Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

[denominator]

Exactly, barterer. To use JR's new plethora of tournaments (10 1v1 single elimination brackets all put out at the same time) as an example, we can see the following:

16 players/tournament X 10 tournaments = 160 players total

This is what logic would suggest. However, this is not the case, as 123/160 spots have filled at the time I am writing this, my stats are entirely true, but the point still stands. This is in 24 hours.

Of those 123 spots, there are only 36 players involved in the tournaments. In fact, if you look at all 10 of them, there are about 8 players in each one, and about 10 more in at least 5. Sure, the tournaments fill quickly, but that's because it's the same players playing in all of them.

To continue the example, here are the 10 tournaments that have been pushed to the second page (I will admit that this is not entirely true as there has been 24 hours pass since they were posted, so the 10 tournaments bumped may have changed):

NCAA Basketball Tournament
LW Beta Maps II (Germany)
Arsenal vs Manchester United
NUKE THE USA!
PsychoB's I Suck at This Map 8
Bogan's WWII Ardennes
Need Reserves for NCAA College Hoops

The other 3 threads had already moved so I discounted them.

It's not a case of "they're filling fast so there's no issue" because of the reason they're filling fast. You're pushing 7 tournaments with different premises (although LW's Beta Maps series is another one where a bunch came out at once) off the main page for 7 identical tournaments with identical players played at the same time.

Half of the players in the 16 player 1v1 style tournaments always play every 16 player 1v1 tournament. Which means there isn't high demand for it, simply that you have cornered an audience.

[Night Strike]

FYI, I just canceled 11 tournaments that had not started within the 30 allotted days.

[HighlanderAttack]

So when does this thread run its course? You have the same people saying the same thing over and over trying to make their point or defending their opinion. Same thing over and over and over again and that includes me.

Some think it is a big issue while some don't.

Ultimately it is not hard to navigate through 2 pages or even 3 pages. Even when it was one page the tournaments that people did not want to join would stay at the bottom. If it is a good enough tourney it will fill in the 30 days and if it is not it won't.

No matter what everyone will continue to have their opinions and what one side says is not going to change what the other side thinks.

[Hopscotcher]

So when does this thread run its course? You have the same people saying the same thing over and over trying to make their point or defending their opinion. Same thing over and over and over again and that includes me.

Some think it is a big issue while some don't.

Ultimately it is not hard to navigate through 2 pages or even 3 pages. Even when it was one page the tournaments that people did not want to join would stay at the bottom. If it is a good enough tourney it will fill in the 30 days and if it is not it won't.

No matter what everyone will continue to have their opinions and what one side says is not going to change what the other side thinks.

I'm not sure I agree with that!

[Moya]

As for me: I havent't been in the "create/join tournament" for a long time just because i hate filtering the tournaments for the ones i like because there are too many. That's what I disliked from the very beginning on when I started playing tournaments. The only difference is that I was motivated enough to go through all of that nerve rumbling tournament filtering and reading every single post to get to know what tournament it is and what the person organizing it wants from me as a player.

Today the only thing left is that I want to find nice tournaments fast and I am not willing to do that anymore just because of the sheer mass of tournaments.

Don't get me wrong. I admire your work and contribution to this community and I absolutely love how you run them and that you run them fast and organized etc. If your type of tournament (the very small and fast filling ones) were my taste I would join them all. But that's not the point here, is it? Guess we figured that out a long time ago in this thread.

So get your brains working on a solution ladies.

[HighlanderAttack]

Then maybe if it could be done, be able to sort by posting date. Even if you checked create/join once a week if you could sort by date you would not need to read any of the older posts.

I do this in my mind--I try to check daily--if it is Jan 15th and I know I checked on the 13th then I just look for posts created on the 14th and 15th.

I don't think it is hard to navigate, but anything that can make it easier could be helpful. I have to remember how involved I am in joining and creating. To me all this is second nature.

[72o]

FYI, I just canceled 11 tournaments that had not started within the 30 allotted days.

Waaay off topic, but,

How many of those were colton's? In a quick scan through the abandoned tournaments I see at least 6 belonging to him.

[denominator]

FYI, I just canceled 11 tournaments that had not started within the 30 allotted days.

Waaay off topic, but,

How many of those were colton's? In a quick scan through the abandoned tournaments I see at least 6 belonging to him.

1 of them was colton's, but what is your point?

The interesting thing that I see out of that is that 6 of the 11 all fall into the category of tournaments that we're discussing here - numerous tournaments created at the same time by the same organizer with (almost exactly) the same settings. They're all 32 player tournaments in which you must win 2 4 player games and then a best of 3 1v1s to win, the only difference between them being that the map changes for each tournament.

All 6 picked up 16-27 players before running out of time, and I notice some interesting trends appearing.

Of those 123 spots, there are only 36 players involved in the tournaments. In fact, if you look at all 10 of them, there are about 8 players in each one, and about 10 more in at least 5. Sure, the tournaments fill quickly, but that's because it's the same players playing in all of them.

Half of the players in the 16 player 1v1 style tournaments always play every 16 player 1v1 tournament. Which means there isn't high demand for it, simply that you have cornered an audience.

Many of the same players that signed up for all of JR's 1v1 series also signed up for all of LW's Beta series. The difference is that with twice the players to fill, the tournaments simply don't.

What it comes down to is that we have about 10 players who will play in nearly every tournament posted. This includes the long years+ marathons and it includes the quick hitting 1v1 16 player showdowns. You can typically figure out who these players are because Blitzy has created this nice list.

However, once you take these players out of the equation, the 16 player tournaments are at a significant advantage. They now only have to fill 6 spots with randoms instead of the 22 of a 32 player tournament, or even more. To me, LW's Beta map series shows exactly why there need to be limits on the number of created tournaments at the same time. Half of them went to abandoned because they couldn't fill in time, plus it flooded the forum with a pile of identical tournaments.

[SuicidalSnowman]

Denominator, thank you for the interesting research and reasoned approach.

I am still not sure I totally agree, but it seems like meaningful addition to this thread. I still am not sure that I am convinced the responsibility for filling tournaments lies outside of the organizer for each particular one, but I sincerely appreciate your ability to take a reasoned approach, and to not try to bend numbers to fit your point of view so far that they no longer resemble anything useful.

[b00060]

Denominator, look again. Those 32 player tournamnets would have easily filled. I choose to cancel the tournamnets based on this thread and the fact that players like you, who have partaken of my tournamnets on more than one occasion, have the audacity to bitch and moan about multiple tournamnets being created. You should be ashamned of yourself you hipocrite. I took no pleasure in cacnelling my tournamnets and have appologized to those players that were expecting the tournmants, but have decided I am no longer wasting my time on CC tryig to make it more fun for other players when the site is filled with people like you who only bitch and do not do anything yourself to help this site flourish.

And as far as NIghtstrike adding that post, when he knew that 6 of those 11 were cancelled beccasue of this thread and his completelly biased support, just goes to fuel the fire that I have for those who do not appreciate what the few tournamnet organiozers, who have been obviousally targeted here, have done.

[Night Strike]

Denominator, look again. Those 32 player tournamnets would have easily filled. I choose to cancel the tournamnets based on this thread and the fact that players like you, who have partaken of my tournamnets on more than one occasion, have the audacity to bitch and moan about multiple tournamnets being created. You should be ashamned of yourself you hipocrite. I took no pleasure in cacnelling my tournamnets and have appologized to those players that were expecting the tournmants, but have decided I am no longer wasting my time on CC tryig to make it more fun for other players when the site is filled with people like you who only bitch and do not do anything yourself to help this site flourish.

And as far as NIghtstrike adding that post, when he knew that 6 of those 11 were cancelled beccasue of this thread and his completelly biased support, just goes to fuel the fire that I have for those who do not appreciate what the few tournamnet organiozers, who have been obviousally targeted here, have done.

NONE of those tournaments I canceled (and denominator referenced) were yours (or canceled because of this thread).

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Denominator, look again. Those 32 player tournamnets would have easily filled. I choose to cancel the tournamnets based on this thread and the fact that players like you, who have partaken of my tournamnets on more than one occasion, have the audacity to bitch and moan about multiple tournamnets being created. You should be ashamned of yourself you hipocrite. I took no pleasure in cacnelling my tournamnets and have appologized to those players that were expecting the tournmants, but have decided I am no longer wasting my time on CC tryig to make it more fun for other players when the site is filled with people like you who only bitch and do not do anything yourself to help this site flourish.

And as far as NIghtstrike adding that post, when he knew that 6 of those 11 were cancelled beccasue of this thread and his completelly biased support, just goes to fuel the fire that I have for those who do not appreciate what the few tournamnet organiozers, who have been obviousally targeted here, have done.

bingo. Its been like that for all the years I been here. Its always beat up the people that dedicate time and effort and entertain those that are problems and will be gone next month.

[denominator]

Denominator, look again. Those 32 player tournamnets would have easily filled. I choose to cancel the tournamnets based on this thread and the fact that players like you, who have partaken of my tournamnets on more than one occasion, have the audacity to bitch and moan about multiple tournamnets being created. You should be ashamned of yourself you hipocrite. I took no pleasure in cacnelling my tournamnets and have appologized to those players that were expecting the tournmants, but have decided I am no longer wasting my time on CC tryig to make it more fun for other players when the site is filled with people like you who only bitch and do not do anything yourself to help this site flourish.

And as far as NIghtstrike adding that post, when he knew that 6 of those 11 were cancelled beccasue of this thread and his completelly biased support, just goes to fuel the fire that I have for those who do not appreciate what the few tournamnet organiozers, who have been obviousally targeted here, have done.

None of the tournaments I referenced were any of yours. All 11 of the tournaments that I am talking about are the ones that NightStrike cancelled today because they had not filled in time. It states clearly in the tournament rules that tournaments will have 30 days to fill, and if they don't, they are automatically cancelled. The 6 in question were actually given 35 days (Dec 11 opened, Jan 15 closed) to fill and still didn't.

I have no interest in being baited into a flame war with you. I will openly admit to joining your tournaments because they have been well run and efficient tournaments. Your decision to cancel your tournaments is your decision, regardless of this thread or any other opinions.

I am still going to join and play in tournaments regardless of whether anything changes or not. It's the same as any system where, being the consumer, I am going to have to cope with it no matter how it is run. It is still my right to point out any issues that I see in the system and recommend how to fix it.

[PaulusH]

All 11 of the tournaments that I am talking about are the ones that NightStrike cancelled today because they had not filled in time. It states clearly in the tournament rules that tournaments will have 30 days to fill, and if they don't, they are automatically cancelled. The 6 in question were actually given 35 days (Dec 11 opened, Jan 15 closed) to fill and still didn't.

This complete discussion started at Jan 7 (easy to check for anyone who would like to do). Next step is assuming that the data of denominator is correct (not checked by me). In that case at the start of this dicussion the 30 days were nearly finished for those 11 tournaments. Therefore the best reason to even mention those 11 tournaments is just to manipulate the mindset of people about this subject and clearly it had no realistic relation to this subject.

Personally I expect that there are more often peaks in the number of cancelled and/or abandoned tournaments during holidays and shortly after it. (Should be possible to check, but future values mentioned here in this discussion again depend on the person who will do the statistics.)

[denominator]

All 11 of the tournaments that I am talking about are the ones that NightStrike cancelled today because they had not filled in time. It states clearly in the tournament rules that tournaments will have 30 days to fill, and if they don't, they are automatically cancelled. The 6 in question were actually given 35 days (Dec 11 opened, Jan 15 closed) to fill and still didn't.

This complete discussion started at Jan 7 (easy to check for anyone who would like to do). Next step is assuming that the data of denominator is correct (not checked by me). In that case at the start of this dicussion the 30 days were nearly finished for those 11 tournaments. Therefore the best reason to even mention those 11 tournaments is just to manipulate the mindset of people about this subject and clearly it had no realistic relation to this subject.

The timing of the tournaments has absolutely no relevance. I could go and dig up an older set of cancelled tournaments, or I could wait until 30 days after this thread has been around and look at the tournaments then.

The tournaments expiring after 30 days is part of the issue and has significant relevance to the subject. The fact that 11 tournaments just got cancelled due to a lack of interest, out of a pool of about 65 tournaments is frightening. That's 17% of your tournaments being cancelled because nobody is joining.

I am not trying to manipulate the mindset of people. I am simply providing the statistics as they are in the forum.

Personally I expect that there are more often peaks in the number of cancelled and/or abandoned tournaments during holidays and shortly after it. (Should be possible to check, but future values mentioned here in this discussion again depend on the person who will do the statistics.)

I would expect this if we had a shorter signup period. As it stands now, each tournament should be able to get at least 15 days worth of "quality" signup time without the holiday interruption. In my opinion, any organizer should be able to do enough recruiting to fill a tournament in those 2 weeks.

[HighlanderAttack]

OMG what a bunch of crap--

Just like a cook is a bad player and there is not excuse except they are bad

Tournaments that are not filling are tournaments that people don't want to join because the are bad --weather that be because of concept or tourney director.

[Night Strike]

OMG what a bunch of crap--

Just like a cook is a bad player and there is not excuse except they are bad

Tournaments that are not filling are tournaments that people don't want to join because the are bad --weather that be because of concept or tourney director.

Organizer, not director.

[TheMissionary]

The time it takes to fill a tournament can also depend on how large the tournament is intended to be.

[JoshyBoy]

OMG what a bunch of crap--

Just like a cook is a bad player and there is not excuse except they are bad

Tournaments that are not filling are tournaments that people don't want to join because the are bad --weather that be because of concept or tourney director.

Organizer, not director.

Organiser, not organizer.

Sorry, that's the stiff, upper-lipped Brit in me coming out.

I do not think there should be a limit on the amount of tournaments an organiser is running because each individual is different. scipioafricanus1 could not handle running say 6 tournaments at a time, whereas someone like JoJo123 could. It's all individual. I believe that if someone is creating too many tournaments it will soon become quite apparent. Then (and only then) should the mods step in to either offer assistance or put an end to the organisers endeavours.

Cheers, JB

[amazzony]

I do not think there should be a limit on the amount of tournaments an organiser is running because each individual is different. scipioafricanus1 could not handle running say 6 tournaments at a time, whereas someone like JoJo123 could. It's all individual. I believe that if someone is creating too many tournaments it will soon become quite apparent. Then (and only then) should the mods step in to either offer assistance or put an end to the organisers endeavours.

You, like many others, have missed the point of this topic (at least the point that Bones was trying to make at the beginning!). Question isn't how many tournaments somebody can/should run! What is important and point of this topic is that some people consider a problem when a player posts 10 (very very similar) tournaments to Create/Join all at once because it's disrespectful to other organisers.

I don't want the topic to become hot again because it's clear that everything has been said already but had to clear this out. Understand what the topic is about!!

[JoshyBoy]

I do not think there should be a limit on the amount of tournaments an organiser is running because each individual is different. scipioafricanus1 could not handle running say 6 tournaments at a time, whereas someone like JoJo123 could. It's all individual. I believe that if someone is creating too many tournaments it will soon become quite apparent. Then (and only then) should the mods step in to either offer assistance or put an end to the organisers endeavours.

You, like many others, have missed the point of this topic (at least the point that Bones was trying to make at the beginning!). Question isn't how many tournaments somebody can/should run! What is important and point of this topic is that some people consider a problem when a player posts 10 (very very similar) tournaments to Create/Join all at once because it's disrespectful to other organisers.

I don't want the topic to become hot again because it's clear that everything has been said already but had to clear this out. Understand what the topic is about!!

There is nothing wrong with that. If there is, it will be clearly evident that the person is taking the piss and then they will be dealt with.

Breathe now amazzony, go to your happy place.

[amazzony]

What is important and point of this topic is that some people consider a problem when a player posts 10 (very very similar) tournaments to Create/Join all at once because it's disrespectful to other organisers.

There is nothing wrong with that. If there is, it will be clearly evident that the person is taking the piss and then they will be dealt with.

Breathe now amazzony, go to your happy place.

I'm quite happy, just can't understand how everybody has a problem reading properly what Bones' point was

And sorry, but I don't understand what you meant with your answer to my comment.

[JoshyBoy]

Ok ok I'll admit I sometimes can't be bothered reading properly.

What I meant by my reply was that it's absolutely fine creating like 10 almost identical tournaments if it's appropriate. For example, a series with the same game settings but each tournament has different maps. However if someone is just taking the piss, it will be apparent and hopefully dealt with.

[Night Strike]

Ok ok I'll admit I sometimes can't be bothered reading properly.

What I meant by my reply was that it's absolutely fine creating like 10 almost identical tournaments if it's appropriate. For example, a series with the same game settings but each tournament has different maps. However if someone is just taking the piss, it will be apparent and hopefully dealt with.

Can't really "deal with" anything when there isn't a rule against it. The Etiquette rules in the handbook are not steadfast rules like the policies, they are only guidelines/suggestions.

[PaulusH]

Ok ok I'll admit I sometimes can't be bothered reading properly.

What I meant by my reply was that it's absolutely fine creating like 10 almost identical tournaments if it's appropriate. For example, a series with the same game settings but each tournament has different maps. However if someone is just taking the piss, it will be apparent and hopefully dealt with.

Can't really "deal with" anything when there isn't a rule against it. The Etiquette rules in the handbook are not steadfast rules like the policies, they are only guidelines/suggestions.

To my opinion there is totally no reason to deal with 10 (or more) good tournaments.
Focus on the one or two bad tournaments looks to me as a better action plan.