American gun culture

[wildwilliam]

GUNS!!!!!!!!!!

f*ck Yeah!

[KoolBak]

Lmao...nice ;o)

Or this:

[Army of GOD]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

[Symmetry]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

In my opinion, almost only in fiction.

[Army of GOD]

Unless you are THE number one quick draw...a nd I don't mean "State Fair", NRA competition quick draw, either, I mean real life situations, against real people... you will lose.

I have seen this demonstrated many times in REAL self-defense classes. The kind where they take women aside and say "don't tell ANYONE this....". And, well.... the techniques do work, but no, I am not going to explain. (Except, as Woodruff noted, be aware of your surroundings, including avoiding areas that are very risky and do be self-assured)

I think this is kind of what I was trying to get at- that the way that people think about guns in the US is kind of the problem. Plenty of other countries own firearms at similar rates to the US, not so many talk about them as ways of improving personal safety or even as a freedom issue in the way the US does. I think that saxi pointed out a while ago that the UK started to have big problems with knife crime when some parts of the UK developed a youth culture that you needed to carry a knife to protect yourself.

But see, it IS a freedom issue with Americans. I know they're hypocritical when it comes to things like gay marriage and such, but conservatives don't enjoy being told what to do. I see the point for taxing the more wealthy at a higher percentage, but the whole point of America is to be able to own a gun, whether it's safer or not.

I mean, it's the second fucking amendment. f*ck an olive branch and arrows, the bald eagle in the American Great Seal should be carrying a musket and a double-barrel shotgun.

[Army of GOD]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

In my opinion, almost only in fiction.

I'm not really sure why I directed this question at you. Though I'm not really sure why you said "This is what I was trying to get at" in response to PLAYER's post, because while I get what you're talking about, what she was talking about came out of left field.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it. But whether gun owners fantasy of being attacked in the middle of the night is rational or not, I still think gun ownership is necessary in the US.

[Woodruff]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

Shouldn't you be asking PhatScotty that question? It's pretty much precisely my point.

[BigBallinStalin]

This seems appropriate:

[Phatscotty]

Looks like someone is alive today that was supposed to die yesterday.

A Philadelphia college student put his firearm carry permit to good use Monday, as he shot it out with a would-be robber, hitting him twice.

Robert Eells, 21-year-old Temple University student, was in front of his off-campus house smoking a cigarette at 1:30Am Monday when a group of teenagers approached him and asked for money. The main suspect- who is 15-years old- allegedly then attempted to rob Eells, who refused the demand for cash.

At that point, police say the suspect started shooting, and hit Eels in the stomach.

But Eels was able to fight back. He drew his own legal pistol and fired, hitting the attacker in the chest and leg.

School officials say Eells is recovering at Temple University Hospital. He had a license to carry the weapon he used and faces no charges in the incident.

[Phatscotty]

I'm looking back at all the shootings that you referred to in the OP, and I gotta wonder how many innocent shooting victims died with an holstered gun on their side?

I've already explained to you several times why "having a holstered gun on their side" will make them MORE LIKELY to die, rather than make them more likely to survive. You ignored it then, so why would you think anyone believes you won't ignore it now?

For what it's worth, I staunchly support the Second Amendment. I don't support morons like you, though.

I didn't ask for your support, nor did I ask you this question, nor did you even pretend like you were answering it.

Stop trolling please

[PLAYER57832]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

In my opinion, almost only in fiction.

I'm not really sure why I directed this question at you. Though I'm not really sure why you said "This is what I was trying to get at" in response to PLAYER's post, because while I get what you're talking about, what she was talking about came out of left field.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it. But whether gun owners fantasy of being attacked in the middle of the night is rational or not, I still think gun ownership is necessary in the US.

Look, if you listen to politicians, particularly those on the right, guns are about the constitution and freedom. IF, however, you talk to the average person, its about sport and hunting, at least in small towns and rural areas.

This is changing, but the whole idea that a gun will really provide defense outside of what's basically a military unit is just false. Guns work for personal defense ONLY if you are very well trained.. AND lucky!

[KoolBak]

Everyone I know is "well trained" regarding handling their weapons. Home defense is an absolute reality my dear....period. You can quote mishaps and I can quote successes, but bottom line is I and damn near everyone I know are well prepared to take care of ourselves.....luck aint an issue....lol.

This thread has grown so cold......brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

[PLAYER57832]

Everyone I know is "well trained" regarding handling their weapons. Home defense is an absolute reality my dear....period. You can quote mishaps and I can quote successes, but bottom line is I and damn near everyone I know are well prepared to take care of ourselves.....luck aint an issue....lol.

You are dreaming.

[Phatscotty]

Everyone I know is "well trained" regarding handling their weapons. Home defense is an absolute reality my dear....period. You can quote mishaps and I can quote successes, but bottom line is I and damn near everyone I know are well prepared to take care of ourselves.....luck aint an issue....lol.

You are dreaming.

Gun control people are unable to understand. Unfortunately, we have to wait for them to become victims of crime themselves until they wake the F up and stop denying the world we live in has people in it who wish to do harm sometimes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Someone is dreaming alright, and it sure the hell isn't Koolbak.

[Phatscotty]

Unless you are THE number one quick draw...a nd I don't mean "State Fair", NRA competition quick draw, either, I mean real life situations, against real people... you will lose.

I have seen this demonstrated many times in REAL self-defense classes. The kind where they take women aside and say "don't tell ANYONE this....". And, well.... the techniques do work, but no, I am not going to explain. (Except, as Woodruff noted, be aware of your surroundings, including avoiding areas that are very risky and do be self-assured)

I think this is kind of what I was trying to get at- that the way that people think about guns in the US is kind of the problem. Plenty of other countries own firearms at similar rates to the US, not so many talk about them as ways of improving personal safety or even as a freedom issue in the way the US does. I think that saxi pointed out a while ago that the UK started to have big problems with knife crime when some parts of the UK developed a youth culture that you needed to carry a knife to protect yourself.

But see, it IS a freedom issue with Americans. I know they're hypocritical when it comes to things like gay marriage and such, but conservatives don't enjoy being told what to do. I see the point for taxing the more wealthy at a higher percentage, but the whole point of America is to be able to own a gun, whether it's safer or not.

I mean, it's the second fucking amendment. f*ck an olive branch and arrows, the bald eagle in the American Great Seal should be carrying a musket and a double-barrel shotgun.

Symm - "the way people think in the US about their rights is kind of the problem."

AOG -"Conservatives like to be free"

[Army of GOD]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

In my opinion, almost only in fiction.

I'm not really sure why I directed this question at you. Though I'm not really sure why you said "This is what I was trying to get at" in response to PLAYER's post, because while I get what you're talking about, what she was talking about came out of left field.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it. But whether gun owners fantasy of being attacked in the middle of the night is rational or not, I still think gun ownership is necessary in the US.

Look, if you listen to politicians, particularly those on the right, guns are about the constitution and freedom. IF, however, you talk to the average person, its about sport and hunting, at least in small towns and rural areas.

This is changing, but the whole idea that a gun will really provide defense outside of what's basically a military unit is just false. Guns work for personal defense ONLY if you are very well trained.. AND lucky!

I don't believe this at all. Like Koolbak said, people who own guns practice with them often and get good at using them. It's not like professional gunmen are the people that invade their homes, so it's not like the gun owners are going to need to be the fastest gunman west of the Mississippi.

[wildwilliam]

1. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.

4. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

5. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

6. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

7. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.

8. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

9. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive.

10. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

11. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.

12. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

13. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

14. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

15. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

[PLAYER57832]

Everyone I know is "well trained" regarding handling their weapons. Home defense is an absolute reality my dear....period. You can quote mishaps and I can quote successes, but bottom line is I and damn near everyone I know are well prepared to take care of ourselves.....luck aint an issue....lol.

You are dreaming.

Gun control people are unable to understand. Unfortunately, we have to wait for them to become victims of crime themselves until they wake the F up and stop denying the world we live in has people in it who wish to do harm sometimes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Someone is dreaming alright, and it sure the hell isn't Koolbak.

LOL.. me anti-gun..... LOL

[PLAYER57832]

PLAYER and Symmetry, how often does a confrontation today come down to quick drawing?

In my opinion, almost only in fiction.

I'm not really sure why I directed this question at you. Though I'm not really sure why you said "This is what I was trying to get at" in response to PLAYER's post, because while I get what you're talking about, what she was talking about came out of left field.

I understand what you're saying and I agree with it. But whether gun owners fantasy of being attacked in the middle of the night is rational or not, I still think gun ownership is necessary in the US.

Look, if you listen to politicians, particularly those on the right, guns are about the constitution and freedom. IF, however, you talk to the average person, its about sport and hunting, at least in small towns and rural areas.

This is changing, but the whole idea that a gun will really provide defense outside of what's basically a military unit is just false. Guns work for personal defense ONLY if you are very well trained.. AND lucky!

I don't believe this at all. Like Koolbak said, people who own guns practice with them often and get good at using them. It's not like professional gunmen are the people that invade their homes, so it's not like the gun owners are going to need to be the fastest gunman west of the Mississippi.

Well, I will just take the word of some of the top trainers in the country over you, sorry.

You know, there was even an episode of Sons of Guns on this. He did NOT sell some folks guns for defense.

[PLAYER57832]

13. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

14. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

15. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

Almost NONE of this has to do with the thread or the debates. These three, in particular, show you seem to have read about 2 words, and suddenly want to launch into a "don't let them take our guns away" bunch of rhetoric.

Its people like you that are why guns ARE at risk! Because sane folks worry when people with guns won't even bother to listen to legitimate criticism or comments.. and note, I was not even giving real criticism of guns.

[wildwilliam]

13. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

14. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

15. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

Almost NONE of this has to do with the thread or the debates. These three, in particular, show you seem to have read about 2 words, and suddenly want to launch into a "don't let them take our guns away" bunch of rhetoric.

Its people like you that are why guns ARE at risk! Because sane folks worry when people with guns won't even bother to listen to legitimate criticism or comments.. and note, I was not even giving real criticism of guns.

you don't know me, so don't claim I am why guns are a risk. That statement just shows how ignorant you are. I don't even own a gun, nor do I care to. and you are saying it is a legitimate criticism. I am saying they are a bunch of shit.

[Phatscotty]

Everyone I know is "well trained" regarding handling their weapons. Home defense is an absolute reality my dear....period. You can quote mishaps and I can quote successes, but bottom line is I and damn near everyone I know are well prepared to take care of ourselves.....luck aint an issue....lol.

You are dreaming.

Gun control people are unable to understand. Unfortunately, we have to wait for them to become victims of crime themselves until they wake the F up and stop denying the world we live in has people in it who wish to do harm sometimes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Someone is dreaming alright, and it sure the hell isn't Koolbak.

LOL.. me anti-gun..... LOL

Okay then. Why do you say kool is dreaming? I see it pretty much the same way he said it.4t

[PLAYER57832]

13. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

14. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

15. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

Almost NONE of this has to do with the thread or the debates. These three, in particular, show you seem to have read about 2 words, and suddenly want to launch into a "don't let them take our guns away" bunch of rhetoric.

Its people like you that are why guns ARE at risk! Because sane folks worry when people with guns won't even bother to listen to legitimate criticism or comments.. and note, I was not even giving real criticism of guns.

you don't know me, so don't claim I am why guns are a risk. That statement just shows how ignorant you are. I don't even own a gun, nor do I care to. and you are saying it is a legitimate criticism. I am saying they are a bunch of shit.

I know you did not pay attention to what I said.. or Woodruff or anyone else.
and I do know what you have said.

[HapSmo19]

...the whole idea that a gun will really provide defense outside of what's basically a military unit is just false.

Clearly.

Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out With Armed Robber
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/philade ... ed-robber/

A Philadelphia college student put his firearm carry permit to good use Monday, as he shot it out with a would-be robber, hitting him twice.
Robert Eells, 21-year-old Temple University student, was in front of his off-campus house smoking a cigarette at 1:30Am Monday when a group of teenagers approached him and asked for money. The main suspect- who is 15-years old- allegedly then attempted to rob Eells, who refused the demand for cash.
At that point, police say the suspect started shooting, and hit Eels in the stomach.
But Eels was able to fight back. He drew his own legal pistol and fired, hitting the attacker in the chest and leg.
School officials say Eells is recovering at Temple University Hospital. He had a license to carry the weapon he used and faces no charges in the incident.
The suspect is also in the hospital, and will face aggravated assault and attempted robbery charges. Police are searching for two accomplices.

[Phatscotty]

...the whole idea that a gun will really provide defense outside of what's basically a military unit is just false.

Clearly.

Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out With Armed Robber
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/philade ... ed-robber/

A Philadelphia college student put his firearm carry permit to good use Monday, as he shot it out with a would-be robber, hitting him twice.
Robert Eells, 21-year-old Temple University student, was in front of his off-campus house smoking a cigarette at 1:30Am Monday when a group of teenagers approached him and asked for money. The main suspect- who is 15-years old- allegedly then attempted to rob Eells, who refused the demand for cash.
At that point, police say the suspect started shooting, and hit Eels in the stomach.
But Eels was able to fight back. He drew his own legal pistol and fired, hitting the attacker in the chest and leg.
School officials say Eells is recovering at Temple University Hospital. He had a license to carry the weapon he used and faces no charges in the incident.
The suspect is also in the hospital, and will face aggravated assault and attempted robbery charges. Police are searching for two accomplices.

You forget the most important thing. The reason the victim was shot was because he was carrying a gun, not because the criminal wanted his money.