red flags" that were ignored were insanity, not that he happened to be a Moslem... at least as far as reports go. If there is more, then it still has nothing to do with Islam at large, it has to do with what might have been a poor security vetting process in the military.

This is bad enough as it is. Don't try to make it into another excuse to deride people of the Islamic faith or of Arabic descent.

[Gypsys Kiss]

... Only if they are posting messages sympathizing with mass murderers.

... Try to pay attention.

...

Equating isnt the same as sympathizing............and comments like 'all muslims arent terrorists, but all terrorts are muslims' (not you I know) is rather ignorant and only inflames the situation. Ask people in Northern Ireland or Spain or Oklahoma.

You can only push some people so far before they snap.

[Snorri1234]

... Only if they are posting messages sympathizing with mass murderers.

... Try to pay attention.

...

He said supporting the IRA...

are you paying attention??

[thegreekdog]

Oh, this is a rich argument... "what about people who support the IRA, who are white? why aren't we outraged by them?" Who says we're not? And when was the last time someone from the IRA killed 12 people on a US military base or flew planes into two buildings on US soil? Jackasses, the lot of you.

[Snorri1234]

Oh, this is a rich argument... "what about people who support the IRA, who are white? why aren't we outraged by them?" Who says we're not?

Nobody, but it's funny when Nobu displays his lack of knowledge on things.

And when was the last time someone from the IRA killed 12 people on a US military base or flew planes into two buildings on US soil?

This is relevant how?

[thegreekdog]

Oh, this is a rich argument... "what about people who support the IRA, who are white? why aren't we outraged by them?" Who says we're not?

Nobody, but it's funny when Nobu displays his lack of knowledge on things.

It's not funny actually.

And when was the last time someone from the IRA killed 12 people on a US military base or flew planes into two buildings on US soil?

This is relevant how?

Because there's a reason many Americans are concerned about Muslim terrorists as opposed to the IRA. If an Irishman murdered these soldiers because he identified with Irish Independence, we'd be just as outraged, but there's a reason why we're outraged at this particular incident and why it's of concern to us.

[mpjh]

When 11 service man at Fort Hood commit suicide over the last year, no one notices. The forces that drove them to suicide are the same that drove this guy to kill 12. We have to deal with that or pay a dear price.

[thegreekdog]

When 11 service man at Fort Hood commit suicide over the last year, no one notices. The forces that drove them to suicide are the same that drove this guy to kill 12. We have to deal with that or pay a dear price.

PTSD.

[Gypsys Kiss]

Oh, this is a rich argument... "what about people who support the IRA, who are white? why aren't we outraged by them?" Who says we're not? And when was the last time someone from the IRA killed 12 people on a US military base or flew planes into two buildings on US soil? Jackasses, the lot of you.

Who said anything about being white, Jackass. Catholic was the point, Jackass. Ignorant comments like that do you no favours, Jackass. My family is from Manchester, try googling it along with the IRA, Jackass.

[Snorri1234]

Oh, this is a rich argument... "what about people who support the IRA, who are white? why aren't we outraged by them?" Who says we're not?

Nobody, but it's funny when Nobu displays his lack of knowledge on things.

It's not funny actually.

Okay, "Hilarious".

And when was the last time someone from the IRA killed 12 people on a US military base or flew planes into two buildings on US soil?

This is relevant how?

Because there's a reason many Americans are concerned about Muslim terrorists as opposed to the IRA. If an Irishman murdered these soldiers because he identified with Irish Independence, we'd be just as outraged, but there's a reason why we're outraged at this particular incident and why it's of concern to us.

Understandable, I'm actually quite okay with paying more attention to red flags. I am simply concerned that this incident is going to lead to some form of racial profiling which will only be worse for moral and safety.

[Snorri1234]

... The man was investigated for posting on websites, equating jihadist suicide bombers with men who dive on grenades to save their buds.

So gathering from the hardcore outrage and judging you have done of this man it's fair to assume you've actually read the post that was under investigation, right?

No?
Let me quote it for you then.

"There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that "IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE" and Allah (SWT) knows best."

Out of context it doesn't seem particularly crazy or threatening.

In context I can see quite a few places where a comment like this would raise no flags at all. For example, he might be answering a claim by someone who quoted the islamic ban on suicide as proof that terrorists were crazy. In fact, I think that's probably the case. I would probably answer much the same thing in such a situation, i.e. that it is viewed in their culture as a noble sacrifice and not a suicide.

Note how he isn't saying Islamic bombings are awesome?




Aside on PTSD:

The broken marriages, the mental afflictions, the occasional suicides and desertions: the Iraq War has had a huge impact on Fort Hood

Shit ain't cool.

[bedub1]

Liberals will blame the war, the army, the gun, the PTSD, the discrimination he faced because he was muslim, his recruiter, the guys that reviewed his online postings, etc etc etc.

Realists will blame the jackass that killed everybody.