Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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Phatscotty
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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PLAYER57832 wrote:
bradleybadly wrote:I actually agree somewhat with player. There's no hope for a political solution to this.

I hate war and know this will sound horrible, but in this case I think the only way anything will be decided is for one side to decimate the other in armed conflict. The outcome will have to be completely decisive.
I am afraid you are right. I also think that if Israel does completely obliterate all of Palestine, then we will have another true World War.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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Apparantly the legality of intercepting the ships in neutral waters is more debatable than it seems on the surface:
Mark Regev wrote:The San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times, and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade. That blockade is in place to protect our people.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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Israel is surrounded by enemies who want to dive the Jews into the sea. I say, bring it! God will protect her. So, this is what it's like living in the end of the age? Nice.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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ImageI would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora and find out that that person...
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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jay_a2j wrote:Israel is surrounded by enemies who want to dive the Jews into the sea. I say, bring it! God will protect her. So, this is what it's like living in the end of the age? Nice.
Yes, a lot of people have felt that way throughout time.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (Escalation #1)

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Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert
New Delhi: Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza.

Israel said 10 people died while those on the ship said at least 15 were killed.

A shocked world has responded with outrage. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel and warned of unprecedented and incalculable reprisals.

Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.

Israel has sounded an alert throughout the country fearing rocket attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The Arab League has called an urgent meeting on Tuesday to decide on a common response. Egypt is under pressure to end the blockade of Gaza while Greece has cancelled a military exercise with Israel.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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Should I go watch CNN? This sounds like it could happen. I honestly wonder if Canada would choose a side in this.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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2dimes wrote:Should I go watch CNN? This sounds like it could happen. I honestly wonder if Canada would choose a side in this.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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That seems like a solid answer.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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icedagger wrote:
Snorri wrote: The thing is is that it's still allowed. Technically the Israel soldiers were invading Turkish soil. Foreign soldiers invading your home don't have to attack you before you're allowed to defend.
With what could amount to deadly force? Do you have proof?
It doesn't matter. International law says you have the right to beat foreign soldiers who are boarding you illegally of your boat. This could include deadly force if it's reasonable.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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Snorri1234 wrote:
icedagger wrote:
Snorri wrote: The thing is is that it's still allowed. Technically the Israel soldiers were invading Turkish soil. Foreign soldiers invading your home don't have to attack you before you're allowed to defend.
With what could amount to deadly force? Do you have proof?
It doesn't matter. International law says you have the right to beat foreign soldiers who are boarding you illegally of your boat. This could include deadly force if it's reasonable.
Where does it say that in international law?
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

Post by pimpdave »

I'm pretty sure that in international waters, boats are considered sovereign nations.

It's how we staged the Tyson - Secretariat fight.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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Out there, you can rebroadcast major league baseball with implied oral consent, not expressed written consent.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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thegreekdog wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
icedagger wrote:
Snorri wrote: The thing is is that it's still allowed. Technically the Israel soldiers were invading Turkish soil. Foreign soldiers invading your home don't have to attack you before you're allowed to defend.
With what could amount to deadly force? Do you have proof?
It doesn't matter. International law says you have the right to beat foreign soldiers who are boarding you illegally of your boat. This could include deadly force if it's reasonable.
Where does it say that in international law?
Well not explicitly of course. But if boats are considered to be under the jurisdiction of another nation then they have every right to resist arrest and even use force.

You have the right to defend yourself against foreign police breaching their jurisdiction too. In fact, it would be pretty absurd if you didn't because that would make the whole concept of jurisdiction silly anyway.
"Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill."

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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Here is a link to a short interview with a former U.S. diplomat.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =127361726

I post it because I believe his word is more credible than many, though he was not on the boat where people were killed.

He makes several points, but 2 are particular pertinent to the line of discussion above.


#1. They were in international waters.

#2. The commandoes did have paint guns, but also had AK-47s, etc.

He also talks about why he got involved, but I will let you hear/read that for yourself.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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PLAYER57832 wrote:We were attacked by Japan, but did we turn their whole nation into a prison camp and declare they are just Chinese with funny accents? .
Nope. You put american citizens with Japanese roots in internment camps just like the Canadian goverment did. Funny, didn't even consider doing that to the ethnic german-american poulation......but i guess thats the diff between declaring war on another country and having one declare war on you.


JRock
Last edited by Johnny Rockets on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

Post by thegreekdog »

Snorri1234 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
icedagger wrote:
Snorri wrote: The thing is is that it's still allowed. Technically the Israel soldiers were invading Turkish soil. Foreign soldiers invading your home don't have to attack you before you're allowed to defend.
With what could amount to deadly force? Do you have proof?
It doesn't matter. International law says you have the right to beat foreign soldiers who are boarding you illegally of your boat. This could include deadly force if it's reasonable.
Where does it say that in international law?
Well not explicitly of course. But if boats are considered to be under the jurisdiction of another nation then they have every right to resist arrest and even use force.

You have the right to defend yourself against foreign police breaching their jurisdiction too. In fact, it would be pretty absurd if you didn't because that would make the whole concept of jurisdiction silly anyway.
Yeah, I didn't think of it like that. I'll have to think about this some more.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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Johnny Rockets wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:We were attacked by Japan, but did we turn their whole nation into a prison camp and declare they are just Chinese with funny accents? .
Nope. You put american citizens with Japanese roots in internment camps just like the Canadian goverment did. Funny, didn't even consider doing that to the ethnic german-american poulation......but i guess thats the diff between declaring was on another country and having one declare war on you.
Interning Japanese-Americans from coastal states was a crime, and an action the US has long since repudiated. In some cases, descendents/survivors have even been offered compensation. That, of course does not make up for what was done.
However, as bad as that was, it was done for a short time, during the war. We did not continue for 50 years. Some Palestinien grandparents have never known a time outside of Israeli occupation.

The nuclear attack, right or wrong, was gauged to end the war and stem the loss of ALL lives, on both sides. Israel has no such compunctions. They, in fact, refuse to acknowledge that Palestiniens even exist except as just another group of Arabs.

As for Germans, some German-Americans were imprisoned, though mostly only admitted Nazis sympathizers. Others definitely faced discrimination. However, yes, racism was absolutely a part of this. Racism was also part of why the US and many others simply refused to believe that Germans could be truly exterminating Jews.

However, my reason for the comparison is because Israel claims a "higher authority", often in this. Yet, they don't really follow the rules of that higher authority in their treatment of Palestiniens.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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icedagger wrote:Apparantly the legality of intercepting the ships in neutral waters is more debatable than it seems on the surface:
Mark Regev wrote:The San Remo memorandum states, specifically 67A, that if you have a boat that is charging a blockaded area you are allowed to intercept even prior to it reaching the blockaded area if you've warned them in advance, and that we did a number of times, and they had a stated goal which they openly expressed, of breaking the blockade. That blockade is in place to protect our people.
wiki

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2915343.htm
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Tim: Yes, one involves a lot of physical and psychological pain, and the other one's war.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

Post by jay_a2j »

Watched Netanyahu's speech. Addressing the double standard against Israel. "Israel has the right to defend itself but when it does they are condemned."


Surrounded by hostile nations, Israel is in it's rights to defend herself and take any measures necessary to protect her people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-Semite! Including "Christians" who side with Hammas, Hezbollah, Iran etc.


Long live Israel!!!!!! =D>
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
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Re: Israel's International Crisis

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Johnny Rockets wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:We were attacked by Japan, but did we turn their whole nation into a prison camp and declare they are just Chinese with funny accents? .
Nope. You put american citizens with Japanese roots in internment camps just like the Canadian goverment did. Funny, didn't even consider doing that to the ethnic german-american poulation......but i guess thats the diff between declaring war on another country and having one declare war on you.


JRock
I recall, however, saurkrout was banned in America during WW1. Many Germans were hung just for having German names, as well as German Americans making up for almost 30% of the population at the time.I'm sure the germans got a break from America because of all the support people like FDR and Henry Ford gave hitler pre 1939.


also, the sneakiness of Pearl Harbor counted for something.
Perhaps the American Japanese were simultaneously being protected. That is not a main point, just a small reality.
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

Post by PLAYER57832 »

jay_a2j wrote: Surrounded by hostile nations, Israel is in it's rights to defend herself and take any measures necessary to protect her people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-Semite! Including "Christians" who side with Hammas, Hezbollah, Iran etc.
Well, you can add a number of prominent Jews to that "anti-Semite" list.

Begin here:
http://jfjfp.com (Jews for Justice for Palestine)

http://www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org (Jews Against the Occupation)
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

Post by Phatscotty »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Watched Netanyahu's speech. Addressing the double standard against Israel. "Israel has the right to defend itself but when it does they are condemned."


Surrounded by hostile nations, Israel is in it's rights to defend herself and take any measures necessary to protect her people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-Semite! Including "Christians" who side with Hammas, Hezbollah, Iran etc.


Long live Israel!!!!!! =D>
Well, you can add a number of prominent Jews to that "anti-Semite" list.

Begin here:
http://jfjfp.com (Jews for Justice for Palestine)

http://www.jewsagainsttheoccupation.org (Jews Against the Occupation)
Those two groups should merge and form a new group "Jews for Suicide"
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Re: Israel's International Crisis (escalation #1)

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This Jewish kid has balls of steel!

Jewish kid walks through a group of Muslims in L.A.
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