Vegans and Vegetarians, why oh why?

[Gillipig]

Whenever I meet a vegetarian or a vegan somehow we never get along! I think it's because they tend to be very defensive about their non preference of meat and refuse to discuss it in an open minded way. I guess what I'm wondering is why vegans and vegetarians like to speak about their views but refuse to do so in an orderly manner?

[radiojake]

Whenever I meet a vegetarian or a vegan somehow we never get along! I think it's because they tend to be very defensive about their non preference of meat and refuse to discuss it in an open minded way. I guess what I'm wondering is why vegans and vegetarians like to speak about their views but refuse to do so in an orderly manner?

It's pretty easy to get defensive about being vegetarian considering the dominance of meat consumption in our culture. Meat is in practically everything, and while vegetarian/vegan options are becoming more widespread, meat is by far more dominant. Other times people ridicule you because being vegetarian is akin to being 'a fairy, poofter, commie or queer' (to quote one encounter) -


I don't know who you have been talking with to get the impression that vegetarians/vegans refuse to speak in an orderly manner, maybe you have been speaking to the wrong ones.

I can explain my entire ethos on my vegetarianism (although I can't claim to be 'strict' in the sense that I occasionally do eat flesh, however I have my own reasons for my limited consumption of meat) if you are interested in a discussion -

[Neoteny]

If you can't get along with every vegetarian you meet, perhaps you are the common denominator in your problem?

[Gillipig]

If you can't get along with every vegetarian you meet, perhaps you are the common denominator in your problem?

Indeed! I prefer to discuss it in an open way without accepting that meat eaters are vile brutes. I must be the problem!

[oVo]

I've never had a problem discussing diet
with people who prefer not eating meat.

[Victor Sullivan]

Whenever I meet a vegetarian or a vegan somehow we never get along! I think it's because they tend to be very defensive about their non preference of meat and refuse to discuss it in an open minded way. I guess what I'm wondering is why vegans and vegetarians like to speak about their views but refuse to do so in an orderly manner?

Well, what is your opinion of rdsrds2120?

-Sully

[gannable]

its pretty simple -

you're obviously judgmental about the person being a vegatarian so naturally you're going to cause them to react defensively. you're probably invading their space and making a huge deal out of it. does anyone question you about eating potato chips and Mcdonalds?

personally, im not a vegetarian, however i eat a healthy diet with lots of vegtables; i make these healthy smoothies every morning and then i eat a good meal at Wholefoods that does include chicken or salmon and occasionally beef (beef - not healthy)

whenever the subject is brought up people generally think that is crazy, "oh how can u eat like that, bla, bla, bla". the line of questioning is basically based on ignorance so its very annoying. anymore, i basically blow the person off when they attempt talking about it because its gotten to the point where its boring to listening too. the bottom line - if eating healthy makes you feel better, gives you a better chance at living longer than its really not a choice, its common sense

most Americans are fat slobs who eat a junk food diet, they're basically too ignorant to do anything to take care of their most important asset (their own bodies)

[Neoteny]

If you can't get along with every vegetarian you meet, perhaps you are the common denominator in your problem?

Indeed! I prefer to discuss it in an open way without accepting that meat eaters are vile brutes. I must be the problem!

lol?

[oVo]

The older you get, the easier it is to eat healthier. Although some habits
are impossible to break for many people... usually it's sugar.

I've known a veggy exclusive couple for a long time who occasionally eat fish
and usually do cow once a year, typically prime cut lean beef tenderloin.

[KoolBak]

Most Americans are fat slobs? There's a well thought out, deductive statement....wow. I assume fat slob = obese and apparently "only" 26% are obese (although that is an abhorrent number)...so......nicely stated ;o)

[Gillipig]

its pretty simple -

you're obviously judgmental about the person being a vegatarian so naturally you're going to cause them to react defensively. you're probably invading their space and making a huge deal out of it. does anyone question you about eating potato chips and Mcdonalds?

personally, im not a vegetarian, however i eat a healthy diet with lots of vegtables; i make these healthy smoothies every morning and then i eat a good meal at Wholefoods that does include chicken or salmon and occasionally beef (beef - not healthy)

whenever the subject is brought up people generally think that is crazy, "oh how can u eat like that, bla, bla, bla". the line of questioning is basically based on ignorance so its very annoying. anymore, i basically blow the person off when they attempt talking about it because its gotten to the point where its boring to listening too. the bottom line - if eating healthy makes you feel better, gives you a better chance at living longer than its really not a choice, its common sense

most Americans are fat slobs who eat a junk food diet, they're basically too ignorant to do anything to take care of their most important asset (their own bodies)

You've misunderstood me completely! It's probably my fault for not more clearly stating my view on the subject combined with my username indicating that I'm a fat slob. I don't eat at McDonalds but even if I would that wouldn't really make me much of a meat eater because their burgers contain very little protein and a whole lot of fat and carbs. aka very little real meat. I don't mind people eating healthy since I do that myself. Fish, bird and wild animals are my main sources of protein and I rarely eat food with empty calories. I'm a bit of fitness freak and I'm going to run a marathon in June next year. So it's not the healthy part of being a vegetarian that I mind. I agree with the notion that a lot of domesticated animals are being horribly treated. And I think they should get better treatment. What I can have a hard time understanding is those who are vegans because they don't think it's natural for us to eat meat or that they are so fond of animals that they equal it to eating a human. I have an even harder time understanding vegetarians arguing that they don't mind eating fish but won't eat meat because it comes from mammals. What both vegetarians and vegans have a hard time understanding and where the discussion turns nasty is when I tell them that their choice of food is more destructive to our earth than the regular McDonalds eater. My choice in food is the most destructive though because I eat a lot of animals that aren't domesticated and therefore harder to produce in large quantities. But I think I'm compensating that by not driving my car when I absolutely have to, recycle, help trying to restore the amazon rainforest through donations and voting for a green political party. I eat earth unfriendly food because it's the best for my body and there are plenty of other ways to help our society to move in the right direction. But I do applaud that most people eat animals like pigs and cows because if everyone ate like me there wouldn't be any wild animals that can be eaten left, all fish would've been eaten (that is still about to happen unfortunately). But a lot of vegans/vegetarians are in denial about their negative influence on our planet.A vegans main source of protein is often soy. And soy is grown in countries around the equator. Where rainforest used to stand soy is being grown. Farmers make a lot of money on soy and the more people who crave soy the more pressure there is on the Brazilian government to keep deforestation the amazon rainforest for example. They make money not just on the wood but also on the new cropping ground for soy being cleared. Just think of if everyone would've been a vegan. What would we eat? Humans need protein to survive. And since fat can only turn into carbs and carbs can only turn into energy there's no way for our bodies to create muscles and without muscles we're dead. My conclusion: if everyone turned into vegan we would gradually die of starvation!

[cyrenius]

You brought up a very interesting problem. First I might presume that you have a very agressive aproch of the problem.Am I right. On the other hand vegetarians and vegans tend to be defensive mainly for 2 reasons
1. The meat eating majority tend to label vegetarians and vegans ant least as strange people if not freeks. I know from my own experience, I am vegetarian and when I meet new people and they find out that I'm not eating meat they make a perplex face and ask me "you don't eat meat at all" like they are asking how can I stand on my feet without eating meat.
2. Vegetarians and vegans are not informed. If we make a paralel betwen the digestive track of carnovores , omnivores, herbivores and humans we learn that humans are pretty much herbivores, not even omnivores, and not at all carnivores

Here is a very good and documented article that explains that statment very well

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

[cyrenius]

And about soy, the may procentage of the soy production is for animal feed(stock animal not companion)
You know thet for the production of 1 kg meat it's necesary the consuming of 10 kg feed.
So the rain forest goes so you can eat meat

[PLAYER57832]

And about soy, the may procentage of the soy production is for animal feed(stock animal not companion)
You know thet for the production of 1 kg meat it's necesary the consuming of 10 kg feed.
So the rain forest goes so you can eat meat

This is true if you look to factory farming. However, it definitely does not have to be true. Ruminents became tied to humans because they can utilize grasses and such that we cannot eat.. so they were not taking food from humans, but were expanding our food source. Also, the fertilizer they provide is critical to natural agriculture.

[cyrenius]

Also, the fertilizer they provide is critical to natural agriculture.

The fertilizer is a sub product, and it would be so good if it all be used, unfortunatly natural agriculture is a very smal procentage overall, and not because is less productive.

[PLAYER57832]

Also, the fertilizer they provide is critical to natural agriculture.

The fertilizer is a sub product, and it would be so good if it all be used, unfortunatly natural agriculture is a very smal procentage overall, and not because is less productive.

This is true, but vegetarians who attack all meat eating actually make things worse. To keep sustainable agriculture going means keeping it a profitable enterprise. A better approach is to actively buy meat from sustainable sources. Not everyone has that option, but even if you don't buy meat.. to attack sustainably produced meat is counter-productive overall.

[cyrenius]

My conclusion: if everyone turned into vegan we would gradually die of starvation!

WRONG .It is necesary a bouble surface of soil to feed a neat eater then a vegetarian, and a vegan nedds half then a vegetarian

And since fat can only turn into carbs and carbs can only turn into energy there's no way for our bodies to create muscles and without muscles we're dead

Here's some interesting data.(Don't mind the dramatic side of the documentary, just folow the facts)
http://vimeo.com/9281226

And since fat can only turn into carbs and carbs can only turn into energy there's no way for our bodies to create muscles and without muscles we're dead

In the first link you will find also a list of profesional athletes vegan and vegetarians.

Let's look at some of the largest land animals. Elephants, hippos, rino, all herbivorous. Don't seem to lack muscles, and only thing that kills them are humans

[AndyDufresne]

Guys, guys, guys.

In the future, we will all just be eating various allotments of Sustenance Capsules with purely synthetic components. Then there will be no debate about carnivores or herbivores or omnivores. We will all just be capsulivores.




--Andy

[cyrenius]

Also, the fertilizer they provide is critical to natural agriculture.

The fertilizer is a sub product, and it would be so good if it all be used, unfortunatly natural agriculture is a very smal procentage overall, and not because is less productive.

This is true, but vegetarians who attack all meat eating actually make things worse. To keep sustainable agriculture going means keeping it a profitable enterprise. A better approach is to actively buy meat from sustainable sources. Not everyone has that option, but even if you don't buy meat.. to attack sustainably produced meat is counter-productive overall.

I don't wan't to attack anyone, I'm vegetarian so I'm defensive . Everyone can make his own choise, if you like to eat meat then eat meat, it's not my problem. If I like to eat veggies, then I'll eat veggies, it's not you'r problem.
But when someone makes the statement: "if everyone turned into vegan we would gradually die of starvation!" and in fact is the other way around, I have to reply "No good Sir , you are teribly wrong" and present the facts. Cause in every discutions we need to back up our opinions with facts. Don't we?

So bon appetit everyone whatever your meal is.
And Gillipig, if you still have "why oh why"'s regarding the subject...don't be shy

[cyrenius]

Guys, guys, guys.

In the future, we will all just be eating various allotments of Sustenance Capsules with purely synthetic components. Then there will be no debate about carnivores or herbivores or omnivores. We will all just be capsulivores.




--Andy

I would like the brown ones they look like chocholate, I think I could live for some time only with chocholate

[AndyDufresne]

They kind of look like whoppers or milk balls or something. Mmmh, candy-capsule-delicious.




--Andy

[PLAYER57832]

But when someone makes the statement: "if everyone turned into vegan we would gradually die of starvation!" and in fact is the other way around, I have to reply "No good Sir , you are teribly wrong" and present the facts. Cause in every discutions we need to back up our opinions with facts. Don't we?

Oh, I would never say that vegans are unhealthy. Most Americans eat way too much meat. I tend to serve 2-3 vegetarian meals to my family, even though we are not vegetariens, for cost, variety (a lot of international dishes are vegetarien) and health reasons.

I just wanted to point out that your earlier statement about meat meaning destruction of the rain forest, etc don't at all have to be true.. and should not be. Those are symptoms of corporate structure, power, etc.

There is a big difference between saying "we all should eat less meat" and "we need to pay attention how the meat we eat is raised" and saying "go without meat to save the world", etc. I don't know that this is your position, but it is one expressed by more militant vegetariens, some quite prominent. Ironically,eating the wrong vegetables can be, if not worse, for the environment than eating factory raised cattle.

We all need to look at the sources of our food and the impact raising it has.. no matter if its vegetarien food or meat, animal byproducts.

[cyrenius]

The fact is that most of the food we eat is crap (meat and vegetables alike) It's grown too fast with enhancements that deteriorates the quality.

As for my statement, you took it a bit out of content. It was a reply to an earlyer statement.
It was like Gillipig said " You vegetarians/vegans destroy the planet with your soy"
And I was like "No way, the soy is for your hamburger"
And he was like "You destroy the rain forest"
And I was like" No YOU destroy the rain forest "

Pretty much sums it up

[KoolBak]

Go get 'em Brother Cy

[Metsfanmax]

I just think eating meat is disgusting. If you all can stomach the thought of eating an animal, by all means do it.