CC has Cheated Me

[Mikey-T]

(and dont bother giving a numerical calculation, use common sense!)

[Woodruff]

I am not complaining about losing my eagle, or my hat, or my rank, ....... I am talking about losing my ass on a great strategy on being dice screwed.

But that happens to all of us. Because the dice behave the way they should. That's my point. You've still got a tremendous rank, which clearly shows that your dice quite simply can't be THAT bad.

NO....what it shows is that in most cases my strategy is very good to have such a great rank. So when the dice dont "work out", then my rank goes down!

Ah yes, of course! When you win, it is because your strategy is very good and when you lose, it is because of the dice. Your strategies are so superior that it's just beyond the pale that you could lose for a reason other than the dice and it's beyond the pale that you could possibly win because YOU GOT GOOD DICE. As I said way back early in this thread...get the dice analyzer and use it instead of your general recollection, and you'll amazingly find that the dice you get simply aren't that consistently bad because you WOULD NOT have the rank that you do if they were. It would not be possible.

Woodruff.....thanks for misunderstanding most of what I said.....I am selecting this in particular to show your ignorance. And yes, I am taking a shot at you because you seem to twist what people say. Just as you twisted the analogy I gave.

I didn't twist anything - I simply showed your logical errors to you.

I have currently finished a game where the strategy was to take a bonus and push the opponent under 12 terr. Now, when I have 18 and the opponent has 11, the odds of him taking 2 terr with only 3 deployed are slim, but to have him take 3 terr, then take 4 terr, and me lose 10 guys to a defense of 1 all while not having a cash, then there is no strategy to that. So my strategy went out the window because of the "one-sidedness." Again, what are the odds of that happening? (and dont bother giving a numerical calculation, use common sense!)

Don't bother giving you a numerical calculation, but use common sense? Am I twisting what you said if I point out that the numerical calculation is the largest part of the "common sense" in this game?

I never said my strategy ALWAYS brings victory, but when in EVERY game I am facing choices of killing someone and having to second guess a 20v1v1v1v1, thats when its time to hang it up. When I face that in every freaking game because there are "so many people playing and everything must balance eventually," thats when something needs to happen. I should not be the "dice balancer." That just proves there are threads and I have fallen victim to the "balancing" of the dice.

Your error is that you are only looking at the dice from your personal perspective, thus your statements about being the "dice balancer". This personal-only perspective is what is causing you to fail to understand that the dice are not crappy at all, as I've already explained several times.

Again, CC probably wont care if I stay or go, but I can tell you, my argument is strong if you actually read it.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on that - your argument holds no water at all, in my opinion.

Dont argue the pettyness of each statement as you seem fit.

I respond to what is said. If you make a statement that is not accurate, I will point it out. You have made a number of those, so I have had a number of responses. I try to break them apart within the post so that it becomes more clear exactly where your error lies. Unfortunately, you've decided that you're right and so you don't bother trying to comprehend what everyone else is telling you. Much like the die-rolls are viewed only from your personal perspective, so are the arguments in your world...and you won't learn anything that way.

I dont come here to argue every little dice roll I dont get. I have been a member for nearly 4 years, so I know what to expect out of the dice when they arent "fair" and I have had my fair share of poor dice too. I think that speaks for my experience. But that is no reason to accept the question of attacking 20v1v1v1v1 and not winning because though the odds of it actually happening exist, they just dont happen.

But that is absolutely wrong. I don't know how else to say it...that's quite simply not true. Please make sure you don't ever go to a casino, because they love people like you.

[rdsrds2120]

Woodruff, jackal, play nice.

jackal, there is no 'abuse' or 'cheating' because you had bad dice. You have a hat, and you're still here - which is great! But let me quote the Community Guidelines that some have seemed to have forgotten:

Be nice or leave

It's fine if you don't like this site or the way it is run...find another one with better rules, start another one and make your own rules, abuse another one and try to get them to change their rules, but don't complain about the rules here.

I know you're not addressing the rules - but you are addressing the way the dice are chosen, I do believe. Please know that many tests have been done, all pointing to randomness. Yes, you have had a roll that would make me go 'Damn, that's bad!', and this was rightly moved here by Evil Semp. Please try to keep dice complaints to a more...nonsuper angry note, as they happen to everyone. G'day!

-rd

[Master Fenrir]

I just miss the days where I could win a team game based on strategy and slightly favorable dice. If it's an even match up and my team wins because the dice were something like 55-45, I could still be proud of that win. Lately it seems like every game, dice go 70-30, and the wins feel hollow and the losses just make me bitter.

[jackal31]

woodruff - I apologize for digging into you like that.

rd - I know CC professes how the dice are randomized and tests are run to maintain the stability and integrity of the website. I dont believe the dice are as completely random as they think. I can only complain, and either put up with it or leave. I am going to make a reccommendation though, but I think I would like to do it behind "closed doors." I openly vented about my frustrations here and turned into one of "those" players. I dont like that either. So, if I wanted to express some questions, who would I direct those toward?

MF - i couldnt agree with you more, and that is what I want to address in the conversation (see above). It does take the wind out of my sails to get whipped by anyone who has the 70% advantage, and when I am on the high side of odds, it too just doesnt feel like I earned it. These games just seem like they are predetermined anymore.

Overall, sorry for the explosion. I would like to think that something can be done about the "thread theory" though.

[Robinette]

When we first met, life was ohhh sooo wonderful...


We played together every day, and we really enjoyed each other's company...
and no matter what, you were always close by,


and up the scoreboard i did go, for several years.. with you, right by my side...


but then... something happened... you just weren't the same...


and then my points started going down... i still don't know why you did this to me...


but then i discovered that you cheated on me,
never mind that i had ignored you for so long...
but now you were giving good dice to another...



Moral of the story...

Recognize what you have done wrong,
then tell the dice you are sorry,,,
if you are sincere, she may come back to you... in time...

[Commander9]

I won't start to complain about how some people are unlucky with the dice, but I can definitely say that after the change, the dice started to act not exactly as they're supposed to (In my humble opinion anyways). The dice now can go much more extreme and you will very rarely find your "average" dice. Instead, dice go to extremities - now I don't take for a granted a 14 v 2 or 8 v 1 as win as it's a quite often loss, but also you sometimes just get insanely good dice.

In reality, from what I've seen (and know about the mathematical odds), the dice usually don't go to extremities all that often, but it seems like that's not the case anymore. Right now, it seems like the best way to still win some points once in a while is to either play team games with a good bunch of player, or play fs/big esc/farming games. If you don't play those games all that often, it's quite hard to move up. Anyways, just my 2 cents.

[tdans]

I won't start to complain about how some people are unlucky with the dice, but I can definitely say that after the change, the dice started to act not exactly as they're supposed to (In my humble opinion anyways). The dice now can go much more extreme and you will very rarely find your "average" dice. Instead, dice go to extremities - now I don't take for a granted a 14 v 2 or 8 v 1 as win as it's a quite often loss, but also you sometimes just get insanely good dice.

In reality, from what I've seen (and know about the mathematical odds), the dice usually don't go to extremities all that often, but it seems like that's not the case anymore. Right now, it seems like the best way to still win some points once in a while is to either play team games with a good bunch of player, or play fs/big esc/farming games. If you don't play those games all that often, it's quite hard to move up. Anyways, just my 2 cents.

we dont want your 2 cents give us a dollars worth and mabye we will listen.. OK, here is my 10 bucks worth... After the change, THese dice started sucking.. I used to have amazing dice, now my dice suck.. Curse You CC random Loony NUtcracks

[trinicardinal]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

[tdans]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

say's the gray man........ you an only change strategy so much man..

[InsomniaRed]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

Oh geez don't go and compare our lovely intensity cube system to the lottery...that's just ridiculous. Plus as long as you're playing a game that requires skill and not dice, then you should be fine. Do I complain when I get bad dice on Doodle Earth and end up losing? Of course I do, but I know it was a 50/50 shot and I took that chance because that map doesn't need skill to be won (plus it was the only speed game up, and I am too lazy to make my own)

[trinicardinal]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

say's the gray man........ you an only change strategy so much man..

True. But don't leave you strategy the same (which is what the OP seems to have done) and blame the dice for everything (oh wait that's easier nvm)

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

Oh geez don't go and compare our lovely intensity cube system to the lottery...that's just ridiculous. Plus as long as you're playing a game that requires skill and not dice, then you should be fine. Do I complain when I get bad dice on Doodle Earth and end up losing? Of course I do, but I know it was a 50/50 shot and I took that chance because that map doesn't need skill to be won (plus it was the only speed game up, and I am too lazy to make my own)

yep... but considering the thread I think someone missed that point somewhere. Strategy works to a point but it does not work 100% of the time... even the OP admits that... yet he still seems to think that it should not fail. Thus CC is cheating with the dice... just trying to pass along the idea of statistical possibility to him...lol

People really need to give these dice threads a rest

[b00060]

Agreed!

[ljex]

I won't start to complain about how some people are unlucky with the dice, but I can definitely say that after the change, the dice started to act not exactly as they're supposed to (In my humble opinion anyways). The dice now can go much more extreme and you will very rarely find your "average" dice. Instead, dice go to extremities - now I don't take for a granted a 14 v 2 or 8 v 1 as win as it's a quite often loss, but also you sometimes just get insanely good dice.

In reality, from what I've seen (and know about the mathematical odds), the dice usually don't go to extremities all that often, but it seems like that's not the case anymore. Right now, it seems like the best way to still win some points once in a while is to either play team games with a good bunch of player, or play fs/big esc/farming games. If you don't play those games all that often, it's quite hard to move up. Anyways, just my 2 cents.

wait so to increase score you have to play games that have more skill (opponents have lower skill)? Who would have ever guessed that...

[Master Fenrir]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

say's the gray man........ you an only change strategy so much man..

True. But don't leave you strategy the same (which is what the OP seems to have done) and blame the dice for everything (oh wait that's easier nvm)

There is no way to change the strategy in no spoil team games. It's not like esc where you're dropping a cash and it occurs to you, "Hmm, 8 vs. 2 fails 80% of the time now. I had better make that a 10." You have very few troops to use, so there is no adjustment that can be made besides the "stack an extra round or two strategy," which I have tried and I assume Jackal has tried, and more often than not, the enemy goes 6 vs. 9 to trim your stack, and conquers advancing a 4 or something ridiculous. You should probably ask Jackal how he's tried to compensate for the seeming dice shift before making foolish assumptions. (oh wait that's easier nvm)

[trinicardinal]

what are the odds of winning the lottery? Yet on a regular basis someone who has faced those same odd wins... Ppl seem to forget that just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen... I get horrible dice runs... I change strategy to suit. Think about it....

say's the gray man........ you an only change strategy so much man..

True. But don't leave you strategy the same (which is what the OP seems to have done) and blame the dice for everything (oh wait that's easier nvm)

There is no way to change the strategy in no spoil team games. It's not like esc where you're dropping a cash and it occurs to you, "Hmm, 8 vs. 2 fails 80% of the time now. I had better make that a 10." You have very few troops to use, so there is no adjustment that can be made besides the "stack an extra round or two strategy," which I have tried and I assume Jackal has tried, and more often than not, the enemy goes 6 vs. 9 to trim your stack, and conquers advancing a 4 or something ridiculous. You should probably ask Jackal how he's tried to compensate for the seeming dice shift before making foolish assumptions. (oh wait that's easier nvm)

lol.. ok so maybe I could have stated it better... apologies. But the basis of the OP post of being victimized is imo paranoid. Streaks occur. We all suffer through them. He's obviously a player who likes that map and has worked out a strategy for it... but....The best player and strategy can fall to a bad run of the dice... it happens... it has affected a lot of us. To claim that CC has cheated you and is victimizing you and your team mates falls short of what I would expect of someone at that level. If he wants to leave because of that it is his perogative... as is that of all of us who play here. I repeat the main point which most people seem to have missed

just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen.

[MNDuke]

Have you tried auto-assaulting? Apparently that's supposed to fix everything. I was told to do that when I took up this cause. So frustrating.

[Leehar]

just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen.

Agreed, however, I think what everyone is saying is that those occurrences seem to be occurring more often.
Obviously we can say that the dice even out over time, but you also tend to notice an 8v2 loss or a 4v12 win in the earlier stages of the game when those rolls have a large say in the progress on the game, and the significance decreases at the end of the game where you're just clearing up.
Obviously a lot of this is just opinion, but I feel that sometimes even the defensive dice are better than should be expected when you have 20/30 stacks only taking 3 or 4 territories of 1/2/3 troops both for yourself and the opponent, and it seems even with 20v15 odds it's rare to be able to guarantee victory. I think this just comes back to what everyone says that they can no longer be comfortable with 8v2's 14v1's etc. They should occur very rarely, but they seem to be occurring often enough as to be noticeable by most, which is a concern, whether it is based on factual evidence or not.

[AndyDufresne]

Jackal31, I hear you.

I hear you. I'm reminded of an article I read not too long ago:

How Randomness Rules Our World

...every once in a great while, “when pure luck occasionally leads to a lopsided preponderance of hits from some particular direction ... a noticeable jiggle occurs.” We notice the improbable directional jiggle but ignore the zillions of meaningless and counteracting collisions.

In the Middle Land of our ancient evolutionary environment, which I introduced in Part 1 of this column last month, our brains never evolved a probability network, and thus our folk intuitions are ill equipped to deal with many aspects of the modern world. Although our intuitions can be useful in dealing with other people and social relationships (which evolved as common and important for a social primate species such as ours when we were struggling to survive in the harsh environs of the Paleolithic), they are misleading when it comes to such probabilistic problems as gambling...

...Extraordinary events do not always require extraordinary causes. Given enough time, they can happen by chance. Knowing this, Mlodinow says, “we can improve our skill at decision making and tame some of the biases that lead us to make poor judgments and poor choices ... and we can learn to judge decisions by the spectrum of potential outcomes they might have produced rather than by the particular result that actually occurred.” Embrace the random. Find the pattern. Know the difference.

--Andy

[Commander9]

wait so to increase score you have to play games that have more skill (opponents have lower skill)? Who would have ever guessed that...

Huh?

[nikola_milicki]

just because it is extremely unlikely for something to happen doesn't mean that it cannot happen.

Agreed, however, I think what everyone is saying is that those occurrences seem to be occurring more often.
Obviously we can say that the dice even out over time, but you also tend to notice an 8v2 loss or a 4v12 win in the earlier stages of the game when those rolls have a large say in the progress on the game, and the significance decreases at the end of the game where you're just clearing up.
Obviously a lot of this is just opinion, but I feel that sometimes even the defensive dice are better than should be expected when you have 20/30 stacks only taking 3 or 4 territories of 1/2/3 troops both for yourself and the opponent, and it seems even with 20v15 odds it's rare to be able to guarantee victory. I think this just comes back to what everyone says that they can no longer be comfortable with 8v2's 14v1's etc. They should occur very rarely, but they seem to be occurring often enough as to be noticeable by most, which is a concern, whether it is based on factual evidence or not.

I actually lost 14vs1 once, must be like two years go but I still remember the map and land I attacked

oh and a few minutes ago my 10vs1 lost 5 against 6,6,6,5,6 dice b4 I won the attack, this is the problem with these dice, attacks like this happen waaaay to often here, cuz nobody or nothing ever rolls so many 6s like CC dice do

[Darwins_Bane]

The dice aren't all that whacky:P I do find they're more random. For instance, I have lost more battles, but they were usually pretty close. I find that there is an advantage to attacking, and I have also noticed that the smaller vs larger stack scenario is sometimes very lucky. There's good and bad dice. It all evens out in the end.

[tdans]

i cheated in a game once, i got lack drunk, and he gave me the codes to get amazing dice

[Darwins_Bane]

Welcome to the world of Mod dice, my friend.

[tdans]

Welcome to the world of Mod dice, my friend.

yea, well, mods suck, lack told me so himself...