Medieval Oligarchy - end of my mapping

[isaiah40]

guys, sorry for totaly stupid question, but I can not find where I can create design brief. so where?

Here!

[MarshalNey]

Well, I don't want to get ahead of anything here but as far as the gameplay goes, like I said before I think that it will revolve around a discussion of starting positions.

I'm not sure but I think you mentioned starting every player off with 2 County Towns and 1 Oligarch Castle. I don't think starting positions work like that, unless I missed an update they are all distributed randomly and you can't assign them by type.

If this is the case then you'll have to just make the Oligarch Castles as starting positions and make the County Towns neutral (maybe neutral 2?). The land outside of the Oligarch Castles can be neutral (again maybe neutral 2) and the Royal Castles and their lands should all probably be neutral as well, although you could make the lands neutral 1 to make it more attractive...

That would leave the rest of the land for open deployment. However, that would give a total of 38 territories (8 of them starting positions) which isn't an ideal number for open deployment.

There is an alternative scheme where all of the non-starting Oligarch Castles and County Towns are open deployment, and all the lands and Royal Castles are all neutral. This would give only 30 territories at the drop (8 of them starting positions) which would be fine for open deployment. Oddly enough, it would also be balanced as each starting territory would give an autodeploy of 1, and yet they would be blocked off from each other by neutrals and so prevent any gratuitous smash-and-grab at the start.

Regardless of the deployment scheme used, I did notice two starting position Oligarch Castles that seemed to have an unfair advantage/disadantage. Kun seems to have a distinct advantage since he shares no nearby lands with any other starting position Oligarchs, plus he's the nearest to the Royal Castles. Vasa, on the other hand, has a disadvantage because he's squeezed in between two other Oligarch Castles, while all of the other starting Oligarchs share only one of their County Towns with another Oligarch (the exception to this is Aba, who like Kun is by himself, but he is far away from the Royal Lands... so not as bad of an advantage).

With that in mind, I'd recommend switching Kun to Pok as a starting Oligarch, and Varasa to J.Koszegi like so:

Varasa -> J. Koszegi
Kan -> Pok

As for the bonus structure, I think it's fine, although I still think the +2 for the Oligarch bonus + adjacent County Town bonus could be stated in fewer words.

What problems did Helix mention about the bonus structure TB?


Marshal Ney

[theBastard]

Well, I don't want to get ahead of anything here but as far as the gameplay goes, like I said before I think that it will revolve around a discussion of starting positions.

100% agree. the set up of starting positions is the main problem.

I'm not sure but I think you mentioned starting every player off with 2 County Towns and 1 Oligarch Castle. I don't think starting positions work like that, unless I missed an update they are all distributed randomly and you can't assign them by type.

If this is the case then you'll have to just make the Oligarch Castles as starting positions and make the County Towns neutral (maybe neutral 2?). The land outside of the Oligarch Castles can be neutral (again maybe neutral 2) and the Royal Castles and their lands should all probably be neutral as well, although you could make the lands neutral 1 to make it more attractive...

That would leave the rest of the land for open deployment. However, that would give a total of 38 territories (8 of them starting positions) which isn't an ideal number for open deployment.

Royal Castles and their lands must start neutral, I think. at the first - historic accuracy, at the second - there are 5 Royal Castles and 5 lands so it is impossible to distribute them between 8 players fairly. Royal Castles as targets of victory conditions should start 5 neutral, what do you think?

I can not do this map as conquest map (I hate them), what about to do starting positions as: 8 main Oligarchs Castles, 16 County Towns, 16 County Towns lands = 40 together. 5 for each player in 8 players game?

than lesser Oligarch Castles start as neutral, also their lands and the lands of main Oligarchs Castles also start as neutral.

There is an alternative scheme where all of the non-starting Oligarch Castles and County Towns are open deployment, and all the lands and Royal Castles are all neutral. This would give only 30 territories at the drop (8 of them starting positions) which would be fine for open deployment. Oddly enough, it would also be balanced as each starting territory would give an autodeploy of 1, and yet they would be blocked off from each other by neutrals and so prevent any gratuitous smash-and-grab at the start.

if we do lesser Oligarch Castles (non-starting) as open deployement there should be disadvantage for some players, because there are only 6 ot these Castles and player with 2 Oligarch Castles (one as main Oligarch Castle, one as lesser Oligarch Castle) could gain Oligarch bonus more quickly as player who will start only with one main Oligarch Castle...

Regardless of the deployment scheme used, I did notice two starting position Oligarch Castles that seemed to have an unfair advantage/disadantage. Kun seems to have a distinct advantage since he shares no nearby lands with any other starting position Oligarchs, plus he's the nearest to the Royal Castles. Vasa, on the other hand, has a disadvantage because he's squeezed in between two other Oligarch Castles, while all of the other starting Oligarchs share only one of their County Towns with another Oligarch (the exception to this is Aba, who like Kun is by himself, but he is far away from the Royal Lands... so not as bad of an advantage).

I see now. then maybe better will be to change "Varasd" to "Dragutin"...

now I see another problem - the lesser Oligarch Castle "Frangepan" has border only with one County Town land, so he can not gain Adjacent County Town bonus...

With that in mind, I'd recommend switching Kun to Pok as a starting Oligarch, and Varasa to J.Koszegi like so:

Varasa -> J. Koszegi
Kan -> Pok

if we change "Kan" to "Pok" (becasue Kan´s advantage position), then when change "Varasd" to "J.Koszegi", "J.Koszegi" will has the same advantage as "Kan". he has direct border with "Fejer" (Royal land).
maybe I could add mountains between "Kan" and "Temes" (Royal land)? and maybe delete then mountains between "Feher" and "Csanad"?

As for the bonus structure, I think it's fine, although I still think the +2 for the Oligarch bonus + adjacent County Town bonus could be stated in fewer words.

sorry, but all legend is on you. you have free hand

What problems did Helix mention about the bonus structure TB?

The rules are a little complex as well... all these pluses and minuses make it hard to figure out the gameplay.

Marshal Ney[/quote]

thanks you for advices and help. after yours notices I see some problems better now (whos eyes are worst ). I will wait for your next input, but I´m afraid the map will need any edits. especialy "Kan" and his border with Roayl land "Temes". and missed County Town for Oligarch Castle "Frangepan"...

ones more thanks

EDIT: also "M.Koszegi" has border with 3 County Towns. maybe delete bridge from "Gyor"?

[natty dread]

I'm not sure but I think you mentioned starting every player off with 2 County Towns and 1 Oligarch Castle. I don't think starting positions work like that, unless I missed an update they are all distributed randomly and you can't assign them by type.

Sure you can. You can assign several territories into each starting position. Just code each starting position with 2 towns + 1 castle.

[theBastard]

I'm not sure but I think you mentioned starting every player off with 2 County Towns and 1 Oligarch Castle. I don't think starting positions work like that, unless I missed an update they are all distributed randomly and you can't assign them by type.

Sure you can. You can assign several territories into each starting position. Just code each starting position with 2 towns + 1 castle.

this is great. thanks natty I think this solve much troubles...

[theBastard]

I mentioned this upper:
1, the map needs to cut off Macsoi (County Town with region) and replace it with one bordering with Frangepan and Subics (both Oligarch Castles).
2, the Brasso (County Town and its region Sepsiszek) is too alone there.
3, M. Koszegi (Oligarch Castle) has acess to the three County Towns (and their regions).

these are the main.

[thenobodies80]

Graphically speaking the map is a mess, to much text mixed with background images.
Also the colors don't help to distiguish bonuses.

I would like to look at how the map works and maybe give you some gameplay suggestion, but all that yellow really discourages me
Do you have a version with zero or minimal graphics?

[theBastard]

did you saw this version? I did not updated first post...

Click image to enlarge.

[Nola_Lifer]

I liked your map when it was white. The bottom of the first looks the best. Look at how Kab did Napoleonic Europe. There is some color with white maybe that can help but you have so much going on. I do like the border you have on your post above. I think you can make it work if you toned out the yellow and got rid of a lot of your text. Simpler is always better.

[theBastard]

I liked your map when it was white. The bottom of the first looks the best. Look at how Kab did Napoleonic Europe. There is some color with white maybe that can help but you have so much going on.

I work one new version. with some changes, because gameplay. and without yellow colour

I do like the border you have on your post above. I think you can make it work if you toned out the yellow and got rid of a lot of your text. Simpler is always better.

thanks. border will be there.

thanks for notices

[theBastard]

if any cartographer will have interest to continue on this map, PM me please. I have realy troubles with my knucklebone of the thumb...

[MrBenn]

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.