D.T.W.A.

[jgordon1111]

ok failing it being plausible to do/do the harsh thing elderly and handicapped people only/and being a drug or alcohol addict is self inflicted and should not qualify/we would probably be amazed if people thought they were not going to get a check how many of them would look for a job/the ones that turn to crime/harsh no matter what the charge/if you have been on welfare and have now committed a crime chain gang cleaning up streets and roadsides 7.25 an hour/which a portion of that goes for your 3 baloney sandwiches you eat everyday until your sentence is up

[PLAYER57832]

if you have been on welfare and have now committed a crime chain gang cleaning up streets and roadsides 7.25 an hour/which a portion of that goes for your 3 baloney sandwiches you eat everyday until your sentence is up

And how is this going to help society?

Seriously, prisons turn out harsher criminals, they certainly don't help people on drugs.

Anyway, the point is that this testing will target EVERYONE, even before they apply, and there is only a very small percentage of people on welfare who take drugs. There are more who drink, but this measure doesn't target them at all.

[natty dread]

What about people who don't like baloney sandwiches?

[jgordon1111]

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.if our prison system was harsher than the criminals themselves they wouldnt repeat their offenses to go back. you dont like baloney eat the bread its still going to cost you about 21 dollars a day enjoy. prime example of a good law enforcement system is germany.you get smart assed with them you get your ass beat, very limited police brutality there,hmm i wonder why.maybe its because the average citizen there is aware you get your ass beat for being stupid with the polizie. in panama if your family doesnt bring you food in jail you dont eat.good system takes the onus of care off state and govt. and it will tell you how much your family thinks of you quick. to some people who think its our responsibility to take care of criminals i ask you.why? did we commit the crime no!so back to putting the addicts who commit crimes on a chain gang working off their debts to us 3yrs on a chain gang will break an addicts habit quick.and they will either love baloney or bread their choice they put themselves there not us. i have been to other countries and the justice system is not ran by liberals in most of them.yes you are always going to have the criminal element in any society.but time alone and us paying for it is not the way.let them and their immediate family pay for it.you realize how many welfare families would rat out family members if they thought they had to pay for it.just give them a break on the cost and it would be alot of people on chain gangs

[PLAYER57832]

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.if our prison system was harsher than the criminals themselves they wouldnt repeat their offenses to go back. you dont like baloney eat the bread its still going to cost you about 21 dollars a day enjoy. prime example of a good law enforcement system is germany.you get smart assed with them you get your ass beat, very limited police brutality there,hmm i wonder why.maybe its because the average citizen there is aware you get your ass beat for being stupid with the polizie. in panama if your family doesnt bring you food in jail you dont eat.good system takes the onus of care off state and govt. and it will tell you how much your family thinks of you quick. to some people who think its our responsibility to take care of criminals i ask you.why? did we commit the crime no!so back to putting the addicts who commit crimes on a chain gang working off their debts to us 3yrs on a chain gang will break an addicts habit quick.and they will either love baloney or bread their choice they put themselves there not us. i have been to other countries and the justice system is not ran by liberals in most of them.yes you are always going to have the criminal element in any society.but time alone and us paying for it is not the way.let them and their immediate family pay for it.you realize how many welfare families would rat out family members if they thought they had to pay for it.just give them a break on the cost and it would be alot of people on chain gangs

I started to answer your post, but the truth is you WAY off topic, so much that I am not sure you really read the thread?

This thread is about testing EVERYONE who APPLIES for welfare for drugs.. just drugs, not alchohol. It is not about criminals at all, except that of course using illegal drugs is a crime. The question is whether testings folks applying to get food aid for drugs is really a cost-effective way to crub any drug problem, not whether we are treating convicted criminals too softly.

So, anyway, if you want to talk about drugs and the criminal justice system here, the prison system or just drug and alchohol use in general, I suspect several of us would be interested, but just not here.

And our problem with Phattscotty is that he keeps trying to claim this is about us liking drugs and other garbage, rather distorting the entire issue (so I cannot blame you for thinking that might actually be the topic at hand).

[GreecePwns]

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.

If there were a correlation between how good life is in a prison and how bad the visitors become afterward, you would find emirical evidence from whose prisons focus on rehabilitation over punishment and the crime rates of their ex-cons. In addition, you'd find data proving harsher punishment lowers ex-con crime rates. But the evidence points overwhelmingly in the opposite direction.

But that's not even what you're saynig. You're saying they have more rights than the average citizen, and you're wrong. This is beyond questioning commonly held beliefs and into being just plain wrong.

[natty dread]

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.if our prison system was harsher than the criminals themselves they wouldnt repeat their offenses to go back.

Do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?

I say that is bullshit. Making the punishments harsher and laws stricter does nothing to reduce crime rates. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

you dont like baloney eat the bread its still going to cost you about 21 dollars a day enjoy. prime example of a good law enforcement system is germany.you get smart assed with them you get your ass beat, very limited police brutality there,hmm i wonder why.maybe its because the average citizen there is aware you get your ass beat for being stupid with the polizie. in panama if your family doesnt bring you food in jail you dont eat.

Ok... you like police brutality? You like giving police free hands to beat up people?

There's a country that would love to have you as a citizen. It's called China.

good system takes the onus of care off state and govt. and it will tell you how much your family thinks of you quick.

What if you have no family? Shit out of luck, eh?

Reading your posts is like pouring raw sewage straight into my brain. What reality do you live in? Does it have any connection to the one the rest of us reside in? Anything?

to some people who think its our responsibility to take care of criminals i ask you.why? did we commit the crime no!so back to putting the addicts who commit crimes on a chain gang working off their debts to us 3yrs on a chain gang will break an addicts habit quick.and they will either love baloney or bread their choice they put themselves there not us.

You're either a clueless teenager or a brainwashed puppet. Or maybe both.

In reality, the laws are designed to put poor people and other non-wanted persons in jail and keep them there. The laws are also designed to keep rich people out of jail. The prison industry is a huge business in some countries, and corrupt police and legal systems are sending criminals in them to maintain the status quo - which only benefits the already rich people.

Rich people and their corporations get to screw over the rest of us by bribing politicians and stealing our money, corrupting our planet with waste, all to make a quick buck... no one puts them (or the corrupt politicians) in jail - yet, a poor person goes to jail for smoking a fucking joint. And your "remedy" for this is to "put them all in a chain gang and feed them baloney"? That's just fucking retarded.

i have been to other countries and the justice system is not ran by liberals in most of them.

Why do you hate freedom so much?

Seriously, your posts are the most disgusting pieces of idiotic garbage I have had the bad fortune of pouring through my brain. Excuse me, I'm going to go pour bleach on my brain now, maybe that will remove the memory of reading your filthy drivel.

[BigBallinStalin]

What about people who don't like baloney sandwiches?

Because f*ck YOU.

[Woodruff]

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.

No...this is absolutely inaccurate. Please do a little research. I do like balogna, though.

[natty dread]

What about people who don't like baloney sandwiches?

Because f*ck YOU.

If the many worlds theory is right, and there is an infinite number of alternate realities, somewhere out there is an alternate reality where I am able to perform sexual intercourse with myself.

That's actually a scary thought.

[jgordon1111]

woodruff i misspoke my meaning. the average citizen isnt given three free meals a day,free cable,free medical care,free room,or free legal advice on how to beat the crime they commited(on the last legal advice) my reasoning there is that the average citizen isnt breaking the law therefore no free legal advice. woodruff pm me your last rank and mos if you would

[jgordon1111]

natty you read into it what you wanted to of course. i mean one law for all does not matter your station in life,high or low it goes for everyone. that is one of the reforms we have to work on as a country criminal is criminal. oh and natty have you ever served your country, i dont mean the liberalist drivel that is in your posts. if not if you havent been there done it seen it. SHUT THE F**K UP TO ME. all you want to do is spout your own thoughts as correct and read into anyone else post's what your anti american beleifs you want to see. as the saying goes love it or leave it. and before you respond with something stupid,it is with a matter of my familys pride that every male member of my family has served in every war back to the civil war. we have been officers we have been nco's. infantry,scouts,pilots,served in the army,navy airforce and marines.just what have you done except expound the B.S. on this forum because of people like my family and others have made possible for you.and to preempt your next response.you are welcome for our service so you can have the freedom's you seem to be willing to give away

[natty dread]

What I'm hearing is, you want a blowjob.

Sorry Bob, I'm not giving it to you.

[Phatscotty]

scotty does a lot of baiting, but has interesting things to say sometimes. too bad it's not what many on the forums want to hear...

If he'd stand up for his own ideas, it would make a huge difference. Unfortunately, when confronted with uncomfortable truths about his own statements, he simply chooses to ignore them and pretend they don't exist. I have no respect for that. You apparently do.

or maybe i don't think that happens at all...? you think?

I see, so he did not ignore our comments in the Welfare thread, claiming he had hard data and then not presenting it when challenged over it?

I couldn't F'n find it. It's such a red herring to get all twisted over the smallest piece of data in what had become about the 10th sub-section of it and be going on like this for weeks.

Fine, I recall my statement that I posted a link naming all the counties in Florida that offer free drug rehab. However, that says nothing about the statement of how many free rehab clinics there are in Florida, and every one of you knows there are many.

You know, in Florida many people get the insurance through the state, which is free. And most clinics accept state insurance if not all. How is that not free?

Red Herring

Guns would have prevented the killing of a lot of innocents Norway, and guns prevent the need for health care.

Keep on topic gang and level the red herrings in the proper thread in the future.

[Phatscotty]

Volunteer Mod-work.

[PLAYER57832]

Fine, I recall my statement that I posted a link naming all the counties in Florida that offer free drug rehab. However, that says nothing about the statement of how many free rehab clinics there are in Florida, and every one of you knows there are many.

No, not everyone knows this, because it is not true.

You said, specifically that there was a free rehab clinic in every county. Shortly after, I provided several links reporting that they listed all the rehab clinics and/ or all the free clinics and that information exactly disputed your "everybody knows" claim.

You know, in Florida many people get the insurance through the state, which is free. And most clinics accept state insurance if not all. How is that not free?

Nope, no dice. .. you said there were clinics in every county and there absolutely are not. Almost all are for alchohol, a few more handle Marihuana. Only a few handle the hard drugs that are the biggest problems.

YET.. despite all that, you STILL cannot even admit you were wrong.

Keep on topic gang and level the red herrings in the proper thread in the future.

LOL.. classic, refuting false data you claim to present (what I suspect is that you googled the same link I got a ways back, talking about free rehab clinics in Florida..but you never bothered to actually read what it actually listed, and I DID!),

[Phatscotty]

no, it was just in the guns - norway thread

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too. The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is ever going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide to get their shit together.

[Woodruff]

woodruff i misspoke my meaning. the average citizen isnt given three free meals a day,free cable,free medical care,free room

I don't have a problem with "free meals" or "free room" or even "free medical care" in most cases. I do agree with you that "free cable" is ridiculous, but I can also state that's not the case in all jails or all prisons by any means.

free legal advice on how to beat the crime they commited(on the last legal advice) my reasoning there is that the average citizen isnt breaking the law therefore no free legal advice.

That part is just due process...you don't believe in due process?

woodruff pm me your last rank and mos if you would

I don't need to PM it, I've posted it several times here. I retired as a Master Sergeant in the Air Force (E-7) after 23 years as a computer programmer and Unix system administrator. Why do you ask?

[PLAYER57832]

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too.

Never said they were.

The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is every going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide.

Here, I disagree as I explained above.

My point was that you were wrong.. yet you keep attempting to bounce around and STILL cannot even admit honestly that you were just wrong. (and yes, I admit when I am wrong, frequently.. but holding and opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean I am wrong. Putting down incorrect information does.)

ALSO, you STILL don't seem to get that the problem here is not even as much cutting off welfare checks for convicted of drug use, it is testing ALL APPLICANTS and randomly testing others.. amounts that are only refunded if they happen to actually qualify for welfare is an expensive and inefficient way to combat the problem. THAT is the biggest problem. This program is not designed to catch people on drugs, it is designed to earn money for the testing company and to penalize anyone who dares APPLY for welfare.

[Woodruff]

natty you read into it what you wanted to of course. i mean one law for all does not matter your station in life,high or low it goes for everyone. that is one of the reforms we have to work on as a country criminal is criminal. oh and natty have you ever served your country, i dont mean the liberalist drivel that is in your posts. if not if you havent been there done it seen it. SHUT THE F**K UP TO ME. all you want to do is spout your own thoughts as correct and read into anyone else post's what your anti american beleifs you want to see. as the saying goes love it or leave it. and before you respond with something stupid,it is with a matter of my familys pride that every male member of my family has served in every war back to the civil war. we have been officers we have been nco's. infantry,scouts,pilots,served in the army,navy airforce and marines.just what have you done except expound the B.S. on this forum because of people like my family and others have made possible for you.and to preempt your next response.you are welcome for our service so you can have the freedom's you seem to be willing to give away

You do realize that natty_dread doesn't live in the United States, right?

[Woodruff]

no, it was just in the guns - norway thread

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too. The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is ever going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide to get their shit together.

You misspelled "a great time for the addict to decide to turn to a life of crime". Hope that helps!

[Phatscotty]

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too.

Never said they were.

The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is every going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide.

Here, I disagree as I explained above.

My point was that you were wrong.. yet you keep attempting to bounce around and STILL cannot even admit honestly that you were just wrong. (and yes, I admit when I am wrong, frequently.. but holding and opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean I am wrong. Putting down incorrect information does.)

ALSO, you STILL don't seem to get that the problem here is not even as much cutting off welfare checks for convicted of drug use, it is testing ALL APPLICANTS and randomly testing others.. amounts that are only refunded if they happen to actually qualify for welfare. THAT is the biggest problem. This program is not designed to catch people on drugs, it is designed to earn money for the testing company and to penalize anyone who dares APPLY for welfare.

I specifically remember copy-pasting it. You have less proof that the post in question does not exist. I wonder if anyone else with any amount of honor can throw it on the line and say the remember reading that post?

I can't find it and I'm wondering if it might have been in another link, as this debate has spilled over into other threads thanks to Woodruff, as you see today in the Guns preventing killings in Norway thread.

Overall your point is still pointless, and I am ashamed to admit so much time and energy has been spent on such a silly distraction.

[PLAYER57832]

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too.

Never said they were.

The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is every going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide.

Here, I disagree as I explained above.

My point was that you were wrong.. yet you keep attempting to bounce around and STILL cannot even admit honestly that you were just wrong. (and yes, I admit when I am wrong, frequently.. but holding and opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean I am wrong. Putting down incorrect information does.)

ALSO, you STILL don't seem to get that the problem here is not even as much cutting off welfare checks for convicted of drug use, it is testing ALL APPLICANTS and randomly testing others.. amounts that are only refunded if they happen to actually qualify for welfare. THAT is the biggest problem. This program is not designed to catch people on drugs, it is designed to earn money for the testing company and to penalize anyone who dares APPLY for welfare.

I specifically remember copy-pasting it. You have less proof that the post in question does not exist. I wonder if anyone else with any amount of honor can throw it on the line and say the remember reading that post?

I can't find it and I'm wondering if it might have been in another link, as this debate has spilled over into other threads thanks to Woodruff, as you see today in the Guns preventing killings in Norway thread.

Your point is pointless

IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY MIS READ THE REPORT YOU POSTED! That is why you could not find it again! And.. I DID find not just one source, but multiple sources, including several with titles of "free rehab clinics in Florida", which is what made me think I found the link you saught.. and the clinics listed were mostly not for drugs.

And yet... despite my giving you contrary data, you keep insisting that you are correct and everyone else is wrong. That is the definition of poor integrity.

[radiojake]

i believe if you are on welfare you definetly need to be tested not only for drug abuse,but alcohol abuse as well. i have a sister in law 47 years old who worked a half day in her entire life,claimed that it made her to uncomfortable and then recieved a check every month since then... etc

the reason prisons now turn out harsher criminals is that bleeding heart liberals have given them more rights than the average citizen.

I find it funny when people get so bent up about how 'people on welfare/prison have it easier than I do and I work for my money, GOD DAMMIT' - Well if it is so god damn comfortable in prison and if your sister in law makes so much money from welfare why don't you do the exact same thing? - Wait a minute, maybe it's because you're likely to get butt fucked in prison and no one incarcerated would use the adjectives of 'cushy' or 'easy' as describing their environments.

The poor have always been the easy scapegoat for others to blame their problems on - Even though it's quite often that the poor have to least say to change their circumstances. Capitalism, after all, requires capital to be really successful, otherwise you are just selling your labour in a market that is impossible to provide 100% employment (after all, how can you keep wages down (and profits for shareholders and company directors up) without a pool of perpetually unemployed people available?)

[jgordon1111]

woodruff never saw your rank in the forum.didnt know you had made it public.guessed that you were military in the way you state your points.thank you for the answer though.well done and thanks for your service. and no i didnt check natty's origin.should have