Better off: Homosexual or Dead?

[Uncle Waldo]

Yeah, I misread some shit. My brains are fried. I'm a mess. It's an excuse but a valid one. Been a loooooooooooooooooooooooong 12 years. My only crime..... Do I really need to say it again? It's getting old. What is worth reiterating is the FACT that these last four years for me have been so friggen retarded, assesnine, jackass, and insane (Me being the victim not the perpetrator), that there are no words, no anagies, no metaphores no nothing that could put it into it's proper perspective.

[john9blue]

The poll is rather close! I wonder which side will win?

[Woodruff]

Fine, ill just accuse you of being an unpatriotic coward who called people asked by their country to kill to protect them as murderers then. And the sinful I mentioned has nothing to do with religion.

But dont worry those brave men and women that fight to protect your life and liberty need no thanks from cowards, and the certainly are not concerned about what they think.

Hey, we're not selectively picking out parts from our old text to hate on people. lucy didn't call soldiers murderers, because that would mean he gave a flying f*ck about these "sins".

If I point out that jay and others like him aren't stoning people for wearing different fabrics or working on a sabath it doesn't mean I'm advocating that those are reprehensible sins and we should get back to doing that.

Well he may or may not care about the sin of murderer, but theres no question he is calling those who kill in the military murderers with the statement he made.

He did later change it because he completely misunderstood what Jay was saying...which was really nothing....but theres no question he calls people in the military who kill as murderers.

Is it really cowardice to believe that all wars are unlawful? If one takes that stance, then killing by soldiers is by definition unlawful...thus making them murderers.

That doesn't seem to me to fit the idea of "cowardice", really.

[AAFitz]

The poll is rather close! I wonder which side will win?

There is no winning in a poll like this. That the question even need be asked means we have all, already lost.

[tzor]

I do not abide by the morals of a book written 2,000 years ago.

But....it's the word of god. It says so itself.

Really? Where in the Bible does it say that?

Double got you here ... point one the only real reference to the "Word" is in John's Gospel and the "Word" refers to Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Second got you: The "Bible" is a scripturally modern invention, the correct term at the time was "the scriptures" which in Jewish tradition was divided into the Law, the Prophets and the other Writings. The list of books in scripture was never put into a canonical book; debates over what should be included lasted for centuries. The Didache was in the early lists but not in the later ones, for example.

[lgoasklucyl]

This poll and topic is different than what they actually wrote. They said they'd be more concerned about their kid becoming gay, meaning there's probably a much bigger chance (in their opinion) of it happening, as opposed to the slim chance of being wounded or dead. It doesn't mean they'd prefer a dead son over a gay one. You should have read it more carefully before going on your soapbox.

Seems like he misunderstood quite a few things while reading on this one.

Regardless of where his priorities lie or in what context he meant 'concerned', an individual expressing a greater deal of concern for his child being homosexual over their safety is disturbing. Any individual who places a greater amount of concern for sexual preference over life in any context needs their head examined.

Fine, ill just accuse you of being an unpatriotic coward who called people asked by their country to kill to protect them as murderers then. And the sinful I mentioned has nothing to do with religion.

But dont worry those brave men and women that fight to protect your life and liberty need no thanks from cowards, and the certainly are not concerned about what they think.

Hey, we're not selectively picking out parts from our old text to hate on people. lucy didn't call soldiers murderers, because that would mean he gave a flying f*ck about these "sins".

If I point out that jay and others like him aren't stoning people for wearing different fabrics or working on a sabath it doesn't mean I'm advocating that those are reprehensible sins and we should get back to doing that.

Well he may or may not care about the sin of murderer, but theres no question he is calling those who kill in the military murderers with the statement he made.

He did later change it because he completely misunderstood what Jay was saying...which was really nothing....but theres no question he calls people in the military who kill as murderers.

Is it really cowardice to believe that all wars are unlawful? If one takes that stance, then killing by soldiers is by definition unlawful...thus making them murderers.

That doesn't seem to me to fit the idea of "cowardice", really.

Exactly.

Who are you, Fitz, to run rampant and judge everyone based on what you find morally correct? As an individual who is strongly morally opposed to war, I am allowed to have a completely different outlook on the actions of those partaking in said endeavor. You can defend people taking the lives of others all you want, but I, personally, do not feel it can ever be justified morally. Deem my inability to justify killing as morally acceptable 'cowardice' if you like, it's not going to make me feel any differently on the subject.

[Snorri1234]

Fine, ill just accuse you of being an unpatriotic coward who called people asked by their country to kill to protect them as murderers then. And the sinful I mentioned has nothing to do with religion.

But dont worry those brave men and women that fight to protect your life and liberty need no thanks from cowards, and the certainly are not concerned about what they think.

Hey, we're not selectively picking out parts from our old text to hate on people. lucy didn't call soldiers murderers, because that would mean he gave a flying f*ck about these "sins".

If I point out that jay and others like him aren't stoning people for wearing different fabrics or working on a sabath it doesn't mean I'm advocating that those are reprehensible sins and we should get back to doing that.

Well he may or may not care about the sin of murderer, but theres no question he is calling those who kill in the military murderers with the statement he made.

He did later change it because he completely misunderstood what Jay was saying...which was really nothing....but theres no question he calls people in the military who kill as murderers.

He's calling them killers. Which is perfectly okay because killing is a part of armies.

[Snorri1234]

I do not abide by the morals of a book written 2,000 years ago.

But....it's the word of god. It says so itself.

Really? Where in the Bible does it say that?

Double got you here ... point one the only real reference to the "Word" is in John's Gospel and the "Word" refers to Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Second got you: The "Bible" is a scripturally modern invention, the correct term at the time was "the scriptures" which in Jewish tradition was divided into the Law, the Prophets and the other Writings. The list of books in scripture was never put into a canonical book; debates over what should be included lasted for centuries. The Didache was in the early lists but not in the later ones, for example.

For it to be the word of god it does not have to explicitly refer to itself as such. If it says it is divinely inspired and what god thinks about things then it's the word of god. I mean, I don't write in every post I make "This is my post" but that doesn't mean they're not my posts.


Second point just makes it funnier. Taking everything literally in the bible is silly when it has changed over time to a great degree.

[AAFitz]

Fine, ill just accuse you of being an unpatriotic coward who called people asked by their country to kill to protect them as murderers then. And the sinful I mentioned has nothing to do with religion.

But dont worry those brave men and women that fight to protect your life and liberty need no thanks from cowards, and the certainly are not concerned about what they think.

Hey, we're not selectively picking out parts from our old text to hate on people. lucy didn't call soldiers murderers, because that would mean he gave a flying f*ck about these "sins".

If I point out that jay and others like him aren't stoning people for wearing different fabrics or working on a sabath it doesn't mean I'm advocating that those are reprehensible sins and we should get back to doing that.

Well he may or may not care about the sin of murderer, but theres no question he is calling those who kill in the military murderers with the statement he made.

He did later change it because he completely misunderstood what Jay was saying...which was really nothing....but theres no question he calls people in the military who kill as murderers.

He's calling them killers. Which is perfectly okay because killing is a part of armies.

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did. But this is the quote word for word that was posted:

If your eye causes you to sin it is better to pluck it out than for your entire body to be thrown into the lake of fire.


To answer: Homosexual is better than dieing in sin.

I'm sorry. Is killing people not a sin? Is that not one of the blatantly written commandments? Or do those members of the military in combat roles not do so?

Oh... that's right. Sexual preference is definitely worse than taking someone's life.

Feel free to ignore it, or defend it all you want, but the quote is right there. I for one have no problem pointing out the cowardice for what it is, though I must admit that it could be somewhat accidental, but no less reprehensible.

[Snorri1234]

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did.

Wait...since when is killing not a sin according to teh commandments?

[AAFitz]

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did.

Wait...since when is killing not a sin according to teh commandments?

Are you saying that people who are asked to kill in the military are sinning and going against the word of their God when doing so?

On a side note, the typo is awesome, as teh looks like ten

[AAFitz]

Exactly.

Who are you, Fitz, to run rampant and judge everyone based on what you find morally correct? As an individual who is strongly morally opposed to war, I am allowed to have a completely different outlook on the actions of those partaking in said endeavor. You can defend people taking the lives of others all you want, but I, personally, do not feel it can ever be justified morally. Deem my inability to justify killing as morally acceptable 'cowardice' if you like, it's not going to make me feel any differently on the subject.

You are feel to post your opinion as you wish, and judge the military that risk their lives as murderers as you wish.

I am also perfectly free to consider it cowardice and judge it as I see fit.

Luckily, brave people do make those sacrifices for you, so you can sit back and not kill yourself and to sit back and judge them for providing the security and safety which allows it. Myself, I thank them.

As far as making you feel different... I simply dont care what you think, nor do those who sacrifice their lives for you.

[Snorri1234]

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did.

Wait...since when is killing not a sin according to teh commandments?

Are you saying that people who are asked to kill in the military are sinning and going against the word of their God when doing so?

Uh....yes. Why are they not?

[AAFitz]

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did.

Wait...since when is killing not a sin according to teh commandments?

Are you saying that people who are asked to kill in the military are sinning and going against the word of their God when doing so?

Uh....yes. Why are they not?

Killing to protect ones country, family or in self defense is not a sin. You also are a coward that sits behind the wall of safety they provide and cast stones at their backs.

Again, a reprehensible post...but you too are free to your opinion. You condemn them for that safety, I thank them.

I condemn you however, as does any who understand the sacrifice these men and women make so you can sit on your cushion and type your words. God help you if you ever have to protect someone you love by killing them. I somehow think your view on that being a sin may change. Or not, either way, I dont care. I simply once again thank those that have died, killed and sacrificed, so I can sit here and type out how I feel you are also a coward and sinful beyond its religions connotations of the word.

[john9blue]

Who are you, Fitz, to run rampant and judge everyone based on what you find morally correct?

So is this intentional irony or do you really not see the massive hypocrisy in this statement?

[Snorri1234]

No, hes saying that they are killers and that they are breaking one of the commandments, which would make it a sin. The fact that he nor I nor you may consider it a sin is irrelevant. He is implying that people in the military are sinning by killing and using their own religion to do so...only to combat this post by Jay, which admittedly is incoherent at best...and perhaps why lucy let this slip the way it did.

Wait...since when is killing not a sin according to teh commandments?

Are you saying that people who are asked to kill in the military are sinning and going against the word of their God when doing so?

Uh....yes. Why are they not?

Killing to protect ones country, family or in self defense is not a sin. You also are a coward that sits behind the wall of safety they provide and cast stones at their backs.

Again, a reprehensible post...but you too are free to your opinion. You condemn them for that safety, I thank them.

I condemn you however, as does any who understand the sacrifice these men and women make so you can sit on your cushion and type your words. God help you if you ever have to protect someone you love by killing them. I somehow think your view on that being a sin may change. Or not, either way, I dont care. I simply once again thank those that have died, killed and sacrificed, so I can sit here and type out how I feel you are also a coward and sinful beyond its religions connotations of the word.

What? Since when is pointing out the blatant inconsistency in religion cowardice? Why do you assume I don't support the military?

[AAFitz]

Who are you, Fitz, to run rampant and judge everyone based on what you find morally correct?

So is this intentional irony or do you really not see the massive hypocrisy in this statement?

It is beautifully clear he does not.

What I find many also may miss in the ironic department is that I completely agree with the sentiment of the original post that any person who would rather see his child dead than gay is insane. The fact that as you pointed out they were simply more worried they may be gay, because they were simply did not feel the risk of death was that high is besides the point.

The only thing I object to is a coward calling military sinners for simply providing those very people the safety of not having to kill themselves.

I suppose a lifetime of living under freedom provided by others could make one forget, that the only reason they dont have to go kill, is because others are doing it for them.

[Snorri1234]

Seriously, I'm just baffled.


Killing is a sin according to some religion's holy book --> people in the military kill ---> they are therefore sinners according to that religion.


I point this out and I'm a coward?

[lgoasklucyl]

Who are you, Fitz, to run rampant and judge everyone based on what you find morally correct?

So is this intentional irony or do you really not see the massive hypocrisy in this statement?

I am judging no one based on what I find morally reprehensible, Fitz is. There is no hypocrisy as I am not calling Fitz a coward or judging him for supporting something I find morally wrong.

Seriously, I'm just baffled.

Killing is a sin according to some religion's holy book --> people in the military kill ---> they are therefore sinners according to that religion.

I point this out and I'm a coward?

Holy books, personal beliefs, etc... It doesn't matter where one is coming up with their judgment. In the context of the discussion at hand, anyone saying "they are not sinning because the USA says it's okay" is doing what is referred to as 'picking and choosing', something that seems to run rampant in religious self-defense.

To continue to refer to someone who not only believes all war to be immoral, never mind wars lacking even remotely justifiable cause, a coward for their beliefs is plain arrogant. Sorry, Fitz, not everyone hops on the "War! It's totally necessary for freedom!" bandwagon and finds that just cause to glorify and defend killing.

[natty dread]

So let me get this straight.

Killing is wrong.

Except... if your government tells you to kill, so the government can raid another country and rob it's oil resources, then suddenly killing is not wrong? Somehow, it's not even killing anymore?

Killing another human being is wrong, no matter the justifications. The soldiers themselves know it, or there wouldn't be so many cases of post-traumatic stress among war veterans.

[Skittles!]

10 people say it's better off to be dead? Are you serious?

[ahunda]

I admit, I am not a Christian & it´s a very long time, that I had a Bible in hand. I read it though, and as far as I recall, it states: You shall not kill.

I don´t recall any exceptions from that rule as in "except to protect yourself, your family, property, country, whatever". I certainly don´t recall "except in the name of God".

You guys seriously think, Jesus will wear a "Support your troops" shirt on his Second Coming ?

I was under the impression, he was all about peace & tolerance. About ending violence & wars. That´s why I actually always had sympathy for him & his teachings. Not so much for modern Christians & their hypocrisy though ...

[nagerous]

10 people say it's better off to be dead? Are you serious?

QFT, that's some pretty messed up thinking.

[Skittles!]

10 people say it's better off to be dead? Are you serious?

QFT, that's some pretty messed up thinking.

I was not aware we still lived in the early 20th Century. Or even in the dark ages.

[AAFitz]

I admit, I am not a Christian & it´s a very long time, that I had a Bible in hand. I read it though, and as far as I recall, it states: You shall not kill.

I don´t recall any exceptions from that rule as in "except to protect yourself, your family, property, country, whatever". I certainly don´t recall "except in the name of God".

You guys seriously think, Jesus will wear a "Support your troops" shirt on his Second Coming ?

I was under the impression, he was all about peace & tolerance. About ending violence & wars. That´s why I actually always had sympathy for him & his teachings. Not so much for modern Christians & their hypocrisy though ...

Again, easy for you to say, but if you pay taxes, you pay them to kill for you, so you dont have to, because make no mistake, if someone isnt out there protecting you, and didnt protect you in the past, youd either never have been here, be dead already, or have been killing the whole time yourself.

I myself would absolutely love to see an end to all violence and wars, but if you think telling all our cops and soldiers that they are sinners while killing to protect us is the way to do it....well, good luck. You will certainly be seeing your maker very, very soon. Or worse, you may have to actually defend yourself.