ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[karelpietertje]

I read about the good news this morning!
Congratulations America, finally a step in the right direction

Cheers, KP

[notyou2]

I read about the good news this morning!
Congratulations America, finally a step in the right direction

Cheers, KP

[Night Strike]

I read about the good news this morning!
Congratulations America, finally a step in the right direction

Cheers, KP

So it's a step back towards the European political and economic model that we left 235 years ago. Sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

[notyou2]

Glad you are finally in agreement Night

[Night Strike]

Let the legal challenges to this giant government intrusion commence.

[notyou2]

I predict some of the naysayers are going to pop blood vessels in their head, and/or have heart attacks over this deal to give people the medical aid they need.

[PLAYER57832]

Let the legal challenges to this giant government intrusion commence.

yes, since you are so against government waste, LET's add to it! Sounds like a perfect use of our taxdollars.

You don't happen to like a bill that our elected representatives pass, so kick and scream at the Supreme Court.
hmm. sounds more like what my three year olds thinks of as "fairness".

[spurgistan]

I read about the good news this morning!
Congratulations America, finally a step in the right direction

Cheers, KP

So it's a step back towards the European political and economic model that we left 235 years ago. Sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

Little known fact: the American revolution had nothing to do with health care.

[Timminz]

I can't wait for the rapture. Our planet will be a much more inclusive and enlightened one, once the nut-bars all fly up into their spaceship.

[thegreekdog]

After reviewing the bill and comments, I found you skipped some important details.

(2) People whose employers provide insurance
Now - Get insurance
Post-Bill - Get insurance (and have to pay tax depending upon the insurance)

Small businesses will now get a tax break to help offset purchases.

(3) People who do not have insurance but can afford insurance
Now - No insurance, but can pay for shit
Post-Bill - Have to get insurance or pay a fine

#1 since companies cannot exclude people, the number who can now afford insurance will increase. Subsidies for low income folks will also help.

The fine will help offset payments for the care those without insurance will require. Right now, the penalties are pretty low. They are likely to increase, at least for larger companies.

(4) People who cannot afford insurance but live above the poverty line
Now - No insurance, have to pay for their own procedures or else go bankrupt
Post-Bill - Have to pay for their own insurance and get a subsidy the government

You don't see this as a major improvement?

What details did I skip? I noted that small businesses get a credit and subsidies. Stop accusing me of things because you don't agree with me.

Companies that have over 50 employees cannot not have health insurance; companies under 50 employees can not have health insurance for their employees. There are also people, for example a whole lot of college and graduate students, who don't have health insurance and don't want health insurance. I don't care about that anyway, I'll concede whatever you said on that stuff.

What I care about is that the only thing that WILL change in 2014 (!) is that the people who cannot afford health insurance and who live above the poverty line will have subsidies from the government to get insurance. This is certainly a major improvement because now (and by now I mean 2014) 100% of US citizens will have insurance. However... and this is the big one... say it with me now... it cost $950 billion. WHAT... THE... f*ck!!! WHY? WHY DOES IT COST $950 BILLION?!?!?!?!

[Neoteny]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

[Snorri1234]

What details did I skip? I noted that small businesses get a credit and subsidies. Stop accusing me of things because you don't agree with me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319

WHAT... THE... f*ck!!! WHY? WHY DOES IT COST $950 BILLION?!?!?!?!

Because you skipped over all the stuff that was not neccesarily about who gets insurance now?

[Neoteny]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

I would also like to note that a significant portion of Democrats who see the bill as a bad thing probably see it that way because it is not liberal enough.

[jay_a2j]

I read about the good news this morning!
Congratulations America, finally a step in the right direction

Cheers, KP

So it's a step back towards the European political and economic model that we left 235 years ago. Sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

Little known fact: the American revolution had nothing to do with health care.

No, but it had a lot to do with an overbearing, meddling government that we said "NO!" to.

[thegreekdog]

What details did I skip? I noted that small businesses get a credit and subsidies. Stop accusing me of things because you don't agree with me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319

WHAT... THE... f*ck!!! WHY? WHY DOES IT COST $950 BILLION?!?!?!?!

Because you skipped over all the stuff that was not neccesarily about who gets insurance now?

You guys are ridiculous. I don't even know what to do anymore.

In my original post in response to this bill being past I mentioned most, if not all, but definitely the most costly and effective parts, of the bill.

Why did you post that article? Is there stuff the bill does now? Of course, I noted that in the post I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

I skipped over nothing. How do you not understand this? I'm not arguing the bill is unconstitutional, I'm not arguing we don't need healthcare. I'm saying that the bill costs $950 billion and the meat of the bill, the important part of the bill, the stuff that everyone has been going on about for 50 years, doesn't happen until 2014. BUT IT COSTS $950 BILLION!!!

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I don't know what happens in 2020, you guys don't know what happens in 2020. I'm not sure you guys even know how to read, really. I think you just guess at what people type here and then post random links and type random letters that somehow end up being something legible. I wish you guys would at least have the wherewithal to think or something; or maybe to understand how things work. I don't know. Frustration has set in. Peace.

[jay_a2j]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

Not buying it. BUT look at the dems though! almost 80% favor government control! You don't say? The government already gives them the working mans money.... gimme, gimme, gimme... I'd be so ashamed to be a democrat.

[thegreekdog]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

I think you need to read the whole article/poll, specifically the part that says a majority were against it until after the bill was passed.

[spurgistan]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

I think you need to read the whole article/poll, specifically the part that says a majority were against it until after the bill was passed.

I was about to post the Gallup poll. Why should the fact that people (marginally) liked the bill after they saw what was actually voted on (versus what they were told was in it) diminish that?

[Neoteny]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

I think you need to read the whole article/poll, specifically the part that says a majority were against it until after the bill was passed.

They were indeed. What does that mean exactly? Americans are fickle? Which is a more accurate representation? Does it really matter to say a majority are for or against this bill since we clearly can't make up our mind (and most of us haven't actually read it)? How about we actually discuss the bill rather than spouting about how many people are on our side (not targeting you, greek, of course)?

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

Not buying it. BUT look at the dems though! almost 80% favor government control! You don't say? The government already gives them the working mans money.... gimme, gimme, gimme... I'd be so ashamed to be a democrat.

Lol good god you are so fucking ridiculous. I thought you were ignoring us?

[PLAYER57832]

After reviewing the bill and comments, I found you skipped some important details.

(2) People whose employers provide insurance
Now - Get insurance
Post-Bill - Get insurance (and have to pay tax depending upon the insurance)

Small businesses will now get a tax break to help offset purchases.

(3) People who do not have insurance but can afford insurance
Now - No insurance, but can pay for shit
Post-Bill - Have to get insurance or pay a fine

#1 since companies cannot exclude people, the number who can now afford insurance will increase. Subsidies for low income folks will also help.

The fine will help offset payments for the care those without insurance will require. Right now, the penalties are pretty low. They are likely to increase, at least for larger companies.

(4) People who cannot afford insurance but live above the poverty line
Now - No insurance, have to pay for their own procedures or else go bankrupt
Post-Bill - Have to pay for their own insurance and get a subsidy the government

You don't see this as a major improvement?

What details did I skip? I noted that small businesses get a credit and subsidies. Stop accusing me of things because you don't agree with me.

I missed it, sorry.

Companies that have over 50 employees cannot not have health insurance; companies under 50 employees can not have health insurance for their employees. There are also people, for example a whole lot of college and graduate students, who don't have health insurance and don't want health insurance. I don't care about that anyway, I'll concede whatever you said on that stuff.

People who work for those companies will be able to buy insurance privately through exchanges at lower rates than are offered for single payors now.

The college students who "don't want" insurance are part of the problem. They wind up on our roles when they get in car crashes, wreck their bikes or wind up having to have emergency appendectimis. And, most do want insurance. Now they can get on their folk's policies up to 26 instead of just 23 and even if not a fulltime student.

What I care about is that the only thing that WILL change in 2014 (!) is that the people who cannot afford health insurance and who live above the poverty line will have subsidies from the government to get insurance. This is certainly a major improvement because now (and by now I mean 2014) 100% of US citizens will have insurance. However... and this is the big one... say it with me now... it cost $950 billion. WHAT... THE... f*ck!!! WHY? WHY DOES IT COST $950 BILLION?!?!?!?!

More people covered means less money that hospitals and doctors have to pass on to the rest of us to cover the uninsured. More covered people means better preventative care, so problems are caught early when its cheaper. More people covered means insurance companies now have more people on their roles. Those with pre-existing conditions will be a negative, but the many who now feel they "don't need" insurance because they are still healthy will balance that.

But, we have been through this before. It obvious you just disagree. Only time will really tell the truth. I can cite the CBO, other experts until I am blue in the face, but if you believe other people then you believe other people. I cannot offer anything new.

I do want to add that I am not as thrilled about this bill as I was about its first presentation.

[rockfist]

Neo,

I wonder if some people were happy it passed because they thought the nation would move on to the topic of jobs and the economy. I wish the national discourse could do that. Unfortunately, I was against this bill and if those opposed to the idea of a national healthcare system allow the discourse to change to another topic it will cause our small govenrment cause to lose momentum so I think we are stuck on this topic for the forseeable future.I wonder if some of the anger that was directed at the Democrats for bringing up healthcare instead of jobs will now shift to Republicans for keeping the topic on healthcare.

Maybe that is just a random observation. I haven't studied it.

[Neoteny]

Neo,

I wonder if some people were happy it passed because they thought the nation would move on to the topic of jobs and the economy. I wish the national discourse could do that. Unfortunately, I was against this bill and if those opposed to the idea of a national healthcare system allow the discourse to change to another topic it will cause our small govenrment cause to lose momentum so I think we are stuck on this topic for the forseeable future.I wonder if some of the anger that was directed at the Democrats for bringing up healthcare instead of jobs will now shift to Republicans for keeping the topic on healthcare.

Maybe that is just a random observation. I haven't studied it.

It's possible, but I don't know how strong of an effect that would have. I reckon it isn't strong.

[PLAYER57832]

I would like to post this in response to the people spouting how the bill was passed despite the "fact" that "Americans don't want it."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim- ... ssage.aspx

I think you need to read the whole article/poll, specifically the part that says a majority were against it until after the bill was passed.

The majority (by a moderate to slim margin, depending on pole) have been against the bill. However, when you query them about what is in the bill individually, they were alwys in favor of all its parts.

Sadly, a lot of the parts that most people really wanted were deleted, but. .its done now.

[rockfist]

The people opposed to the bill tend to have stronger feelings about it than the supporters. That sometimes leads them to do stupid things, but it it means the people opposed to the bill will be very likely to vote in November. The battle will be won and lost based on if those moderately in support or slightly in support of the bill can turn up at the polls. If they don't the Democrats will get snot knocked. If they do it will be a much closer election.

That being said if they are slightly or moderately in support of this bill other issues may be more important when they enter the voting booth. However, some of the idiots opposing the bill may drive moderate supporters of the healthcare bill to vote against them regardless of their stance on other issues.

[Nobunaga]

...However, when you query them about what is in the bill individually, they were alwys in favor of all its parts....

... Yeah, you're right. Personally, I'm a big fan of the cash grants for Stupack. Sweet stuff.

... I'll sleep better tonight knowing his vote was bought for a good cause.

http://www.nrcc.org/codered/dealwatch/?p=52

... <edit> The tax-funded abortion gone mainstream rocks as well.

...