mgconstruction wrote:
He saw that Duke didn't know how to play & went in game chat anyway. Yes he did stop when I asked him to but then proceeded to tell me I am wrong at least 3 times a day. Seriously I have about 20 PMs from this dude telling me I and my tourney rules are wrong. And has now started 3 public threads 1 of which was before I even made a decision.
it isnt true, before his decision to punish me, I sent to him only 5 or 6 messages, and every of them except first were ANSWER to someone's reply. one of them was on the beginning, that I suppose duke is throwing away the game, and others was argumentation why I gave advices and why I think it is not against the rules and thing to punish. to prove it, I will copy here everything I sent to him:
ME: I am mad how bad can play some players 
if you look at the game MyTurnToWin vs duke justice, last move of duke justice (round 2) is terrible. he didnt enter in territory which gets to red 2 bonus units, he could attack 13 vs 1 to enter in!
and because of that playing my team can stay without playoff
that playing is very sad to me, because it s not hard to make playoff if you play vs players who plays like duke justice.
I really hope everybody plays fair here, and I hope there are not secret deals between teams.
MG:While I can understand your needing Duke to win to help you with a playoff spot, I cant see any deals between them happening.
For one they are not in same clan, they haven't played each other much & they don't really seem to know each other. Keep in mind Duke is a private with only 48 games complete so he really isn't that good of a player yet.
I also map ranked Duke & this is the first time he's ever played on that map which can be a very confusing map. He also may not have clicky maps to help him which is really needed on that map.
Furthermore you helping him in game chat could be considered bad sportsmanship in a tourney. Technically you telling him what moves to make is the same as you playing the game for him which is unfair to the team that he is playing.
Maybe PM him & ask if he wants your help and than maybe help him through PM's. Or offer to play him on that map to help tutor him.
ME: my team and san diego are rivals to make wildcar place to playoff.
I did it because I saw he played terrible. if you see at game chat, I first suggested him BOB script to install, I supposed he dont have it (and on that map it is very unfair that one plays with script, other without). when he played 2nd move terrible then I started to suggest him moves because I started to think that he dont want that win.
it can be deal like "I need win to make playoff, and you cant reach playoff, so give me that win and I will give you win (or 2) for points in private game later".
I really believe that here everybody is playing fair, so that written up is only possibility.
you said that you want more action in game chat in weeks 9,10 so I thought suggesting moves is included. from my opinion suggesting moves is not unfair, because he decide about every move, not me. the same thing is if I suggest move to my partner because now is duke my partner because my playoff depends of his game also.
but you are director of tourney, so I WILL NOT do it from now because you said that is not fair.
sorry for wasting your time, I only want that here everybody is playing fair. and please, take your eyes on that game. thanks
MG:Re guarding Game 6150916
If you will notice I have sent this to all parties involved including their partners so there is no misunderstanding.
My view on this matter is a team that is playing on their home map has an advantage for a reason. In NFL football its called "Home field Advantage".
For another team not playing in that game to come into another teams game for the purpose of helping that team win is considered very bad sportsmanship at the least.
If you went into your partners game (still frowned upon by some)to help him, that is different because you would have a "Direct" tie to that game being its a direct part of your record. Another team winning or losing to help you make the playoffs is NOT a "direct" tie to that game but an "Indirect" one.
We could go into 10 games a week for the whole season & find players who have not played on the other teams home maps. That is why every team got 5 home games & 5 away games.
If you went into another teams stadium & cheered the team on you needed to win that would be fine. But if you ran on the field & stole the ball out of the air to prevent the home team from scoring you would probably be arrested.
As I told MyTurnToWin yesterday, I would hope to wait it out & see what happens only because dealing with such issues leaves a nasty taste in everyone's mouth. If he was to win that game I was gonna let it go & PM joski to please not do that anymore. However I am still receiving complaints about it as of this evening so I guess its inevitable for me to deal with the issue.
These are my feelings on this but that really doesn't matter at this point. Because I am also playing in this tourney I have removed myself from the decision making on the issue at hand & passed it on to a mod not playing in this tourney to look at it.
What he decides I will abide by & so will everyone involved.
Thanks,
MG
duke justice: Well if it does really bother alot of people i could forfeit this game and have a loss to my column, i do not know this person who help me out(josko) and if it does happen again i will use the advice again.... sorry for being honest... have a great season for what is left.. no hard feelings
ME:hi all 
as I said before to MG, he wrote that he wants more activity in game chat last 2 weeks, so I was much more active in different game chats. from my opinion, suggesting turns is not unfair, at the end every player decide himself what to do. but MG sent me message yesterday that fom his opinion it is unfair so I decided NOT to do it at all. and I excused you in game chat for doing that.
and if duke justice doesnt have script, then he have great handicap in that map you play. he plays it first time and it is hard there to see borders and area bonus on that map without script. if you (MyTurnToWin) dont have script it is NOT handicap for you because it is your home map and you know very well where are borders and area bonuses.
I want to win every my game without my opponent have any handicap, maybe it is not the same thing with you.
and finally, if anybody here wants, I let him free to enter in my game in last week and suggest my opponent what to do, I will not be angry because of that. (because I think it is not unfair, some funs cryes at the game for example "put ronaldinho out, he plays terrible, put kaka in, he deserves it", but coach finally decides what to do)
ME:I think that forfeiting is much more unfair move than giving advices. so please duke justice battle for your win to the end. it will be the most fair.
as you can see, duke justice says that "if it does happen again I will use advice again". so what s the problem? any player can decide for himself if he wants advices or not, then why do you (MyTurnToWin) decide about him if it is fair or not? it is his decision.
but, I will not giving advices anymore because organizer (MG) said that it is not unfair, even if player who plays wants it.
MG:K, this is the last time I'm gonna PM about this until I rule on this matter, which will not be until the game in question is complete.
For one, the activity in game chat I encouraged is for "Smack Talk". Not telling another player how to play that map, which in any kind of tourney is unethical and in most cases against the tourney rules. If you cannot decipher between the two than I would suggest that you stay out of the other tournament games period.
And please do not try & twist the meaning of my words for the Smack talk contest, there is no comparison from Smack Talk to cheating. One has nothing to do with the other.
As Tournament Director this is my Official PM warning that any future involvement of helping other players win their tourney game by telling them what moves to make will result in immediate removal from tournament. Furthermore the arguments on this matter need to stop immediately
As far as it not being fair to a player to play on a map they don't know. That is the whole point to home field advantage. This entire tourney is based on the notion that the stronger teams will overcome the other teams home field advantage. Well rounded teams will not only win on their own home maps but will win on some away maps as well. There is nothing unfair about this when that's what the tourney is based on. Everyone signing up knew this. It was & is well documented in the first post of tourney thread about the rules, games being played, home maps etc. Your personal feelings on this do not matter, this is what the tourney is based on. Having an advantage in half your games & trying to overcome that advantage in the other half. There is nothing trivial about this. This is what the tourney is based on, so any arguments to the contrary are mute.
Please do not try to justify a forfeit being any more unfair than what has happened here. What happened here is no different than you signing onto his account & playing for him. Anyone can click a mouse when told what moves to make. This completely took away home field advantage for MyTurnToWin.
Duke please do not take this as a slight to you. You are a new player & are not expected to play well on these kind of maps yet. Also, please do not let this discourage you from learning from others including myself. Tournaments have a stronger set of ethics than regular games. Regular games or Private Games are where you should be getting tutorage from. Society of cooks will help you make tremendous strides in game play & teach you a ton including all the cool add ons for games to help you. Here's the link viewforum.php?f=341
After speaking with a tournament Moderator, It is the Tournament Moderators opinion that the following disciplinary actions should be considered but is left up to me as the Tournament Director.
1- MyTurnToWin and duke justice can play in a rematch with MyTurnToWin choosing map & all settings.
and/or
2 - MyTurnToWin can be declared winner by forfeit by Tournament Director.
and/or
3 - josko.ri can be charged a forfeit (loss) this week for his involvement in the matter.
Any or ALL of these can be implemented when the game ends.
Now as I said before, I wanted to wait this game out & see what happens because no matter what my decision is, it will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth, including my own.
Funny thing is If MyTurnToWin wins the game then this whole cheating thing would have been mute on the outcome but some of you just have keep it going. I suggest all of you let this go until the games over & I make my decision.
Furthermore, If still needed, I want my decision to have the least effect on the outcome of playoff spots gained or lost but at the same time keep the integrity of this tournament intact.
Regards,
MG
ME:I think that I didnt violating any rule, because here http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?mode=rules
and in your first post of tourney is not written that suggesting moves is not fair and I agree that anybody anytime can join to my games and talk to my opponent what to do.
also, AFTER I was warned from mgconstruction that it is not fair, I didnt suggest moves to anybody. if you want make it as a rule which can be punished, you should write it at the beginning, so everybody can know that it is not allowed and is behaviour for punishing.
MG:Again, I'm sending this to all partners also just so there is no misunderstandings.
josko.ri,
The below quote is from a Tournament Moderator in relation to the game chat he read & all the PM's I received on this issue.
God-awful map. Almost as bad as Poison Rome.
Anywho, it appears that the player from Team 3 (josko.ri) has stopped giving the advice, so I wouldn't disqualify them from the tournament. I'd say your best options would be to give Team 1 (MyTurnToWin ) the option of a re-make and/or give that player from Team 3 (josko.ri) a forfeit in his next game (I'm assuming other teammates play 1v1 games with the best record moving on). For sure give Team 3 a warning. It doesn't break any of the site rules, but it's obviously against the spirit of tournaments. Good luck.
With that being said after I PMed everyone with the warning about helping others in tourney games, what the decision could be & when my decision would be then this topic was started in the forums viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104849
Also, In the PM I said
Furthermore, If still needed, I want my decision to have the least effect on the outcome of playoff spots gained or lost but at the same time keep the integrity of this tournament intact.
Honestly I was really hoping this matter would resolve itself but it then went to the public forum.
You know, I take pride in the tournaments I run quite a few & in this particular one its a ton of work and the time I have spent on this issue was time that could have been spent in my tourneys. Not to mention I am putting up $75 bucks of my hard earned money so that you, the players can have a good time & maybe win a premium prize. I am appalled at how I have been treated in this matter when I'm doing all this work, putting up my own money and some players want to argue with what the spirit of my tourney should & should not be. This whole issue has made me rethink even doing tourneys or at the least adding a line for line rules page just so some people cant say "It's not in the rules"
Also, because the only person that did anything that hurt the spirit of the tourney, as well as benefiting from the outcome of the game in question and taking a tourney issue to the public forum. I am issuing a forfeit to josko.ri for next weeks game.
My reasoning for this is not only it not fair for Duke justice & MyTurnToWin to have to replay the game, or Duke take a forfeit. Also the team you are playing next week is eliminated from the playoffs so it wont help them. As well as it negating the 1/2 win gained & lost from the game in question. So the only team this decision will impact is yours.
Look, I don't mean to act all high & mighty but the fact is, this thing had plenty of chances to rectify itself & you just wouldn't let it go, therefore forcing me to make a decision I never wanted to make in the first place.
My hope is that we all learn from this & move on, I know I have.
Regards,
MG
ME:I am very disappointed because of that decision :'(
if any punishment should be done to my team, I think enough punishment was to start the tournament as a reserve with 0-2-2 score. so that handicap should be enough to make equal mistake I did in game chat, but obviously it is not enough, let's take us out of the tournament in any possible way.
In forum topic that I started I didnt mention any names, nor tournament, nor director, nor participants. freakns mentioned your name in topic. I just wanted to see opinions from neutral, especially experienced, players, so I described only situation, not mentioned any names.
and 5 persons (3 of them colonels with more than 1000 games played and 1 moderator) said that it is not against the rules. only 1 person said that it is cheating. so, I am punished for doing something which is not against the rules, and also, after your warning I didnt do it again and I apologized for it in game chat.
I am really sorry that you spend so many your time about that problem, but it is also your guilty. you should write clear rules that it is not allowed on the beginning of your tournament, because in every competition that your games potentially depends of other games, it is possible to do things like that.
I dont know what else I could do to rectify the mistake. I apologized and didnt do it again, and it wasnt enough. I started topic on forum to find other opinions, and other opinions are also that it is not for punishment.
it was really pleasure to participate in this tournament because the tournament has very good conception (congrats for idea), but it is also very hard feeling now to be banned on that way which is against the rules.
so, thanks for banning (because now we cant reach playoff) us from the tournament. and sorry moonchild that you are also banned because of my mistake, but I think that mgconstruction also need to say you sorry, not me, because banning is his mistake and rule-breaking.
