Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

[Phatscotty]

Just showing a clip on this one...

@1:25, you can see the attacks

[PLAYER57832]

Thank you.

[jonesthecurl]

Wow.

[2dimes]

There was a medium sized peacefull protest outside the federal government building when I picked up my wife. Not particularly effective since my wife said. "What's that all about." I wouldn't know either if it were not for this thread. Good work Scott.

[Night Strike]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

[Phatscotty]

Thanks Dimes. Yeah there are protests all over the world, most notably in Turkey, which is a muslim country that has enjoyed a great relationship with Israel. That's why this will be an international crisis...

[2dimes]

I would have liked to check out Turkey and a few others including Syria. I don't know if I'm too late or not yet but can't afford to go right now regardless. I sure did enjoy Egypt though they are pretty moderate my mother inlaw was still worried about me taking her daughter and grand daughter there.

[GabonX]

This whole thing was intended as provocation.

The intent was to either set a precedent whereby ships would be allowed access to deliver materials to Gaza un-inspected and unimpeded, or to create an international incident. They succeeded in the latter.

As Scott pointed out, you can see the attacks on the Israeli's begin before they land on deck. It's interesting that they had an Al Jazeera reporter on the boat, a fact which reinforces the point that the intent behind this incident was to cause a stir..

[Night Strike]

Humanitarians providing aid would NOT immediately attack soldiers.

[PLAYER57832]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

This was absolute staged to bring attention to the matter.

However, claiming that anyone disliking Israel's actions is "anti-semetic" shows a strongly pro-Israel bias. In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

[Night Strike]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

This was absolute staged to bring attention to the matter.

However, claiming that anyone disliking Israel's actions is "anti-semetic" shows a strongly pro-Israel bias. In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

Which the Israeli Defense Ministry said they would allow ALL humanitarian aid to go through the blockade post-inspection. And they've allowed aid to pass through in past months during this same blockade.

[Timminz]

But no cement. You can't have them building homes for their people.

[GabonX]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

That's presumptive on a number of levels..

[GabonX]

But no cement. You can't have them building homes for their people.

That's just plain wrong.

What's more, Israel offered to ferry the supplies to Gaza, but this was refused as it would have been a peaceful way to avert an international incident..

[PLAYER57832]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

That's presumptive on a number of levels..

Explain, please. I would love to see how you justify this one!

[jaimito101]

well this is what the israelis are showing...

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... vS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... YjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... uzOWKxN2co

the palestinean boat was wrong, smuggling weapons and also using violence, if they would have done nothing and peacefully let the israelis take over the boat they would have better proven their point, now its just a case of u asked for it.

[GabonX]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

That's presumptive on a number of levels..

Explain, please. I would love to see how you justify this one!

Maybe you should start by justifying your statement..

[Snorri1234]

well this is what the israelis are showing...

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... vS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... YjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... uzOWKxN2co

the palestinean boat was wrong, smuggling weapons and also using violence, if they would have done nothing and peacefully let the israelis take over the boat they would have better proven their point, now its just a case of u asked for it.

It's not smuggling weapons when it's shit you would normally find on a boat. Claiming that any of those things are weapons is just isanity or paranoia.

Have you ever even been on a boat?

[icedagger]

I'm with snorri on this one. I wouldn't feel safe stepping on a boat without the regulation firebombs/cutlasses in place

[InkL0sed]

well this is what the israelis are showing...

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... vS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... YjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... uzOWKxN2co

the palestinean boat was wrong, smuggling weapons and also using violence, if they would have done nothing and peacefully let the israelis take over the boat they would have better proven their point, now its just a case of u asked for it.

It's not smuggling weapons when it's shit you would normally find on a boat. Claiming that any of those things are weapons is just isanity or paranoia.

Have you ever even been on a boat?

You normally find grenades on boats?

[PLAYER57832]

The UN is more concerned about Israel stopping weapon smuggling after the boats refused to be inspected by the Gaza Blockage than they are about Iran having enriched uranium. The anti-Semitism of the world that goes unchallenged is astounding.

In fact, what Israel is doing is directly contrary to Judaic law as well as International law, both of which require humane and reasonable treatment of occupied peoples.

That's presumptive on a number of levels..

Explain, please. I would love to see how you justify this one!

Maybe you should start by justifying your statement..

I am not claiming to be an expert in Jewish law, but this is pretty basic.
Probably the most pertinent are the set of rules referred to as "mipnay darkay shalon" which I am told means "for the sake of peace". The general rule is that activities that might offend non-Jews should, when possible be avoided.
There are several specific examples.
Begin with this "It is more serious breach of the law to steal from or decieve a Gentile than a Jew". Israel has taken many lands held by Palestinian families for hundreds, even a thousand, years. Sometimes it is traditional grazing land that never had a set title, but many times it is orchards and farms, long-established, that have "only" a Turkish title. Israel almost never recognizes those titles. They also fail to prosecute jews who harm or take Palestinian property (though there have been a couple of very recent examples, they are exceptions) and when they do, offer far less sever punishment to the Palestinians who often don't even have to commit real harm. If the relative of a Palestinien is accused (not even proven) of having committed harm against a Jew, then the people can lose thier house and all they own, often with 1/2 hour or less to move the entire household.

Of course, some Orthodox claim that because Israel was given to the Jews, they have a right to the land. This is tricky historically, because many of those who consider themselves Palestinien actually descend from remnants of that Jewish population. It also rather flies in the face of what is recognized as international law. I mean, by that same token we ought to vacate all of the US and return it to the Native American tribes.

But, I am not here to debate Jewish law, and definitely not to claim that the Palestiniens are blame free in all this. My point is that there are many, many reasons to object to Israeli actions that are absolutely not "anti-semitic" as was asserted above by Night Strike and inferred by you. Many Jews, in fact are very much opposed to the actions of Israel on religious grounds. That is my point.

[Snorri1234]

well this is what the israelis are showing...

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... vS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... YjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... uzOWKxN2co

the palestinean boat was wrong, smuggling weapons and also using violence, if they would have done nothing and peacefully let the israelis take over the boat they would have better proven their point, now its just a case of u asked for it.

It's not smuggling weapons when it's shit you would normally find on a boat. Claiming that any of those things are weapons is just isanity or paranoia.

Have you ever even been on a boat?

You normally find grenades on boats?

I didn't see any grenades. I saw flares, metal rods that are in ample supply on any boat, kitchen knifes, hammers and other tools. That's all shit you'd find on any normal boat and to throw them on a heap and say "LOOK weapons!" is just moronic.

The only thing you could really classify as a weapon (slingshots are for kids) is the ceromonial blade lying among the kitchen knifes.

[InkL0sed]

well this is what the israelis are showing...

http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... vS9PXZ3RWM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... YjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevol ... uzOWKxN2co

the palestinean boat was wrong, smuggling weapons and also using violence, if they would have done nothing and peacefully let the israelis take over the boat they would have better proven their point, now its just a case of u asked for it.

It's not smuggling weapons when it's shit you would normally find on a boat. Claiming that any of those things are weapons is just isanity or paranoia.

Have you ever even been on a boat?

You normally find grenades on boats?

I didn't see any grenades. I saw flares, metal rods that are in ample supply on any boat, kitchen knifes, hammers and other tools. That's all shit you'd find on any normal boat and to throw them on a heap and say "LOOK weapons!" is just moronic.

The only thing you could really classify as a weapon (slingshots are for kids) is the ceromonial blade lying among the kitchen knifes.

I'm pretty sure those are grenades at 0:49 in the first video.

[icedagger]

They're smoke bombs I think, but there's a fire bomb at 0:52.

edit: and the israelis are claiming that this stuff was discovered together, not scattered around the ship where a lot of it would indeed be pretty innocuous.

[Snorri1234]

uhr....guys...those are gasmasks.