USA Downgraded

[Fruitcake]

Any one who pays any attention to what those complete morons in the ratings agencies say deserves everything they get. The ratings agencies, lest we forget. were the tossers who said Lehmans were sound just before they collapsed...these were the same fools rating toxic debt at AAA ratings even though they were basically a bag of shit ( http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=15 )

[GreecePwns]

I will put up a post in this thread either today or tomorrow the GP Plan, a synopsis of which you can find above, whose redirection of spending and tax increases will be 4 trillion or more, as well as result in a more efficient economy.

you of course mean medium term 3-5 years right ? not long term(10 years+)? since, we have been talking about SnP's specific comments about failure to fix medium term debt dynamics.

If you could also tell us which future revenue projections you will be using.

I have started a new thread on this, so everyone can do this themselves. I will post my ideas there.

[Phatscotty]

Any one who pays any attention to what those complete morons in the ratings agencies say deserves everything they get. The ratings agencies, lest we forget. were the tossers who said Lehmans were sound just before they collapsed...these were the same fools rating toxic debt at AAA ratings even though they were basically a bag of shit ( http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=15 )

and if the other shoe drops? (moodys)

[PLAYER57832]

When will we learn? Austerity doesn't work and it won't work this time either.

Drastic cuts would not be necessary if we would not have skyrocketed the amount we were spending each year.

yes, folks wanting food, a roof over their head and basic medical care and true education for their children are all just greedy bastards driving our economy into the ground.

Considering they want it by taking money from others through force instead of working for it themselves, yes, that is greed.

NO, that is the right wing propaganda machine you believe. The truth is that the OVERWHELMING majority of people want to make a decent living by WORKING.
Th few idiots exist, but they exist in ALL levels of the economic system.

But actually, the greedy bastards are the politicians you use the above sentiment to bribe voters to elect them. So they're all at fault.

No, the guilty are the millions who decided that telling other people how to live their lives is more important than protecting wages our overall freedoms, even the environment.

Also guilty, are the folks who think THEY deserve multi-million dollar salaries and stock dividends and that its perfectly OK to pay people $10 an hour in a city or even just shift an entire factory overseas, laying off almost everyone here, if that's what it takes to get them those bonuses. AND who moan and groan at having to pay even a penny more in taxes to support the high poverty they themselves helped create.

[Fruitcake]

Any one who pays any attention to what those complete morons in the ratings agencies say deserves everything they get. The ratings agencies, lest we forget. were the tossers who said Lehmans were sound just before they collapsed...these were the same fools rating toxic debt at AAA ratings even though they were basically a bag of shit ( http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=15 )

and if the other shoe drops? (moodys)

I can only direct you at my post back in 2008 (Temple of mammon thread)

It’s all looking pretty dire with Bear Stearns sold for $2 a share today (from $170 last year and 93% down on Friday close). Now the whispers are that none other than Lehman Brothers are in meltdown, Lehman's stock dropped 15% on Friday and around 20% Monday, even after Moody's Investors Service affirmed its credit ratings and said its financial position is strong (yeah right, they will keep talking these stocks up even as the ship sinks beneath the waves.)

In short, none of those idiots really know what's going on...and why? because they are god-damned lazy and don't get off their fat asses and actually pound the streets talking to the real people about what's going on.

[Fruitcake]

This is an extract from my published newsletter I used to send to a select circle (until some newspapers picked it up and I got threatened from the 4 corners of the planet but then I was being pretty shitty towards all these malingerers.)

The quote is from Tuesday, 21 July 2009 07:18

As if this isn’t enough to make one very wary of using Ratings Agencies in any shape or form, S&P now seems to hell bent on further devastation. Having been on the leading edge of AAA-rated financial destruction, this operation is now turning up the intensity and cleaning the mess it made by proposing "solutions" that will make a bad situation even worse. As has been well documented, one of the main problems for S&P and the other rating agencies was a near blind faith reliance on their internal models to make rating decisions and being simply overmatched by their Wall St. counterparts. To combat this, S&P recently indicated that it intends to introduce a revolving door philosophy and rotate analysts through different assignments. So S&P believes that rating integrity will improve by creating a legion of temporary analysts to opine on the credit quality of complex products that its dedicated analysts got absolutely and completely wrong for years. Bogus triple A ratings are clearly here to stay. What is it with these people? Surely they cannot be as stupid as they are now seeming to be….can they? You have been warned.

[PLAYER57832]

S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time

Reason: USA did not cut enough from it's "bloated" budget.

Standard & Poor’s announced Friday night that it has downgraded the sterling U.S. credit rating for the first time.

The move came even though the Treasury Department said that it had found a math error in the firm’s calculations of deficit projections, according to a person familiar with the matter.

S&P decided to lower the AAA rating, held by the United States for 70 years, to AA+ after a bipartisan debt deal signed into law this week failed to assuage concerns about the nation’s growing spending.

Analysts have said a downgrade could increase the cost of borrowing for the U.S. government and lead to tens of billions of dollars in more interest costs per year. That could translate into higher borrowing for consumers and businesses, too.

A downgrade would also have a cascading series of effects on states and localities that rely on federal funding, including in the Washington metro area, potentially raising the cost of borrowing for schools and parks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... print.html



Save the whole House or it will ALL burn down

The ones to blame here are all the idiot congresspeoople and "experts" trouncing around saying "go ahead and let us renig on our debts, we don't care".
There have always been contentions, but not paying our debt was never truly on the table until this summer.

[LaZCaTo]

With any luck we'll be seeing an end to global capitalism

Tangentially Related:
September 17 ~ Occupy Wallstreet

https://occupywallst.org/

Sure, a lot of starving people around the world will consider themselves very lucky. I suppose that just necessary tho right?

Those people are starving because of our economic system, the profit motivation inherent in capitalism makes it illogical to feed
the poor because there is little to be gained from doing so. So instead of feeding Africa, we have corporations dumping grain into the
ocean to keep prices high (this actually happens).

And what we're witnessing with the stagnation/recession/depression in global capitalism is the end of growth - Capitalism comes to a crisis
point when there's a barrier to growth, and since there's not much left on the planet to turn into capital (so they moved onto credit/debt)
& we've nearly reached the peak of sustainable credit/debt world-wide the whole system is gasping for air.

We should be wise to remember that capitalism was the tool that took us away from feudalism - it wasn't the goal, it's not the pinnacle of
human achievement.

For the current paradigm to continue, the only way is to consolidate capital, which means centralising & automating production and cutting
wages - which is only going to create further instability - and at best post-pone another crash for 5-10 yrs.

For those who are really interested in this, you should watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RGjCM



PS: Is there a way to embed videos in these forums? if not can someone make it happen [youtube][/youtube]

[PLAYER57832]

Any one who pays any attention to what those complete morons in the ratings agencies say deserves everything they get. The ratings agencies, lest we forget. were the tossers who said Lehmans were sound just before they collapsed...these were the same fools rating toxic debt at AAA ratings even though they were basically a bag of shit ( http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=15 )

I agree, but sadly, the credit card companies, etc are among those who DO pay attention... and will make all of us pay as a result.

[Pirlo]

Those people are starving because of our economic system, the profit motivation inherent in capitalism makes it illogical to feed the poor because there is little to be gained from doing so. So instead of feeding Africa, we have corporations dumping grain into the ocean to keep prices high (this actually happens).

And what we're witnessing with the stagnation/recession/depression in global capitalism is the end of growth - Capitalism comes to a crisis point when there's a barrier to growth, and since there's not much left on the planet to turn into capital (so they moved onto credit/debt) & we've nearly reached the peak of sustainable credit/debt world-wide the whole system is gasping for air.

We should be wise to remember that capitalism was the tool that took us away from feudalism - it wasn't the goal, it's not the pinnacle of human achievement.

For the current paradigm to continue, the only way is to consolidate capital, which means centralising & automating production and cutting wages - which is only going to create further instability - and at best post-pone another crash for 5-10 yrs.

For those who are really interested in this, you should watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RGjCM

you da man.

[saxitoxin]

We should be wise to remember that capitalism was the tool that took us away from feudalism - it wasn't the goal, it's not the pinnacle of
human achievement.

A great point, LZCT.

• The eurotrash Social Democrats and Fabians are a greater enemy than the oligarchs themselves; they denounce capitalism for the short-term gains they hope to reap by sowing petty ideological differences, ignorant to the long-term doctrine of the Movement of the Three-Revolution Red Banner which celebrates the capitalist advance as an oasis on the path to the ultimate goal of the abolition of the state and the introduction of an agrarian and craft-based economy without government, war, borders, chauvinism, racism or Zionism.

in the words of Honecker -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOrU8uN5B8A&t=1m14s
(forward always, backwards never!)

[Woodruff]

that means for college students such as my friends and I, school just became more expensive, as interest rates will go up.

You do realize that, while what you say is true, you were hurt far more by the requirements that The Tea Party Republicans put on "the budget deal" regarding payback of student loans than by those interest rates, right?

[Woodruff]

The republicans barely cut the military budget, and they refused to remove tax breaks on the ultrarich. That's got to figure in the picture.

at least the ideas of austerity are being propagated. it's a start.

In other words, General_Tao, "that's ok".

the Ryan plan barely touches the military.

well you can focus on specifics, and that may be true, but I am focusing on the size of the Ryan plan. That is the sized plan we needed.

In other words, General_Tao, "that's ok".

[john9blue]

i'm not so unrealistic as to expect congress to pass the exact reforms i want on the first try.

[saxitoxin]

Finally, a voice of reason on deficit reduction issues:

• Field Marshal Chen Binge, Chief of General Staff Headquarters of the Chinese People's Liberation Army:
  "The U.S. must slash its gigantic military expenditure and bloated social welfare costs and accept international supervision over U.S. dollar issues."
  http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... ml?ref=rss

Field Marshal Binge is right. Just by withdrawing and demobilizing forces from the so-called "ROK" and Japan, mothballing all aircraft carriers operating in the Pacific out of San Diego and Seattle, terminating the US-Phillippines so-called "defence agreement" and shuttering the USAF's so-called signals intel facilities in Pine Gap, Australia, the U.S. could probably eliminate half the deficit in one swoop.

[Phatscotty]

fully agreed, greece.

scotty, you can't really say that ANY spending is bad. the majority of our current spending is bad, but not ALL of it.

All of the overspending is bad with compoundable interest

[Woodruff]

Why S&P downgraded us: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mainst ... 6-861.html

[Phatscotty]

Why S&P downgraded us: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mainst ... 6-861.html

Nice opinion page. Thom Hartmann? Why don't you just link to Krugzy-man or Obama himself?

This is exactly what's the problem. People keep trying to interject politics into economics.

Cut the debt and borrowing. Nothing political about it.

[PLAYER57832]

Why S&P downgraded us: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mainst ... 6-861.html

Nice opinion page. Thom Hartmann? Why don't you just link to Krugzy-man or Obama himself?

This is exactly what's the problem. People keep trying to interject politics into economics.

Cut the debt and borrowing. Nothing political about it.

I see, and what part of economics tells you that going around saying you are just not going to pay what you owe people is a good way to foster respect?

[Phatscotty]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

[PLAYER57832]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

[Phatscotty]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

So how do we stop it?

[PLAYER57832]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

So how do we stop it?

The thread topic was the downgrade. If congress had, as they had in the past said something along the lines of "we will fight, but we have to pay our bills, no matter what...
Then the downgrade would have been far less likely. It was those tantrums that made the agencies stop and rethink what they did. More about politics than anything else, according to those involved in making the decision, anyway.

[Phatscotty]

newsflash: the default argument was political bullshit scare tactics.

Your assertion that politics has an effect on our rating at a time when our debt is passing 100% of our GDP is completely asinine.

[PLAYER57832]

newsflash: the default argument was political bullshit scare tactics.

Your assertion that politics has an effect on our rating at a time when our debt is passing 100% of our GDP is completely asinine.

Ah well, apparently the agencies disagreed with you. Or did you miss the part where I said that's the explanation their reps are giving?