brandoncfi[CLEARED]ES

[murphy16]

Accused:

brandoncfi

The accused are suspected of:

Throwing a tournament game



Game number(s):

Game 8439261




Comments:
This happened after 23 rounds into the game
I have 4 cards with a set worth 115 troops
He suicides me giving the game to blue so that he (green) can win the tournament.
I had the chance at winning the game and causing the tournament to go into a tie breaker between him and I.
This is very unfair to throw a game so that it doesn't go to the tie breaker.

The following attacks are all on my stacks that would have kept me alive to cash.
2011-02-19 11:59:21 - Incrementing game to round 23
2011-02-19 13:01:56 - brandoncfi received 3 troops for holding Western Europe
2011-02-19 13:01:56 - brandoncfi received 14 troops for 44 regions
2011-02-19 13:02:04 - brandoncfi cashed in a group of Peru, Baltics, and Norway worth 110 troops
2011-02-19 13:02:04 - brandoncfi got bonus of 2 troops added to Peru
2011-02-19 13:02:04 - brandoncfi got bonus of 2 troops added to Baltics
2011-02-19 13:02:52 - brandoncfi deployed 74 troops on Iraq
2011-02-19 13:03:31 - brandoncfi deployed 19 troops on Pakistan
2011-02-19 13:04:07 - brandoncfi deployed 16 troops on Irkutsk
2011-02-19 13:04:35 - brandoncfi deployed 18 troops on Guatemala
2011-02-19 13:04:39 - brandoncfi assaulted Mexico from Guatemala and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:04:55 - brandoncfi assaulted Southern USA from Mexico and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:05:01 - brandoncfi assaulted Western USA from Southern USA and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:05:10 - brandoncfi assaulted B.C. from Western USA and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:05:22 - brandoncfi assaulted Prairies from B.C. and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:05:51 - brandoncfi assaulted Iran from Iraq and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:06:09 - brandoncfi assaulted Turkey from Iraq and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:06:25 - brandoncfi assaulted Levant from Iraq and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:06:32 - brandoncfi assaulted Egypt from Levant and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:07:16 - brandoncfi assaulted India from Pakistan and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:07:28 - brandoncfi assaulted Sri Lanka from India and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:07:50 - brandoncfi assaulted Nepal from India and conquered it from murphy16
2011-02-19 13:08:41 - brandoncfi ended the turn and got spoils

This here is what was said in the game chat to show that the accused threw the game.

2011-02-19 13:09:22 - brandoncfi: Win win blue you win the game I win the tourney

[murphy16]

Might I add that red and I had both won 1 of the 5 games and green had won 2, needing 3 wins in total to win the tournament. So by him throwing the game to blue, that eliminated the chance of a tie breaker game. Very unfair and a poor way to win a tournament. I have notified the tournament organizer and I hope he take action on this as well.

[chemefreak]

Brilliant! I'm sure this has happened before in a tournament. I wonder what the ruling is going to be?

Although, if blue cashes and finishes off yellow he doesn't have a mid-turn cash. If green has a 3 card wonder he could make it very interesting. Not sure whether he has actually "thrown" the game. Although, no matter what, looks like he is getting a trophy

[greenoaks]

acting like a cheer squad in chat would discourage attacks against him, increasing his chance of winning the tourney

subtle diplomacy - this seems reasonable behaviour to me

[Woodruff]

Comments:
This happened after 23 rounds into the game
I have 4 cards with a set worth 115 troops
He suicides me giving the game to blue so that he (green) can win the tournament.
I had the chance at winning the game and causing the tournament to go into a tie breaker between him and I.
This is very unfair to throw a game so that it doesn't go to the tie breaker.

As a tournament organizer (not viewing this from the perspective of ConquerClub, which may differ from mine), I see no problem with this. The idea is to win the tournament.

This is precisely why in my Track Meet Tournament, I have arranged the "events" so that those events that are the least likely to be impacted by this sort of thing will take place last. But the whole idea behind a tournament is the effort to win it, as opposed to individual games within the tournament.

[eddie2]

ok there are 2 things that have to be taken into account in this.


intentional throwing of the game

did he do this yes he did you cant argue with this. but this was not a regular game.

tourneys
since this was a tourney it is based on a series of games and since you were his closest rival it is only the correct way to go. he more than likely seen he was not going to win this game but seen a way to win the tourney which meant taking you out of the running. This move goes against site rules but not tourney rules unless the tourney organiser clearly stated this type of play was not allowed.

there was a case similar to this a couple of weeks back

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5&start=30

now once again all i can say is learn how to play these tourneys its not about winning individual games. its how you play in the series of games. and this guy has shown you how to play it.

[jpcloet]

It does appear to be throwing the game, it will likely be noted. Really it is up to the TO to do the right thing.

[benga]

It does appear to be throwing the game, it will likely be noted. Really it is up to the TO to do the right thing.

What right thing?

This is done in every tournament, when you need to kill off competition to win.

[QoH]

I don't know what to do... I'm running the tournament, and have never come into a situation like this...

[eddie2]

dont do anything if you do it will literally make all tourneys where you have a points for places bad. this tactic is used in all these types of tourneys. if it was a player that could not win the tourney then yes you could agree but if that move wins it it was well played.

i think tourney directors needs to rule on this.

[QoH]

dont do anything if you do it will literally make all tourneys where you have a points for places bad. this tactic is used in all these types of tourneys

Ok, if its a valid tactic in tournies, I wont do anything about it

[iamkoolerthanu]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that in a tournament, the entire object of the all the games is to win the TOURNY not the particular game... so killing someone and losing the game for yourself is acceptable only if it helps you to win the tourny, which in this case, it did

[dr.lucas]

I have seen this tactic applied to tournament games, many of them, and it seems to be an acceptable strategy. If this is a rules violation then every tournament game where the objective isn't to win will need to be looked at.

[Darin44]

dont do anything if you do it will literally make all tourneys where you have a points for places bad. this tactic is used in all these types of tourneys

Ok, if its a valid tactic in tournies, I wont do anything about it

I wouldn't do anything either

[jpcloet]

If this is common practice (throwing a game - which is against site rules) in tournaments, then the TD's need to do something about it. The player in question was not at risk of losing the tournament, only having it possibly come down to a tie break. B already had 2 wins. Brambles and Magiiic were out regardless. Murph had to win to force a tie-breaker of some sort. We won't know if Murph could have won because B cheated.

For pulling a stunt like that I would disqualify B from the finals and deem that game void. That would leave Murph, Brambles with one win each. Have them face off to determine the winner. Or if you don't deem that game void, then have the winners (1 each) murph, brambles and Magiiiic face off in a 3 way to determine the winner.

[Bones2484]

Play to win the tournament, not the game.

Let me qualify this statement:
- Suiciding to prevent someone else from winning when it doesn't affect you? Should be punishable.
- Suiciding to help someone else win when it doesn't affect you? Should be punishable.

However, suiciding to help you win the tournament? No problems here.

In saying, this... just let it be known that this is a viable strategy in so few tournaments that it really should not be a big deal at all. If you sign up for a tournament like this, you should know it may come down to such play.

[murphy16]

Play to win the tournament, not the game.

Let me qualify this statement:
- Suiciding to prevent someone else from winning when it doesn't affect you? Should be punishable.
- Suiciding to help someone else win when it doesn't affect you? Should be punishable.

However, suiciding to help you win the tournament? No problems here.

A lot of problems here, throwing a game is throwing a game, tournament or not it's against the rules.

And to do it to not let the game go to a tie breaker is chicken shit.

[jpcloet]

However, suiciding to help you win the tournament? No problems here.

Suiciding is against site rules, so you are ok if someone does this several times, even though they would risk a full site ban?

[jpcloet]

And to do it to not let the game go to a tie breaker is chicken shit.

Let's be fair here, we don't know that you would have won. You had a chance at a tie-break at best.

[QoH]

I don't know what to do here.

If people play to win the tournament by breaking the rules, I guess I would have to kick brandoncfi out...

Such a weird situation

[eddie2]

you play a tournement to win it. bandoncfi played to win. this should not be punishible

[Hath]

As an avid tournament player (approximately 92% of my games played are tournaments) this situation has arisen before, on multiple occasions, both in my favor (I executed the strategy, though probably not so blatantly) and against me (the tournament leader executed the strategy against me).

My opinion: This is a totally viable, acceptable strategy for winning the tournament. When you play tournaments, the goal is to WIN THE TOURNAMENT, regardless of what that means for the individual game.

Solution: Tournament games fall under a different set of rules/standard of play than normal games. Throwing a game with the intention of winning the tournament (such as is the case here) absolutely MUST be an acceptable strategy (throwing a game in round 1 of a tournament before anyone has any points is obviously against the rules). If you don't want that strategy to be acceptable in your tournament, say so from the start of the tournament, or implement a points/victory system that will avoid such situations arising.

[Bones2484]

If you don't want that strategy to be acceptable in your tournament, say so from the start of the tournament, or implement a points/victory system that will avoid such situations arising.

Great point, here. I've seen this system added into many tournaments lately and it cuts down on any such behavior very well.

[eddie2]

lol ok look at it another way. if he did not make that move would others put a c and a for him throwing the tourney because he had a chance to win and didnt take it.

ow and ps has this been given the proper running order.

1)contact tourney organiser
2)contact tourney mods.

[banana_hammocks]

Previous Discussion:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 29&t=88046

I would have to say that this would eliminate a whole bunch of league style tournaments. As well as Tournaments where the aim is not to be the first to be killed. Let alone other innovative tournaments e.g. Friends Close, Enemies Closer (where I had to get special exemption).

This would severely limit the options for tournament makers.

From my point of view each round of a tournament is similar to a game. If you were in a 4 player game and one player was winning, it is likely that the other 3 would gang up on him as that would be their best way of winning. Equally in a League where 1 player is ahead in the league the others would try to stop them winning (and hence increase the chances of them winning) by killing the leading player in the tournament.

At worst I think that a disclaimer should be put in the tournament posts.

I've had a look at my tournament wins and I believe 8 out of 19 of the tournaments would have broken a rule, the other tournaments were 1v1, 3v3's or 4v4's with the exception of one tournament which was winner advances.