Let's Balance the Budget (GP Plan: Annual $100B+ Surplus)

[GreecePwns]

I will be basing my estimates from the 2012 FY Budget, posted at the Office and Budget and Management. This is posted here. I will base my alternative policies from estimations from the CBO website where possible, and will link to all claims. I will attempt to save around $4 trillion dollars by 2016. But let's first take a look at what the 2012 budget predicts for the future. Most of my data will come from the Summary Tables.

The 2011 deficit was about $1.645T
The 2012 projected deficit is about $1.101T
For 2013, it is 0.768T
For 2014, it is 0.645T
For 2015, it is 0.607T
For 2016, it is 0.649T
The the total deficit for 2012-2016 will be $3.729T

The only things that truly can't be changed are interest payments (2.072 trillion) and TARP (34 billion, a token amount in comparison). Everything else is on the table. So go do some research and find a way to balance the budget yourself.

I will post my ideas later today or tomorrow.

[0ojakeo0]

eliminate all police offers fire fighters teachers

[Phatscotty]

eliminate all police offers fire fighters teachers

1000 Govt Expenditures We Can Cut Before Police n Teachers..

[whitestazn88]

Privatize everything.

[Army of GOD]

Kill everyone

[Baron Von PWN]

Nationalize sectors of the economy untile sufficient funds are raised to pay off the deficit.

[john9blue]

Kill everyone

[Pedronicus]

legalise marijuana

[Haggis_McMutton]

I think we should raise VAT and kill all the poor

[Augustus Maximus]

So much for any serious discussion on your very good topic. Your asking people to use their brains and engage in some critical thinking. This is a talent that requires too much effort for most here. Not to mention it would also require people get beyond their own self-imposed ideological boundaries, also a something very few are willing to do. The left will just say the same things about raising taxes on the rich, corporations, and cutting Defence. The right will just say the same things they always do, cut government, not raise taxes, get rid of the Dept. of Education. The reality it will require a combination of all of those. As much as we complain about Congress, they are merely a reflection of society where digging in and screaming at each other passes for serious debate.

[PLAYER57832]

So much for any serious discussion on your very good topic. Your asking people to use their brains and engage in some critical thinking. This is a talent that requires too much effort for most here. Not to mention it would also require people get beyond their own self-imposed ideological boundaries, also a something very few are willing to do. The left will just say the same things about raising taxes on the rich, corporations, and cutting Defence. The right will just say the same things they always do, cut government, not raise taxes, get rid of the Dept. of Education. The reality it will require a combination of all of those. As much as we complain about Congress, they are merely a reflection of society where digging in and screaming at each other passes for serious debate.

Not entirely, its just that a serious answer requires more time, so the jokesters are posting first.

[Haggis_McMutton]

So much for any serious discussion on your very good topic. Your asking people to use their brains and engage in some critical thinking. This is a talent that requires too much effort for most here. Not to mention it would also require people get beyond their own self-imposed ideological boundaries, also a something very few are willing to do. The left will just say the same things about raising taxes on the rich, corporations, and cutting Defence. The right will just say the same things they always do, cut government, not raise taxes, get rid of the Dept. of Education. The reality it will require a combination of all of those. As much as we complain about Congress, they are merely a reflection of society where digging in and screaming at each other passes for serious debate.

1. Are you new here? All topics have a mix of serious and non-serious replies.
2. I don't give a f*ck about the US budget.
3. Where is your budget proposal?

[GreecePwns]

This is what I have so far.

Revenue Increases
Return SS Rate for employees to 6.2 percent and remove the $106K cap: An increase of 3 percent of all currently taxable payroll. Social Security’s revenue is currently 12 percent of taxable payroll, which equals 677.1B. 15 percent would, by proportion, be about 846.4B, an increase in revenue of 169.3B. Source: Trustees Report 2011

Eliminate the Bush Tax Cuts for all incomes: An increase in revenue of 1,469B. Source: CBO-Produced Table found in a
Citizens for Tax Justice Report

Return Estate and Gift Taxes to 2001 Levels: An increase in revenue of 217B Source: CBO “Federal Estate and Gift Taxes

Remove Oil Industry Subsidies and Tax Provisions: An increase in revenue of 20B Source: CBO Report

Eliminated EITC and Child Credit Outlays: A total savings of $203.8B Source: CBO “EITC and Child Credit Outlays”

Spending Cuts
End funding of Overseas Contingency Operations (AKA the wars): This one does not have amounts for future years, so I will use the average of the last three years and multiply it by 5. This results in a savings of $764B. Source: Summary Tables of the Budget Table S-11

Move all Overseas Troops to domestic bases: A savings of 6.8 to 7.35B in 2004 dollars (I’ll use the middle), or 8.41B 2011 dollars. Source: CBO “Options for Changing the Army’s Overseas Basing

Cut Overall Defense Spending to 2000 Levels: A savings of around $250B Source: OMB – Annual Budget Documents Chart

EDIT: Just adding some stats below here

Total Revenue Increases: $2154.1B, or 67.8%
Total Spending Cuts: $1096.41B, or 32.2%
Total Deficit Reduction: $3251.51B

Average Yearly Surplus/Deficit 2012-2016 Before Changes: Deficit of $745.8B
Average Yearly Surplus/Deficit 2012-2016 After Changes: Deficit of $95.5B

[Baron Von PWN]

This is what I have so far. 3 trillion out of 4 have been saved


Revenue Increases
Return SS Rate for employees to 6.2 percent and remove the $106K cap: An increase of 3 percent of all currently taxable payroll. Social Security’s revenue is currently 12 percent of taxable payroll, which equals 677.1B. 15 percent would, by proportion, be about 846.4B, an increase in revenue of 169.3B. Source: Trustees Report 2011

Eliminate the Bush Tax Cuts for all incomes: An increase in revenue of 1,469B. Source: CBO-Produced Table found in a
Citizens for Tax Justice Report

Return Estate and Gift Taxes to 2001 Levels: An increase in revenue of 217B Source: CBO “Federal Estate and Gift Taxes

Remove Oil Industry Subsidies and Tax Provisions: An increase in revenue of 20B Source: CBO Report

Eliminated EITC and Child Credit Outlays: A total savings of $203.8B Source: CBO “EITC and Child Credit Outlays”

Spending Cuts
End funding of Overseas Contingency Operations (AKA the wars): This one does not have amounts for future years, so I will use the average of the last three years and multiply it by 5. This results in a savings of $764B. Source: Summary Tables of the Budget Table S-11

Move all Overseas Troops to domestic bases: A savings of 6.8 to 7.35B in 2004 dollars (I’ll use the middle), or 8.41B 2011 dollars. Source: CBO “Options for Changing the Army’s Overseas Basing

Cut Overall Defense Spending to 2000 Levels: A savings of around $250B Source: OMB – Annual Budget Documents Chart

As an addition to your line of thought in the first half, something which may save the US allot of money would be simplyfying their tax code. Scrap as many deductibles, exemptions, tax credits ect that you can. Accompanying this you may have to cut the tax rates a bit to make up for the loss of the deductibles to taxpayers. This would have a two fold benefit for the state, increased revenues through taxes(fewer deductions) and lower administration costs. It would also have some benefit for the tax payer by reducing the effort required of them to file their taxes.

[GreecePwns]

That is something I plan to add, a savings of around 75 billion, depending on how much I decide to drop rates.

[PLAYER57832]

instead of half editing more, I am redoing the whole thing. Will submit when done.

[Pedronicus]

My suggestion to legalise ganja wasn't a joke.

the money saved in police/ customs / court time plus however much it costs to keep a stoner in prison adds up, then there is the new tax revenue from the newly legalised product.

dunno how much it's going to save, but at least 10 billion.

[GreecePwns]

Player, that is all well and good, but there's very little there in terms of actual numbers concerning deficit reduction. Did you total how much that would save? Where are your sources saying if or how much your proposals would save?

[Night Strike]

Player, that is all well and good, but there's very little there in terms of actual numbers concerning deficit reduction. Did you total how much that would save? Where are your sources saying if or how much your proposals would save?

Because any governmental savings she posted are outweighed by more massive government spending. She turns over private insurance to the government, wants to expand the already failing Amtrak, drastically increases the number of immigrants to the country, and spends even more money on roads. And the places where she wants to add taxes will probably negate every projected revenue gain due to their stifling of the economy and businesses hiring fewer people just so they can pay these onerous taxes. And adding 10 MORE cents to the federal gas tax is absurd!! Families are already having difficulties paying $3.50 per gallon, yet she wants even more taxes on that. The federal government already collects 18 cents of every gallon in taxes (plus all the other taxes they add on to refineries and oil drilling), so they should be using that money on road.

[PLAYER57832]

Player, that is all well and good, but there's very little there in terms of actual numbers concerning deficit reduction. Did you total how much that would save? Where are your sources saying if or how much your proposals would save?

Yes, I realize that. I believe the problem in the long term is less about numbers and more about how we got the numbers we have. It's not a complete list, either.

Even so, I can try to get some numbers. (working on it now)

In the meantime, I found this link that gives a different, interesting perspective on the whole mess:
http://money.msn.com/investing/how-to-r ... jubak.aspx
I don't know that I agree with all of what he says, but he makes some points I thought might resonate with some people here. (and no doubt bother others).

[PLAYER57832]

Player, that is all well and good, but there's very little there in terms of actual numbers concerning deficit reduction. Did you total how much that would save? Where are your sources saying if or how much your proposals would save?

Because any governmental savings she posted are outweighed by more massive government spending. She turns over private insurance to the government

Works in every other country

wants to expand the already failing Amtrak

,Amtrak was designed to fail, so as not to be a legitimate threat to the car and oil industries. But, again, it works in every other country and even worked here in the past.

drastically increases the number of immigrants to the country

PAYING TAXES! And, since they would have to be paid more than citizens, I don't think the surge would be as great as you expect.

and spends even more money on roads.

Yes, as opposed to lawsuits when bridge after bridge around the country fails.

And the places where she wants to add taxes will probably negate every projected revenue gain due to their stifling of the economy and businesses hiring fewer people just so they can pay these onerous taxes.

Nice "probably" with no real data or facts or even real criticism.

And adding 10 MORE cents to the federal gas tax is absurd!! Families are already having difficulties paying $3.50 per gallon, yet she wants even more taxes on that.

Yes. Oil is a limited resource. Our gas here is absurdly cheap, compared to Europe. Its only because its so cheap that rail and other more efficient systems seem more expensive, but that is without taking all the subsidies into account. You talk of Amtrak as a big failure. Rails are private, its just Amtrak that is semi-public. Roads, by contrast are paid for by the government, except they are not really being maintained. So, the idea that they are cheap is not just wrong, its even more wrong than most people realize because a lot of people don't realize exactly how poorly maintained all our raods are.

The federal government already collects 18 cents of every gallon in taxes (plus all the other taxes they add on to refineries and oil drilling), so they should be using that money on road.

Still not enough to pay for itself.

[PLAYER57832]

Spending Cuts
End funding of Overseas Contingency Operations (AKA the wars): This one does not have amounts for future years, so I will use the average of the last three years and multiply it by 5. This results in a savings of $764B. Source: Summary Tables of the Budget Table S-11

Move all Overseas Troops to domestic bases: A savings of 6.8 to 7.35B in 2004 dollars (I’ll use the middle), or 8.41B 2011 dollars. Source: CBO “Options for Changing the Army’s Overseas Basing

Cut Overall Defense Spending to 2000 Levels: A savings of around $250B Source: OMB – Annual Budget Documents Chart

I like the rest of the cuts, but don't think we can just pull out of Afghanistan and forth. Also, moving troops to domestic bases might be cheaper, but would make them ineffective. I am sure there are savings to be found, but this would be too broad a stroke.

PS, I am in favor of eliminating EIC, etc. In fact, I am in favor of eventually eliminating all child tax credits.

[GreecePwns]

Which is what I have in my proposed changes, the rest of which will be delayed into tomorrow. A lot of your proposals have very little effect when it comes to deficit reduction. I am trying to put together a plan that would save 4 trillion in 5 years. This way, somewhere down the line, we can afford to enact some of the more expensive policies you listed.

Some things I will add to the list:
-The full legalization of marijuana made retroactive, the applying of a federal tax on it and the closing down of jail cells whose capacity is equal to that of the number of inmates released as a result of its passage
-The closing of loopholes and reduction in rates detailed in the Bowles-Simpson Plan

[saxitoxin]

Move all Overseas Troops to domestic bases: A savings of 6.8 to 7.35B in 2004 dollars (I’ll use the middle), or 8.41B 2011 dollars. Source: CBO “Options for Changing the Army’s Overseas Basing

Instead of just moving overseas troops to domestic bases, why don't you completely demobilize all overseas stationed troops? I doubt the U.S. has a need for five extra mechanized divisions in the CONUS to protect it from Manitoba so simply shifting troops from Okinawa to Omaha is a bookkeeping trick. By demobilizing the 120,000 troops in Germany, UK, ROK and Japan - at an average annual maintenance cost of $500,000 per soldier/sailor/airman* - you'd bump your annual savings from $8 billion to $60 billion.

Eliminate Block Grants

I'd further suggest eliminating 100% of non-entitlement (Social Security/Medicare) block grants from the federal government to the states, which is worth $400 billion in savings. If all the transportation, parks, police, education, health, etc. funding losses are too horrific for any individual state to absorb, said state can just raise their own taxes to make-up for the loss of federal funds; states with populations that are averse to tax increases can just choose to live with a more modest scope of government.

Eliminate Farm Subsidies

Also, cut $30 billion of $35 billion in payments to farmers not to grow food (I'm leaving a few bil in there to account for disaster guarantees). The drawback, of course, is that the elimination of the artificial price floor would completely destroy the agricultural sectors of every country in the world other than Russia, Canada and Australia, once the U.S. started outputting food to its full capacity. If France finds that idea horrifying then I suppose they can either take over paying the subsidies or withdraw from the WTO and establish customs protections around their domestic agriculture.

Privatize the FAA

Privatize the FAA in the same way Canada did with Nav-Canada (as a non-profit corporation). The FAA has an annual budget of $16 billion, according to their website (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/hea ... udget.aspx) $6 billion is in direct federal outlays, so you'd have a $6 billion reduction in the federal budget and the service fee cost would bump from around 7% to 10% of per ticket price (a $250 airline ticket would have fees increase from $18 to $25), though that would probably be high-end - a private entity could investigate creative funding mechanisms that a public entity couldn't.

Break-Up Amtrak

National rail doesn't work in Australia or Canada, it only works in little places like Japan and England. The U.S. is too geographically large with too clustered of a population for nation-wide rail to ever happen. The Northeast routes should all be turned over to the states they service. All the historic western routes like the Empire Builder and the California Zephyr are 2/3-empty and bleed money and should be shuttered if no one wants to buy them for tourism/novelty purposes. That's $1 billion/year in savings (Amtrak= $3.5 billion/cost vs. $2.5 billion/revenue).

SAXI SAVINGS: $497,000,000,000

* http://www.alternet.org/world/102187/th ... 2_in_iraq/

[saxitoxin]

One-Time $25 billion bonus -

To jump-start the U.S. economy, the U.S. government can cease using sovereign intervention to stop post-WWI German bond holders from collecting the money they're owed in U.S. courts (Germany owes $500 billion to private bond holders that were canceled by Hitler in 1933*). The USG should come to an agreement with individual bonds holders that they will stop meddling in the lawsuits against the F.R.G. in exchange for 50% of the collected value. Presumably Germany doesn't have that kind of cash, however, half of the Bundesbank's gold reserves ($100 billion) are stored in New York so a Sheriff's asset seizure can collect at least half of that amount. If that is split between the bond holders and the U.S., then equally split among U.S. citizens, each American can get a $100 Kohl's gift card which would be a big boost to the economy OR you could fund the world's largest refuge for homeless cats and watch AoG's tiny little body explode in a rainbow of delight, which would be a big morale-boost for unemployed Americans.




* http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/08 ... arer-bond/