Nostalgia Mafia ~ Commander wins!

[Commander9]

The case on cena is good, but I still believe that Fir is more suspicious than cena.

Also fir was not on Naggy's wagon, which I think is telling.

And I do believe someone wanted to Doc to come out and say who he protected last night. I was saying it would probably be best for the doctor to say nothing.

Statements like this really do work better with some support. I've said that we were at impasse and that it's probably not a good idea and Edoc before me said the same thing. If I'm not mistaken, you're just restating what has been said, which is kind of odd in my eyes.

As far as Fir goes - yes, I he should not be given a free pass either... I'd really love to hear from him and Cena.

[Fircoal]

If i have to take the heat for hammering, so be it.

Seriously, someone had to do it.

If not, we'd still be on Day 1, arguing in circles.

Going to continue on with my hunch from yesterday.

Vote Fir

What I don't think about this post is Vio ignores the fact that we still had some time to debate with ourselves. The deadline wasn't right happening yet, we still had some time to debate and talk. I feel that your argument is kinda weak and textbook. And if your hunch really nothing more than a hunch.

Also I know I'm not one to talk, but where is Cena?

[Streaker]

If i have to take the heat for hammering, so be it.

Seriously, someone had to do it.

If not, we'd still be on Day 1, arguing in circles.

Going to continue on with my hunch from yesterday.

Vote Fir

What I don't think about this post is Vio ignores the fact that we still had some time to debate with ourselves. The deadline wasn't right happening yet, we still had some time to debate and talk. I feel that your argument is kinda weak and textbook. And if your hunch really nothing more than a hunch.

Also I know I'm not one to talk, but where is Cena?

There wasn't THAT much time left, when Vio hammered. In order to debate and talk, the players that you want to talk to have to be around. Vio hammered, I found it suspicious just as anyone else, but someone had to do it indeed.

If cena doesn't show up soon, I can add scummarining to the case...

[edocsil]

If i have to take the heat for hammering, so be it.

Seriously, someone had to do it.

If not, we'd still be on Day 1, arguing in circles.

Going to continue on with my hunch from yesterday.

Vote Fir

What I don't think about this post is Vio ignores the fact that we still had some time to debate with ourselves. The deadline wasn't right happening yet, we still had some time to debate and talk. I feel that your argument is kinda weak and textbook. And if your hunch really nothing more than a hunch.

Also I know I'm not one to talk, but where is Cena?

There was still 24+ hours if I recall correctly. It was a dumb idea.
There wasn't THAT much time left, when Vio hammered. In order to debate and talk, the players that you want to talk to have to be around. Vio hammered, I found it suspicious just as anyone else, but someone had to do it indeed.

If cena doesn't show up soon, I can add scummarining to the case...

[VioIet]

There was less than 24 hours. Deadline was about 12 hours away at that point. I believe i posted Saturday morning, and deadline was Saturday evening. Seems interesting that edoc preferred a no lynch.

Also if you were really so worried about someone like me coming to hammer nag, then why did you guys have three votes on him in the first place? You don't put someone at L-1. if you don't want them to be lynched, because you know someone can always come and hammer.

This seems like a convenient argument to be made by those who were on nag's wagon, but can say "oh but we didn't hammer him, we just voted him." The votes have to accumulate somehow.

[edocsil]

If i have to take the heat for hammering, so be it.

Seriously, someone had to do it.

If not, we'd still be on Day 1, arguing in circles.

Going to continue on with my hunch from yesterday.

Vote Fir

What I don't think about this post is Vio ignores the fact that we still had some time to debate with ourselves. The deadline wasn't right happening yet, we still had some time to debate and talk. I feel that your argument is kinda weak and textbook. And if your hunch really nothing more than a hunch.

Also I know I'm not one to talk, but where is Cena?

There wasn't THAT much time left, when Vio hammered. In order to debate and talk, the players that you want to talk to have to be around. Vio hammered, I found it suspicious just as anyone else, but someone had to do it indeed.

If cena doesn't show up soon, I can add scummarining to the case...

There was still 24+ hours if I recall correctly. It was a dumb idea.

This got fubared, now fixed

[Commander9]

Vote Cena

To get this moving... Deadline is slowly coming and this has been dying out. Perhaps this will help Cena to respond.

[Fircoal]

There was less than 24 hours. Deadline was about 12 hours away at that point. I believe i posted Saturday morning, and deadline was Saturday evening. Seems interesting that edoc preferred a no lynch.

Also if you were really so worried about someone like me coming to hammer nag, then why did you guys have three votes on him in the first place? You don't put someone at L-1. if you don't want them to be lynched, because you know someone can always come and hammer.

This seems like a convenient argument to be made by those who were on nag's wagon, but can say "oh but we didn't hammer him, we just voted him." The votes have to accumulate somehow.

It was a joke vote that I never had the time to unvote. By the time I thought and remembered I had my vote on him and should unvote, it already ended up being a lynch.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Vote Count
vio (1) - edoc
fircoal (1) - vio
cena (2) - streaker, commander

6 alive, 4 to lynch
deadline saturday

[edocsil]

We need cena to get in here. I really don't see him as scum.

So the way things are we need to hang scum today. I think it is safe to assume the setup is 2 scum 1 doc, 4 VT, with 1 VT dead. We also can't trust anyone who claims to be a cop. They would just call their scum mate as innocent/a townie as guilty. We would hang the wrong person. The count is 2 scum and 3 townies, one of which they kill during the night 2v2, scum win. IF they don't get the doc hung and IF the doc protects the right person during the night we have one more day at LyLo and those odds are pretty bad.

So the point of this is I think the doc should claim. It will clear two townies so we have 2 scum 2 unproven VT and 2 proven townies 50/50 odds, a lot better then the current 2 to 1 odds against that we have for hanging at random. The doc could be counter claimed, but then we know one of them is lying and the odds are still 50/50.

What say you, with the deadline approaching I do not want to have a repeat of yesterday.

[Commander9]

We need cena to get in here. I really don't see him as scum.

So the way things are we need to hang scum today. I think it is safe to assume the setup is 2 scum 1 doc, 4 VT, with 1 VT dead. We also can't trust anyone who claims to be a cop. They would just call their scum mate as innocent/a townie as guilty. We would hang the wrong person. The count is 2 scum and 3 townies, one of which they kill during the night 2v2, scum win. IF they don't get the doc hung and IF the doc protects the right person during the night we have one more day at LyLo and those odds are pretty bad.

So the point of this is I think the doc should claim. It will clear two townies so we have 2 scum 2 unproven VT and 2 proven townies 50/50 odds, a lot better then the current 2 to 1 odds against that we have for hanging at random. The doc could be counter claimed, but then we know one of them is lying and the odds are still 50/50.

What say you, with the deadline approaching I do not want to have a repeat of yesterday.

Well, worst case scenario - if we can't decide anything by the deadline, we can always delay the decision till the next day. Right now there's 6 of us alive, (could be a last day if we lynch a townie and then scum successfully do a kill), but if we don't lynch anyone, we'd have 5 people next day and additional time to discuss our lynch.

Also, as far as cena, how can you rule him?

[edocsil]

We need cena to get in here. I really don't see him as scum.

So the way things are we need to hang scum today. I think it is safe to assume the setup is 2 scum 1 doc, 4 VT, with 1 VT dead. We also can't trust anyone who claims to be a cop. They would just call their scum mate as innocent/a townie as guilty. We would hang the wrong person. The count is 2 scum and 3 townies, one of which they kill during the night 2v2, scum win. IF they don't get the doc hung and IF the doc protects the right person during the night we have one more day at LyLo and those odds are pretty bad.

So the point of this is I think the doc should claim. It will clear two townies so we have 2 scum 2 unproven VT and 2 proven townies 50/50 odds, a lot better then the current 2 to 1 odds against that we have for hanging at random. The doc could be counter claimed, but then we know one of them is lying and the odds are still 50/50.

What say you, with the deadline approaching I do not want to have a repeat of yesterday.

Well, worst case scenario - if we can't decide anything by the deadline, we can always delay the decision till the next day. Right now there's 6 of us alive, (could be a last day if we lynch a townie and then scum successfully do a kill), but if we don't lynch anyone, we'd have 5 people next day and additional time to discuss our lynch.

Also, as far as cena, how can you rule him?

Yeah I thought about a NL too. The problem is there is a 1 in 3 chance that the scum kill the doc and then we don't don't know who they protected N1 that leaves us with 2 scum 3 unconfirmed townies, and worse odds then 50/50 also, then it takes 3 to lynch, one misplaced vote for the scum to to a tag team hammer. I think it is safer to do it now when it takes 4 to lynch rather then tomorrow with 3. the final option is for the doc to claim now, but then the odds get really messy depending on what the scum and the doc do. Best case scenario still ends up being 50/50 LyLo, and a dead doc.

[Commander9]

Yeah I thought about a NL too. The problem is there is a 1 in 3 chance that the scum kill the doc and then we don't don't know who they protected N1 that leaves us with 2 scum 3 unconfirmed townies, and worse odds then 50/50 also, then it takes 3 to lynch, one misplaced vote for the scum to to a tag team hammer. I think it is safer to do it now when it takes 4 to lynch rather then tomorrow with 3. the final option is for the doc to claim now, but then the odds get really messy depending on what the scum and the doc do. Best case scenario still ends up being 50/50 LyLo, and a dead doc.

It's more than just stats, Doc. I generally agree with what you're saying, but a well planned and discussed lynch is better than a fast deadline forced (possibly scum hurried) lynch. If we can get people in discussing, I'd rather do the lynch now, but it seems that with nag gone, it's mainly 2 of us.... and it's not going anywhere.

[edocsil]

With deadlines like this all that the scum have to do is stay quiet and take an easy win, that's why I suggested earlier rather then later. We need that doc claim now, so we can sift through the pieces after the fallout.

[Streaker]

With deadlines like this all that the scum have to do is stay quiet and take an easy win, that's why I suggested earlier rather then later. We need that doc claim now, so we can sift through the pieces after the fallout.

No, I don't think the doc has to claim at this point. I have been trying to point you guys in the right direction, and it's a lead we can follow. Like you say, edoc, all that scum has to do is stay quiet. Who is staying quiet in this small game?

cena (was active previous day, but when it's a very important time for town, magically disappears)
fir (put up effort to post this day)
Vio (being somewhat active, but from what i see in other games, this isn't abnormal)

I will also add this to my case against cena:

Day 1 the first vote on nag was from Fir. He can easily say it's a joke vote, and it's truth. Cena was the one to wagon early on day 1.
Also there was a post from cena we only had 2 good suspects: nagerous and edocsil. Now I have strong belief they are both town, it's scummy to nominate 2 townies in a small game on day 1. What happens? Town hangs one of their own, cena's mission is complete, and lays low during the next day as we rush a lynch.

I will, however, ask for the doc to out himself when it's the general opinion to do so.

[edocsil]

With deadlines like this all that the scum have to do is stay quiet and take an easy win, that's why I suggested earlier rather then later. We need that doc claim now, so we can sift through the pieces after the fallout.

No, I don't think the doc has to claim at this point. I have been trying to point you guys in the right direction, and it's a lead we can follow. Like you say, edoc, all that scum has to do is stay quiet. Who is staying quiet in this small game?

cena (was active previous day, but when it's a very important time for town, magically disappears)
fir (put up effort to post this day)
Vio (being somewhat active, but from what i see in other games, this isn't abnormal)

I will also add this to my case against cena:

Day 1 the first vote on nag was from Fir. He can easily say it's a joke vote, and it's truth. Cena was the one to wagon early on day 1.
Also there was a post from cena we only had 2 good suspects: nagerous and edocsil. Now I have strong belief they are both town, it's scummy to nominate 2 townies in a small game on day 1. What happens? Town hangs one of their own, cena's mission is complete, and lays low during the next day as we rush a lynch.

Cena is the only reason I am alive. I am town, so I think he is town. You will not have my vote. If he is scum you cannot hang him, the only way you can lynch him is if you are wrong and he is town.

I will, however, ask for the doc to out himself when it's the general opinion to do so.

[Streaker]

Eh, why quote when you don't add something? Or what am I missing?

[edocsil]

With deadlines like this all that the scum have to do is stay quiet and take an easy win, that's why I suggested earlier rather then later. We need that doc claim now, so we can sift through the pieces after the fallout.

No, I don't think the doc has to claim at this point. I have been trying to point you guys in the right direction, and it's a lead we can follow. Like you say, edoc, all that scum has to do is stay quiet. Who is staying quiet in this small game?

cena (was active previous day, but when it's a very important time for town, magically disappears)
fir (put up effort to post this day)
Vio (being somewhat active, but from what i see in other games, this isn't abnormal)

I will also add this to my case against cena:

Day 1 the first vote on nag was from Fir. He can easily say it's a joke vote, and it's truth. Cena was the one to wagon early on day 1.
Also there was a post from cena we only had 2 good suspects: nagerous and edocsil. Now I have strong belief they are both town, it's scummy to nominate 2 townies in a small game on day 1. What happens? Town hangs one of their own, cena's mission is complete, and lays low during the next day as we rush a lynch.

I will, however, ask for the doc to out himself when it's the general opinion to do so.

Cena is the only reason I am alive. I am town, so I think he is town. You will not have my vote. If he is scum you cannot hang him, the only way you can lynch him is if you are wrong and he is town.

* I fubared the quotes again.

[Streaker]

Wait, and how is Cena the ONLY reason you are alive? Why can't I hang him if he is scum? That doesn't make sense... Especially the part where I can only hang him if I am wrong...

[Commander9]

Wait, and how is Cena the ONLY reason you are alive? Why can't I hang him if he is scum? That doesn't make sense... Especially the part where I can only hang him if I am wrong...

Got to agree with Streaker - that was possibly the scummiest thing so far. You seem awfully defencive about him, Doc. Consider this - scum often employ a strategy to defend a townie to gain credibility and look pro-town and it's much easier for them... Not sure how can you be so sure that he's pro-town... Unless you know more than us?

[Mr. Squirrel]

I'm prodding cena and suspending the deadline til he returns

[edocsil]

The math is pretty simple guys, you could go through it easily on your own... 6 players, 2 are scum and wont hang one of their own, and I won't hang Cena without a more substantial case then you have against him. If he is scum there are 3 people who wont vote for him, me His scum mate and himself. It take 4 to lynch. Come on now.

As for him being the reason I am alive, this one is even worse. Who were you going to hang yesterday? Me. If Cena hadn't come along and got things started on Nag I would have been dead. There really shouldn't be any question to that at all. Perhaps you would have waited till deadline, but you would have hung me if not for the wagon getting turned around on Nag.

[Commander9]

The math is pretty simple guys, you could go through it easily on your own... 6 players, 2 are scum and wont hang one of their own, and I won't hang Cena without a more substantial case then you have against him. If he is scum there are 3 people who wont vote for him, me His scum mate and himself. It take 4 to lynch. Come on now.

As for him being the reason I am alive, this one is even worse. Who were you going to hang yesterday? Me. If Cena hadn't come along and got things started on Nag I would have been dead. There really shouldn't be any question to that at all. Perhaps you would have waited till deadline, but you would have hung me if not for the wagon getting turned around on Nag.

But how do we know that you're not both scum? Furthermore, you still can't answer my main question - how do we know that he wouldn't kill one townie to save another townie to gain credibility.

Doc, I understand that this is almost a Stokholm syndrome (well, not exactly, but I can relate to it - don't try to find sense here ) and that cena is your hero who saved you from lynch, but it doesn't save us in our eyes.

[VioIet]

Fircoal was online today, and still didn't bother to make a post.

FOS Fircoal plus the Vote.

I don't quite follow edoc's theory for the following reasons.

Lets say hypothetically, both edoc and cena are town, and Fir is scum.

Both cena and edoc have no idea of anyone's alignment but their own, and Fir of course knows that they are both town.

Cena blindly tries to to redirect the bandwagon from edoc to naggy (another townie).

Edoc feels convinced that cena is a townie because he saved a townie in order to lynch another townie

Fir sits back laughing watching the whole thing, without posting much, and just lets the game take its flow.

Then I come and hammer.

Let's say the situation was on the reverse, and originally the bandwagon was on naggy and cena redirected it to edoc. Would edoc still feel cena was town in that situation?

What if the roles were switched, and it was commander who had redirected a bandwagon on streaker- then would edoc be convinced that commander was town?

Basically what I'm trying to say- is that it doesn't seem to matter who it is- and who they redirected the wagon on, but as long as they helped edoc not get lynched- they must be town.

I just feel that I am missing something because I really don't get this line of thought. Edoc normally has great logic, so I must be missing something- or he knows something that the rest of us don't.

[edocsil]

You mostly have what I am getting at vio. You have to look at it from the other persons perspective. If commander was the one who redirected the wagon off me I would think he was town too, as a scum would have just let the easy lynch go by. Commander however is a better player / puts more effort in the games then Cena in my opinion. I could see him doing what happened simply to gain the towns trust, but far less likely then someone like Nag, Mandy or anyone else with a particular history of twisted thought.

What I am trying to say is that I will not follow a wagon with limited substance, but if something more significant comes up I will happily put the noose on Cena. What I am saying is that this game is going to turn into a game of Russian Roulette and I chose not to point the gun at Cena first.

Vio, you did however completely ignore my posts in regard to the doc claiming who he protected in an effort to clear two townies. I would like your feedback.