US Military Action in Libya?

[thegreekdog]

I think if we truly want to see whether America is pro-protestors in the Middle East, we'll find out with Saudi Arabia.

[Qwert]

well patern are quite clear now,when Greate President sarcozy say,that bombarding its need to bring down Guadafi- from begining when rebels wining in fight, they stay close and observe, but now when guadafy start wining,they imediatly ask for bombarding. Oil its one crazy drugs for some countries who are tirsty for big profit. And ofcourse they have cover for that- for all these are guilty guadafy. Well get ready for another Nato Humanitarian Bombarding, where target are not civilian, and any mistake are colateral damage,who will protect Nato Pilots for kiling civilian.

"What you hit?"
"Some people who moving in a road"
"Dont worry, its colateral damage, its hes fault for drive in these road who are our target"

These hepend many times in Yugoslav bombard, also hepend in Afganistan many times, and Nato word colateral damage, its great word to cover any aerial killing of civilian. Every time civilian foud guilty not pilots.

[Phatscotty]

I loved hearing how a no-fly zone is not a military strike. I also loved hearing how the USA, who makes up over 85% of Nato, "handed over power to Nato" and a Canadian General is in charge....2 levels underneath American Commanders.

A lot can happen in 30 days huh?

[patches70]

Are We Allied to a Corpse?
by Patrick J. Buchanan
04/19/2011



Of our Libyan intervention, one thing may be safely said, and another safely predicted.

When he launched his strikes on the Libyan army and regime, Barack Obama did not think it through. And this nation is now likely to be drawn even deeper into that war.

For Moammar Gadhafi's forces not only survived the U.S. air and missile strikes, after which we turned the air war over to NATO, his forces have since shown themselves superior to the rebels. Without NATO, the rebels would have been routed a month ago.



And, today, NATO itself stands a chance of being humiliated.

"NATO's Bomb Supply Is Running Short," ran Saturday's headline in The Washington Post over a story that began thus:

"Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in maintaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time. ...

"The shortage of European munitions, along with the limited number of aircraft available, has raised doubts ... about whether the United States can continue to avoid returning to the air campaign if Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi hangs on to power."

Only six NATO nations have planes running strikes on the Libyan army, and the French and British, who are doing most of the bombing, are running out of laser-guided munitions. And their planes are not equipped to handle U.S. smart bombs.

NATO air attacks are thus becoming less precise and lethal, as Gadhafi is pounding Misrata, the last rebel-held city in the west, and his army is again contesting Ajdabiya, the gateway to Benghazi.

In short, the war is not going well. Where does this leave us?

If the United States does not get back on the field, the Libyan army will likely crush resistance in Misrata and push the rebels back to Benghazi and Tobruk.

As the rebels lack the soldiering experience or organization to conduct an offensive, and their NATO air arm is weakening, the best they can probably hope for in the near term is to hold on to what they have in the east. Which means a stalemate -- a no-win war.

Can Obama accept such an outcome to a war he started, at the outset of which he declared Gadhafi must go? Can he go into 2012 with Republicans mocking him for picking a fight with Gadhafi, then losing it for the United States? Can Obama leave Gadhafi in Tripoli knowing he is plotting terror attacks against America in reprisal?

If Gadhafi survives, does Obama survive?

Can he tell the beleaguered British and French we are not going to double down on our folly of having started this war?

In an op-ed last week in The New York Times, Obama, along with Nicolas Sarkozy and David Cameron, wrote:

"Our duty and our mandate is ... not to remove Gadhafi by force. But it is impossible to imagine a future for Libya with Gadhafi in power. ... It is unthinkable that someone who tried to massacre his own people can play a part in their future government."

But if it is "unthinkable" and "impossible" for Gadhafi to remain in power, who is going to remove him?

Absent celestial intervention, it is Uncle Sam, or no one.

If regime change is now the unstated NATO mission, who but the United States can ensure the mission is accomplished?

The Post story about Britain and France, the leading military powers of NATO Europe, depleting their smart-bomb supply in a one-month clash with an African nation of 6 million, and begging the Yanks to come back and win the war for them, raises a major question.

Is the most successful alliance in history, which kept the Red Army of Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev from smashing through the Fulda Gap and reaching the Channel, a hollow shell?

Is NATO, without America, a paper tiger?

On the eve of World War I, the German foreign minister, after visiting the aged Emperor Franz Josef in Austria, reported back to the Kaiser, "Sire, we are allied to a corpse."

Are we?

In the 1990s, we had to pull the British and French chestnuts out of the Bosnian fire. When Serbs fought for their cradle province of Kosovo, America had to break Belgrade with 78 days of bombing.

NATO Europe couldn't handle a fight in its own backyard.

Though we are still in Iraq, NATO is gone. There are NATO units in Afghanistan, but some have pulled out and others won't fight.

What benefit does America receive from membership in NATO to justify the cost of maintaining tens of thousands of troops, air and naval bases, ships and planes defending a rich and populous continent that chronically refuses to provide the arms and men to defend itself?

Why are Americans still defending Europe 66 years after World War II ended and a generation after the Soviet Union disappeared?

Isn't it time we kicked them out of the nest?

In before American grounds troops land.

You know, it is easy to start a war, keeping one going is another matter all together.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

[muy_thaiguy]

Yeah, I'd like to call out on the people who said Obama would "bring change!" Only difference is, is that now we are going to be fighting in fucking Libya because Europe can't do a damn thing on their own anymore.

[Qwert]

""refuses to provide the arms and men to defend itself? ""
Now its question where Britain and France need to defend itself, in libya??
Nato(US) togetehr with britain france and other pupet forces attack libya, i though that NATO(US) have rule that ,only in case that someone other attack some member of NATO,they going to defend. Ofcourse that only 6 of 20 something member of NATO(US) want toi show hes superiority over libya goverment. All other member dont understand why they need to bombard libya,and refuse to participiate in these sharade.

[saxitoxin]

Nato(US) togetehr with britain france and other pupet forces attack libya

It seems that even in the US' puppet countries like Britain the people are opposed to the colony-makers which proves there is no democracy in the west. A fact finding mission from the Socialist Labour Party has found -zero- evidence that Colonel Ghaddafi has attacked any civilians at all:

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=626486

This is like Serbia '99 when the US claimed the Yugoslav Army had killed 400,000 Kosovars, only later it turned out only 2,000-3,000 died and almost all were KLA terrorists.

[Qwert]

""Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, has accused the Gaddafi regime of passing out tablets of Viagra to his front line troops to help them rape women.""

Its these a joke- i though they find some serious violation, and they "find" that Libyan army get viagra. Now if "kiling civilian,torture prisoner" not working,then these stuff with viagra,will definitly crack libyan army,to laid down weapons and surender. I mean ,who wrote these story for press? What next will be "Quadafy are one small green alien" "Goverment troops ride donkies,because hes all tanks are destroyed" They realy need to find some real WMD, so that people finaly belive in Western propaganda.

[Phatscotty]

""Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, has accused the Gaddafi regime of passing out tablets of Viagra to his front line troops to help them rape women.""

Its these a joke- i though they find some serious violation, and they "find" that Libyan army get viagra. Now if "kiling civilian,torture prisoner" not working,then these stuff with viagra,will definitly crack libyan army,to laid down weapons and surender. I mean ,who wrote these story for press? What next will be "Quadafy are one small green alien" "Goverment troops ride donkies,because hes all tanks are destroyed" They realy need to find some real WMD, so that people finaly belive in Western propaganda.

The viagra trick is tried and true. It was used successfully on Uday and Qusay Huesien at their American eulogy.

More Obama games and secret wars. I wonder what happened to public opinion. It seemed, before the U.S. military acted in Libya, barely a soul supported Military action. What changed? oh, Obama did it.

That's what we call sound foreign policy. Recipe for disaster if you ask me.

[saxitoxin]

""Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the UN, has accused the Gaddafi regime of passing out tablets of Viagra to his front line troops to help them rape women.""

This is like when Saddam Hussein said Bart Simpson was home seducing American troops wives while they were in Kuwait. Most Americans, unfortunately, don't understand how absolutely asinine and totally silly Rice sounds when she pulls this stuff out of the air.

[BigBallinStalin]

Did Obama unofficially declare war on Libya in order to reward himself for an easy victory so that he looks more marketable for the upcoming election? (How much did such an incentive encourage him to make such a decision?)

[saxitoxin]

Apparently Col. Qaddafi's 8 year old grandson was violating the No-Fly Zone as the US/NATO just killed him and several of his young siblings, according to news reports.

[Phatscotty]

Did Obama unofficially declare war on Libya in order to reward himself for an easy victory so that he looks more marketable for the upcoming election? (How much did such an incentive encourage him to make such a decision?)

Don't see how that is going to work when CC opinion polls are 87% Obama should have never order the military into Libya in the first place.

CC is more better than Pugh or Rasmussen

[saxitoxin]

Did Obama unofficially declare war on Libya in order to reward himself for an easy victory so that he looks more marketable for the upcoming election? (How much did such an incentive encourage him to make such a decision?)

Don't see how that is going to work when CC opinion polls are 87% Obama should have never order the military into Libya in the first place.

CC is more better than Pugh or Rasmussen

I've seen "Obama = War Criminal" stickers popping up here in beautiful Santa Barbara. I'm going to take a couple pics tomorrow when I'm out and about and upload here.

[Pirlo]

Gadafi's youngest son & 3 grand-children are dead

[saxitoxin]

Jamahariyah Television is live streaming from Green Square right now a spontaneous anti-Obama rally of the Libyan youth pledging to avenge the dead Libyan children. This is how so-called terrorist groups find their genesis- in the rage of a trampled people. I'm sure ten years from now the next boogeyman everyone will be making color-coded warnings about will be called the April 30 Front.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/thawrah#u ... ium=social

They're also chanting the Arabic-language version of the codebook slogan El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! (can't spell it in Arabic, perhaps Andrea can help), which we last heard way back during the Islamic revolution in Iran in '79. Obama's warmongering policies will leave behind a militarized, radicalized state of an enraged people. He has opened a Pandoras box that will never be closed.

[Pirlo]

the video contains a religious stuff usually chanted when someone is dead.. something like elegy. but it's not slogan or something.

[saxitoxin]

the video contains a religious stuff usually chanted when someone is dead.. something like elegy. but it's not slogan or something.

oops, think they switched off the rally when you clicked-on ... they'd been broadcasting for like 3 hours but then they switched to a prayer thang

They had been singing an Arabic version of "The People United Shall Never Be Defeated", the Latin American anti-Yankee anthem -- (e.g. of the song here from El Salvador at the People's Congress of the Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHz7WPpAIwc).

[Qwert]

Its look that NAto(us), going to use plan B, because Plan A are not give good results,with plan B they want to press guadafy to surrender.

plan B-bombarding infrastructure of Libya(tv station, oil factory, hospital, other factories,civilian buildings)
plan A-destroy all heavy armor,and light weapons,included all air forces of libya

[Phatscotty]

Its look that NAto(us), going to use plan B, because Plan A are not give good results,with plan B they want to press guadafy to surrender.

plan B-bombarding infrastructure of Libya(tv station, oil factory, hospital, other factories,civilian buildings)
plan A-destroy all heavy armor,and light weapons,included all air forces of libya

This is Iraq all over again! The only difference is the way it was orchestrated, with a touch of Cass. I hold from the day Obama was elected...."this is all going to be about what looks like what is going on, and nothing to do with what is going on."

[InkL0sed]

Its look that NAto(us), going to use plan B, because Plan A are not give good results,with plan B they want to press guadafy to surrender.

plan B-bombarding infrastructure of Libya(tv station, oil factory, hospital, other factories,civilian buildings)
plan A-destroy all heavy armor,and light weapons,included all air forces of libya

This is Iraq all over again! The only difference is the way it was orchestrated, with a touch of Cass. I hold from the day Obama was elected...."this is all going to be about what looks like what is going on, and nothing to do with what is going on."

It's really not the same thing as Iraq. Let me count the ways...

(actually, I'm not going to)

[saxitoxin]

Its look that NAto(us), going to use plan B, because Plan A are not give good results,with plan B they want to press guadafy to surrender.

plan B-bombarding infrastructure of Libya(tv station, oil factory, hospital, other factories,civilian buildings)
plan A-destroy all heavy armor,and light weapons,included all air forces of libya

They need to get the oil faster; the Yankees and their puppet British and French clients ... they don't have time to wait. If they need to level hospitals to get to the oil they will. Now Obama is massacring Muslim holy men engaged in peace prayers, Libyan schoolchildren, etc.

It's too bad as it's now totally unsafe for Americans to travel abroad, though it's the fault of their dictator, Obama, and not them. These scenes seem now repeated across the world daily ...

[Pirlo]

I live in the region and I know that Gadaffi is an oppressive terrorist... Libyans are revolting over a criminal family. wake up saxi

[Phatscotty]

Wondering if the changes in the Middle East are going to affect the US pullout of Iraq?

What makes you think we will ever leave Iraq? Hell, we still got troops in Japan and Germany and WWII was over going past 65 years now.....

we wont leave Iraq, but we will change the name of our troops who are in Iraq from combatants to peace keepers with an assault rifle.

[saxitoxin]

in U.S. cities young people are beginning to revolt against the Obama regime through subtle acts of resistance