Government is...

[PLAYER57832]

Back on Topic...

Government is...

... about to take over Big Brother style.

Big brother was a corporation.

[jimboston]

Back on Topic...

Government is...

... about to take over Big Brother style.

Big brother was a corporation.

Huh?

WTF are you talking about?

1) In the book 1984, Big Brother was part of the Gov't... not a corporation.
According to Wiki...
"Big Brother is a fictional character in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the enigmatic dictator of Oceania..."

2) In standard everyday use, people refer to any intrusive person/program as "Big Brother" or "Big Brotherish". According to Wiki...
"the phrase "Big Brother" has entered general usage, to describe any overly-inquisitive or overly-controlling authority figure or attempts by government to increase surveillance."

3) My comment was a joke and reference to another thread started by Saxi.

Even if Big Brother was a coporation... which it wasn't... what would that have to do with anything???

[PLAYER57832]

Back on Topic...

Government is...

... about to take over Big Brother style.

Big brother was a corporation.

Huh?

WTF are you talking about?

1) In the book 1984, Big Brother was part of the Gov't... not a corporation.
According to Wiki...
"Big Brother is a fictional character in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the enigmatic dictator of Oceania..."

It was a corporate head that became the government.

Even if Big Brother was a coporation... which it wasn't... what would that have to do with anything???

[jimboston]

Back on Topic...

Government is...

... about to take over Big Brother style.

Big brother was a corporation.

Huh?

WTF are you talking about?

1) In the book 1984, Big Brother was part of the Gov't... not a corporation.
According to Wiki...
"Big Brother is a fictional character in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the enigmatic dictator of Oceania..."

It was a corporate head that became the government.

Even if Big Brother was a coporation... which it wasn't... what would that have to do with anything???

ummm... so you say it was a corporation (and hence not the Gov't)... then you say it was "a corporate head that became the government".

So um that means what? That I was right?

That's kinda how I read it.

Please describe the difference between....

The Government -and- a Corporate Head who Became the Government

I could say it was a baby who became a man who became a corporate head who became the government. The end result (and what I said) was that Big Brother was the Gov't.

Apology accepted.

[PLAYER57832]

Pretty significant. If the government is controlling a corporation, then you either have true socialism/communism, theoretically serving "the people" (though in practice often a committe dictatorship) or you have a dictatorship/fascist state that takes over corporations, for their own means.

If you have a corporation that takes over he government, then you have a government controlled by the motive of profit.

The two might, just might wind up with the same goals, results. Honestly, to the people within each it likely won't make a lot of difference, but the way each system comes about and even the final result can be very different.

[saxitoxin]

Pretty significant. If the government is controlling a corporation, then you either have true socialism/communism, theoretically serving "the people" (though in practice often a committe dictatorship)

Please don't be so brazen as to explain communism. "True" communism realizes decentralized, worker-oriented control of capital. Socialism is the intentionally highly-centralized transitional stage in which the Dictatorship of the Proletariat - the vanguard of a nation-level Communist Party - prepares the working class for an anarcho-communist reality.

[PLAYER57832]

Pretty significant. If the government is controlling a corporation, then you either have true socialism/communism, theoretically serving "the people" (though in practice often a committe dictatorship)

Please don't be so brazen as to explain communism. "True" communism realizes decentralized, worker-oriented control of capital. Socialism is the intentionally highly-centralized transitional stage in which the Dictatorship of the Proletariat - the vanguard of a nation-level Communist Party - prepares the working class for an anarcho-communist reality.

Yes, I realize that. I was referring to the political structure that is called communism on Earth, not the idealistic economic system. Sorry I did not clarify.

[jimboston]

Player... in the book 1984, Big Brother was the Gov't or the leader of the Gov't.

Period.

[jimboston]

Player... in the book 1984, Big Brother was the Gov't or the leader of the Gov't.

Period.

[King Doctor]

Player... in the book 1984, Big Brother was the Gov't or the leader of the Gov't.

Actually he was a fictional and entirely symbolic figurehead who did not exist at all.


Have you even read 1984?

[PLAYER57832]

Player... in the book 1984, Big Brother was the Gov't or the leader of the Gov't.

Actually he was a fictional and entirely symbolic figurehead who did not exist at all.


Have you even read 1984?

No he has not.

... amd I stamd by what I said, but you are free to disagree jimboston.

[jimboston]

Player... in the book 1984, Big Brother was the Gov't or the leader of the Gov't.

Actually he was a fictional and entirely symbolic figurehead who did not exist at all.


Have you even read 1984?

At least 3 or 4 times... but not recently.

I'm pretty sure 'Big Brother' was the leader/president.
(wiki agrees with me)

I vaguely recall he died or was killed... Not sure.

In any case... I was using the term as it is popularly used in our culture... As a reference to an overpowering overbearing authority figure... Most often the government.

In getting into it with player... We could argue semantics about if 'he' was a figurehead, a computer system, or a person. The bottom line is the Big Brother (in 1984) represents the government. Not a corporation.

[rockfist]

I think he was a fictional figurehead who represented the face of the government. The real leaders of the government were a nameless, faceless committee...kinda like our system of czars...

[Metsfanmax]

No, it was quite manifest in the book that Winston had no idea whether Big Brother was actually a living person or not.

[King Doctor]

See Jim.

Rocky and, uh, 'Mety' both get it. It's a fairly basic part of the text.


Are you sure that you've been holding the book the right way up all those times?

[rockfist]

Government is something that we put in place to protect our freedoms, but all too often it has the opposite result.

[Baron Von PWN]

...nothing more than a corporation that can force you at gunpoint to purchase their services.

discuss

Not true.

How is that not true?

In almost every single way?

At their very basic level they exist for completely different reasons.

Corporations exist only to make maximum profit for its shareholders where as Government is concerned in the public good which does not necessarily entail profit, which you point out frequently in your posts about government spending.

[Baron Von PWN]

This is a logical fallacy, specifically what - and excuse if I butcher the Latin - is called a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter.

OH SHIT LATIN

YOU MUST BE SUPER DUPER SMART

Illegitimi non carborundum

OOh ooh I can play too!

дис из джуст энглиш ин щъирилик

[saxitoxin]

дис из джуст энглиш ин щъирилик

That can probably be cleared with a topical ointment, oral antibiotics shouldn't be necessary; applying some cold ice packs may help with the swelling ... in the future I'd just recommend you measure first - the human body isn't designed to accept objects larger than a certain circumference.

King Doctor, do you concur?

(P.S. - Freiherr, were you doing the liking of my wallpaper of Yuri Alekseyevich in the wallpaper thread?)

[PLAYER57832]

Government is something that we put in place to protect our freedoms, but all too often it has the opposite result.

Government is something people put in place to ensure their interests are protected. Only occasionally are those interests shared by "the people".

That said, government in general and what government can/should be in our country .. differ.

I wrote the above in response to rockfist, but it does seem it would answer you as well.

and, in a sense your point (whether it is the corporation that took over the government or the government that took over all corporations, or, perhaps even just an amorphous computer) is rather mute. It is relevant today because the entity most in control is "the" corporation, except it is not one corporation, it is many that all, operating in unison for profit, wind up working in ways that are detrimental to the rest of us, without any ill intent. It also results in a weakening of our general power.

[Baron Von PWN]

дис из джуст энглиш ин щъирилик

That can probably be cleared with a topical ointment, oral antibiotics shouldn't be necessary; applying some cold ice packs may help with the swelling ... in the future I'd just recommend you measure first - the human body isn't designed to accept objects larger than a certain circumference.

King Doctor, do you concur?

(P.S. - Freiherr, were you doing the liking of my wallpaper of Yuri Alekseyevich in the wallpaper thread?)

ха ха ха ха вэзри фони

I did, it was my wallpaper for a time.

[King Doctor]

Government is something that we put in place to protect our freedoms, but all too often it has the opposite result.

I disagree.

Governments almost always, as in 99.99% of the time, protect the freedoms of the majority of their citizens. Most of the moaning about them comes from highly vocal minorities, who are inevitably making unreasonable demands for special treatment and whose wishes do not correspond with the majority of their fellow countrymen's.

It is seldom that governments do not protect the freedom of society, but it is often that they have to say 'no' to the selfish shouting of dissident minorities.

[jimboston]

See Jim.

Rocky and, uh, 'Mety' both get it. It's a fairly basic part of the text.


Are you sure that you've been holding the book the right way up all those times?

you are splitting a hair that is not splittable... You may or may not be correct, but even if you are, it makes no change to my original post nor to my correction of player.

In the book, the formula of "Big Brother = The Government" is valid.

Go Die.

[jimboston]

and, in a sense your point (whether it is the corporation that took over the government or the government that took over all corporations, or, perhaps even just an amorphous computer) is rather mute. It is relevant today because the entity most in control is "the" corporation, except it is not one corporation, it is many that all, operating in unison for profit, wind up working in ways that are detrimental to the rest of us, without any ill intent. It also results in a weakening of our general power.

My point?

#1-My point had nothing whatsoever to do with corporations.

#2-Corporations do sometimes work in unison, and they sometimes compete. Corporations do have a lot of power, but there is no risk of them "taking over" Gov't today... Though the idea makes for some good fiction.

Please do not take you stupid ideas and try to pawn them of as mine.

I have plenty of my own stupid ideas.

[jimboston]

Government is something that we put in place to protect our freedoms, but all too often it has the opposite result.

I disagree.

Governments almost always, as in 99.99% of the time, protect the freedoms of the majority of their citizens. Most of the moaning about them comes from highly vocal minorities, who are inevitably making unreasonable demands for special treatment and whose wishes do not correspond with the majority of their fellow countrymen's.

It is seldom that governments do not protect the freedom of society, but it is often that they have to say 'no' to the selfish shouting of dissident minorities.

Is this sarcasm? I actually agree with most of this.