Heaven and hell, whats the difference?

[Falkomagno]

If you have eternal happyness then your mood never goes up or down. Without sadness how can you know what happyness is? Without bad there is no good is frequently said by religious people to say why bad things happen. So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

You're kidding right? Please tell me you are not serious. What is the difference between black and white, hot and cold, fast or slow, fat or skinny, and I could go on and on and on....

Pain is what you feel when you burn your hand on a hot stove...happiness is when you eat the awesome food cooked on that hot stove.

Need anymore examples?...sheesh....

Actually you really miss the point. What is cold, if the only thing that exist is hot?. Without mountains there is no concept of valley. Without sadness, happiness doesn't make any sense. Jeez. Some people are just so simple.

That's not true for me. If I'm having a good day, eating some nice food being with family I just enjoy the moment. I don't think, "This is good because I had a tooth ache once and now I can understand this day.?

In fact I block bad memories. Time's I've been injured and had extreme pain. I know the pain was severe at the time but can't really feel it via memory. Which is a good thing also, but I take being able to walk again for granted just as I did before. I need to have a reason to think, "Wow, I'm lucky I can walk this is great." If your theory was right that the negative helps me enjoy the positive I'd be busy being happy I can walk all the time.

Again...losing the point. If EVERY day you have a "good day", every day you eat pizza with your friends and family, and every day you see that awesome movie, and every day you are just looking the beach...if every day it's like that, it will not be a good day anymore. It's a good day because, compared with others really normal or shitty days, that day, that specifically special day is different and is good itself. You got it? Without bad moments, the good moments are nonsense.

You should read some of Khalil Gibran and maybe you can understand better. So, a place of eternal happiness, it’s like a place without any other relative value, and is not different of a place of eternal pain...

What is cold, if the only thing that exist is hot?.

Actually there is no such thing as cold. That is only a discription given so we can express a lack of heat.

Well, that's physics, and it's partially truth. But to say "there is not such a thing as cold” it's exactly the point. An ice cube is cold, but only compared with our sense of heat. It’s a cold thing when you touched, and its cold compared with a melted piece of cheese. But it’s really hot compared with the solid mercury for example. It’s cold because there is a reference temperatures, and you can compare with others states of thermodynamic interactions.

So, in a universe where all the temperature is, -273°C or all temperature is 40000°C, well, if no other thing is higher or lower that those values, well neither of those hypothetical universes can be considered as cold or hot. And there is no difference in our perception, in a huge scale of time, of those universes.

[Woodruff]

That's not true for me. If I'm having a good day, eating some nice food being with family I just enjoy the moment. I don't think, "This is good because I had a tooth ache once and now I can understand this day.?

In fact I block bad memories. Time's I've been injured and had extreme pain. I know the pain was severe at the time but can't really feel it via memory. Which is a good thing also, but I take being able to walk again for granted just as I did before. I need to have a reason to think, "Wow, I'm lucky I can walk this is great." If your theory was right that the negative helps me enjoy the positive I'd be busy being happy I can walk all the time.

Again...losing the point. If EVERY day you have a "good day", every day you eat pizza with your friends and family, and every day you see that awesome movie, and every day you are just looking the beach...if every day it's like that, it will not be a good day anymore. It's a good day because, compared with others really normal or shitty days, that day, that specifically special day is different and is good itself. You got it? Without bad moments, the good moments are nonsense.
You should read some of Khalil Gibran and maybe you can understand better. So, a place of eternal happiness, it’s like a place without any other relative value, and is not different of a place of eternal pain...

I'm afraid I find myself in agreement with 2dimes. Just because I haven't experienced heartache doesn't mean my feelings of love for another don't feel just as strong and vibrant.

[2dimes]

Again...losing the point. If EVERY day you have a "good day", every day you eat pizza with your friends and family, and every day you see that awesome movie, and every day you are just looking the beach...if every day it's like that, it will not be a good day anymore. It's a good day because, compared with others really normal or shitty days, that day, that specifically special day is different and is good itself. You got it? Without bad moments, the good moments are nonsense.

You should read some of Khalil Gibran and maybe you can understand better. So, a place of eternal happiness, it’s like a place without any other relative value, and is not different of a place of eternal pain...

Ridiculous, hit your penis with a hammer and think happy thoughts. I assure you it won't be a good day. I'll take the suffering of becoming bored with being happy anytime, everytime, thanks. I know what you're trying for but disagree. Even the worst empty sex is better than going to work and having a good day. So for me perspective is a factor but less so than the event. I'm going to guess you've just never had a bad day to say that, what you think is a bad day is just one that isn't as good as the perfect ones. Lucky you I guess.

[jay_a2j]

So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

temperature

[hecter]

So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

temperature

You get used to temperature pretty quick... When it's 5C out in March, I'll go out in a t-shirt. When it's 5C out in October, I'm wearing a jacket.

[Falkomagno]

Again...losing the point. If EVERY day you have a "good day", every day you eat pizza with your friends and family, and every day you see that awesome movie, and every day you are just looking the beach...if every day it's like that, it will not be a good day anymore. It's a good day because, compared with others really normal or shitty days, that day, that specifically special day is different and is good itself. You got it? Without bad moments, the good moments are nonsense.

You should read some of Khalil Gibran and maybe you can understand better. So, a place of eternal happiness, it’s like a place without any other relative value, and is not different of a place of eternal pain...

Ridiculous, hit your penis with a hammer and think happy thoughts. I assure you it won't be a good day. I'll take the suffering of becoming bored with being happy anytime, everytime, thanks. I know what you're trying for but disagree. Even the worst empty sex is better than going to work and having a good day. So for me perspective is a factor but less so than the event. I'm going to guess you've just never had a bad day to say that, what you think is a bad day is just one that isn't as good as the perfect ones. Lucky you I guess.

Again, wrong. Well, maybe I'm just expecting too much about you. But I’m going to keep trying.

You said:

Even the worst empty sex is better than going to work and having a good day

I totally agree. Now, imagine a orgasm that last for, 2 minutes. Awesome isn’t it? Now, its lasting 5 hours. Well, can be still awesome, but you have to worry about it. Now, it last 2 weeks, and is a totally hell. No, it last one whole year, and you just get used to it, probably. But you can grasp that in this moment is not like the pinnacle of happiness right? If you have an orgasm that last the eternity, well, you cannot say that is good or bad. Hammering your penis, in the other hand, after a very small span of time, can be deathly I guess. If not, I think that the pain of having the penis hammered, and assuming that in somehow the penis still exist after a month of being chased, after 200 hundred years doesn’t make any sense, and it simply stop exist (the pain I mean, not the penis).

Don’t put your thoughts as a stubborn way of contradict me and try to get the message that I’m trying to describe, maybe then you can have an illumination moment, that kind of moment when you understands something, it makes click in your mind, and you feel that you are better than the man a moment ago. Or still drinking beer and watching American Idol.

[CreepersWiener]

Very easy...

Heaven = putting dick into coolwhip whipped topping

Hell = putting your dick into boiling oil

[2dimes]

Simple just go to the hospital when you hit willie with the hammer, then you won't die from the shock. Make sure you really crank it. Once you're healed and get out ice cream will taste better. Right?

I have had two cystoscopys, the first one with the good old steel shaft. It doesn't make one of those satisfying urine episodes any better even though they are much better than the first one after the procedure. They are no better then a good one from before that procedure. If your, "Pleasure is better after pain." theory was correct that would be a perfect spot for it if you ask me.

[AAFitz]

no heaven, no hell.

only variations of punishment would be possible. No creator, who is infinitely pure, could allow unfairness to survive eternity, because that is not pure Good...it is practically evil itself.

we dont even have a justice system made by man to be as harsh.

any reward, penalty, or simply lack of reward, would be given out in absolute direct proportion to the good/bad a soul did on earth. There is no other logical way. If you lived a life, and were twice as good as someone else, and sacrificed 10 times as much for others, its unreasonable to think if they were good enough, they would sneak in and get all you get. It isnt fair, it isnt good, and its so unfair as to possibly be evil...or at least too evil for any Good God to construct, or allow.

No, an infinite scale, that only an omnipotent creator could understand and know instantaneously.

It still seems very unlikely mind you. Of the tests for the after world, this one sure would seem to be odd.

[2dimes]

No one deserves Heaven fitz, we're all scum.

Matthew 20 is a story atributed to Jesus, (I have no problem believing he told it. Regardless...) it talks about us thinking of heaven as unfair because everyone gets the same reward.

EDIT: The final sentence in that chapter suggests you're right and I'm wrong, "So the last shall be first, and the first last." You do get a better spot in heaven if you're a better servent.

[john9blue]

no heaven, no hell.

only variations of punishment would be possible. No creator, who is infinitely pure, could allow unfairness to survive eternity, because that is not pure Good...it is practically evil itself.

we dont even have a justice system made by man to be as harsh.

any reward, penalty, or simply lack of reward, would be given out in absolute direct proportion to the good/bad a soul did on earth. There is no other logical way. If you lived a life, and were twice as good as someone else, and sacrificed 10 times as much for others, its unreasonable to think if they were good enough, they would sneak in and get all you get. It isnt fair, it isnt good, and its so unfair as to possibly be evil...or at least too evil for any Good God to construct, or allow.

No, an infinite scale, that only an omnipotent creator could understand and know instantaneously.

It still seems very unlikely mind you. Of the tests for the after world, this one sure would seem to be odd.

This seems like it would be good. I've always thought even the douchiest douchebags I've ever met might not deserve an eternity of torture!

[tzor]

So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

temperature

That's another genreral fallicy about heaven and hell. Everyone knows about fires in hell, but what about heaven? Well the angels closest to God are literally on fire; they are called the Seraphim (The name Seraphim means "the burning ones.") "It is said that such a bright light emanates from them that nothing, not even other angelic beings, can look upon them. It is also said that there are four of them surrounding God's throne, where they burn eternally from love and zeal for God."

[DAZMCFC]

Hugh I know you're in hell at the moment, because the mighty 'gers beat your precious team.

next time I'm in Glasgow I'll buy you a pint to cheer you up.

[2dimes]

I've always thought even the douchiest douchebags I've ever met might not deserve an eternity of torture!

I don't know but I think that if one ends up in the lake of fire it consumes them and they don't get some special body that can endure the flames for eternity just to be tortured for ever. There's nothing in the bible that indicates that either. I'm pretty sure that's an exageration by the religious, "Yew better watch it and do what we tell you to." people.

What it says is the fire burns forever, not whom ever gets put in it. Maybe the lake of fire is those seraphim? Who knows, there's not much point in discussing it. If a guy's heading there they are probably in denial and if you're looking it up it's most likely not going to be your problem.

There's another punishment most people never seem to talk about, I guess it's not scary enough to be considered when you're threatening people, outer darkness.

[pmchugh]

Hugh I know you're in hell at the moment, because the mighty 'gers beat your precious team.

next time I'm in Glasgow I'll buy you a pint to cheer you up.

Haha as long as its only one

[Woodruff]

There's another punishment most people never seem to talk about, I guess it's not scary enough to be considered when you're threatening people, outer darkness.

Utter darkness combined with silence is plenty scary. In fact, it's one of the most effective (of a group of largely ineffective things) means of torture.

[Falkomagno]

Sometimes it feels like a sphere in a universe of coins.

[THORNHEART]

HEAVEN= NICE PLACE

HELL=SULTANOFSUREAL/WOODRUFF WILL BE THERE

[Woodruff]

HEAVEN= NICE PLACE
HELL=SULTANOFSUREAL/WOODRUFF WILL BE THERE

Brilliant. Simply brilliant!

[DAZMCFC]

Hugh I know you're in hell at the moment, because the mighty 'gers beat your precious team.

next time I'm in Glasgow I'll buy you a pint to cheer you up.

Haha as long as its only one

haha, I forgot you can't handle your beer.

[daddy1gringo]

OK, I thought this answered the OP's question pretty well, but nobody ever dealt with it except one post that shunted the train of thought onto Star Trek. So I'm posting it again:

If you have eternal happyness then your mood never goes up or down. Without sadness how can you know what happyness is? Without bad there is no good is frequently said by religious people to say why bad things happen. So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

Despite what some others say, I think this is a valid question. It points out the ridiculousness of the traditional cartoon image of Heaven: sitting around on clouds with harps. Sounds awful boring to me.

Suppose that a child in the womb could observe its own development and theorize about it. She would likely think. "I am developing eyes, so I must be going somewhere that there is light and things to see. I am developing feet so I must be going somewhere that I will have to walk around. I am developing hands, so I must be going someplace where there are things to grasp, and work and play to do with them." and so on.

We spend a lifetime, however long that is, learning, and hopefully developing wisdom and character, for what? Just in time to not need them anymore if there is no Heaven, or if it is just some dormant state. As Shaw says, "Youth is wasted on young people"

Reading between the lines of some passages in the Bible (I assume you direct this question at those of us who read and believe it) indicates that there will be something to do; a family business for which the Father is raising sons and daughters. Whatever it is will demand the wisdom and character the we have developed, and we will be doing it in the manifest presence and close relationship of God, who as tzor mentioned, is love.

1st John 3:2 -- Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Does that help any, p-mack?

[pmchugh]

OK, I thought this answered the OP's question pretty well, but nobody ever dealt with it except one post that shunted the train of thought onto Star Trek. So I'm posting it again:

If you have eternal happyness then your mood never goes up or down. Without sadness how can you know what happyness is? Without bad there is no good is frequently said by religious people to say why bad things happen. So how is eternal happyness any better than eternal pain?

Despite what some others say, I think this is a valid question. It points out the ridiculousness of the traditional cartoon image of Heaven: sitting around on clouds with harps. Sounds awful boring to me.

Suppose that a child in the womb could observe its own development and theorize about it. She would likely think. "I am developing eyes, so I must be going somewhere that there is light and things to see. I am developing feet so I must be going somewhere that I will have to walk around. I am developing hands, so I must be going someplace where there are things to grasp, and work and play to do with them." and so on.

We spend a lifetime, however long that is, learning, and hopefully developing wisdom and character, for what? Just in time to not need them anymore if there is no Heaven, or if it is just some dormant state. As Shaw says, "Youth is wasted on young people"

Reading between the lines of some passages in the Bible (I assume you direct this question at those of us who read and believe it) indicates that there will be something to do; a family business for which the Father is raising sons and daughters. Whatever it is will demand the wisdom and character the we have developed, and we will be doing it in the manifest presence and close relationship of God, who as tzor mentioned, is love.

1st John 3:2 -- Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Does that help any, p-mack?

I kind of stopped responding in this thread cause I don't know if i can take myself seriously anymore

But since you asked directly.

You start off well but in the end your answer is what I would technically call mumbo-jumbo. A "family buisness"? Can you not do any better than that? Then I nice wee bit of scripture quoted to back it up of course.

In an "eternity", every task or purpose you could possibly have would be repeated over and over an infinite number of times which would eventually lead to a bland and boring existance IMO.

[jonesthecurl]

There is an old joke about heaven and hell. In hell everyone is seated at a table with bowls of rice in front of them, but their chopsticks are so long they can’t stretch out their arms long enough to grab the rice from their bowls, never mind bringing the rice to their lips. In heaven, everyone is seated at a table with bowls of rice in front of them and the same chopsticks but they are all happy because they all feed each other.

I like this. Never heard it before. A good story.

It's ok unless you're rice-allergic...

[jonesthecurl]

Heaven is a barrel of beer and a willing woman.
Hell is the same, except one has a hole where it shouldn't and the other...