Merged: Terminator Deadbeats I

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:02 pm

yeh i think you must recieve their points

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:17 pm

I don't think you do as I've seen this posted elsewhere. Remember to take out the deadbeat before the last player. Perhaps lack will fix this at some stage

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:19 pm

I don't think you should have to take out the deadbeat before hand, although it appears this is what you must do. Why would I chance weakening my armies on a deadbeat when I have a live opponent who may take advantage of me getting weaker. I thought it was sound strategy to focus on the live opponent, knowing that the deadbeat couldn't hurt me.
I think it is silly that a deadbeat got away without losing any points. I am sure this is a loophole that no one really thinks is justified.
Yes I would like the points I think I earned, but it bugs me more that a deadbeat kepth their points.

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:29 pm

The rules now make sense. Why would the game continue when you're the only one playing?
When you're attacking the last active player, and you want to get the deadbeats points, just trap him in a corner somewhere and don't let him build up any armies while you finish off the deadbeats.

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:42 pm

^I agree. Why keep playing the game...but why do the points disappear? That does not make sense. In any other game format, the deadbeat, no matter if someone takes all their armies or not, they lose points. The not losing any points is what doesn't make sense to me.

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:36 pm

keiths31 wrote:^I agree. Why keep playing the game...but why do the points disappear? That does not make sense. In any other game format, the deadbeat, no matter if someone takes all their armies or not, they lose points. The not losing any points is what doesn't make sense to me.

Because in terminator, the way to win points is by eliminating someone. The previous rule allowed people to deadbeat and they didn't lose any points, but now you still have to kill them to earn points, but you have to do it before ending the game.

CreepyUncleAndy · Post by **CreepyUncleAndy** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:14 am

AK_iceman wrote:
keiths31 wrote:^I agree. Why keep playing the game...but why do the points disappear? That does not make sense. In any other game format, the deadbeat, no matter if someone takes all their armies or not, they lose points. The not losing any points is what doesn't make sense to me.

Because in terminator, the way to win points is by eliminating someone. The previous rule allowed people to deadbeat and they didn't lose any points, but now you still have to kill them to earn points, but you have to do it before ending the game.

I think the consensus being put forth is that the current Terminator implementation is open to abuse, i.e., people chickening out and deadbeating out of a Terminator game to save their points.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:31 am

CreepyUncleAndy wrote:
AK_iceman wrote:
keiths31 wrote:^I agree. Why keep playing the game...but why do the points disappear? That does not make sense. In any other game format, the deadbeat, no matter if someone takes all their armies or not, they lose points. The not losing any points is what doesn't make sense to me.

Because in terminator, the way to win points is by eliminating someone. The previous rule allowed people to deadbeat and they didn't lose any points, but now you still have to kill them to earn points, but you have to do it before ending the game.

I think the consensus being put forth is that the current Terminator implementation is open to abuse, i.e., people chickening out and deadbeating out of a Terminator game to save their points.

And as soon as they deadbeat they are left completely defenseless and can be eliminated at any moment.

The goal of terminator is to eliminate opponents, not to win the game strangely enough. If a deadbeat wasn't eliminated by anyone why should you get the points? You didn't terminate them and neither did anyone else.

I think the situation may be a bit misleading as it currently stands (since you might expect that they'd lose points after seeing how it works in other game types) but when you understand how it actually works and you look at the big picture I think it makes sense.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:27 am

sully800 wrote:The goal of terminator is to eliminate opponents,

Far too many players miss out on the point of Terminator... often if you're losing the game you can still "win" by eliminating someone and making a points surplus in the game.

C.

Kahless · Post by **Kahless** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:35 am

I think the deadbeats points should automatically go to whoever defeats the last "live" player apart from themselves

Anything that rewards deadbeatting can only be bad for the game

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:33 pm

yeti_c wrote:
sully800 wrote:The goal of terminator is to eliminate opponents,

Far too many players miss out on the point of Terminator... often if you're losing the game you can still "win" by eliminating someone and making a points surplus in the game.

C.

Exactly - there's been some games that I've never been strong at all in but I still get 30 odd points out of

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:40 pm

Kahless wrote:I think the deadbeats points should automatically go to whoever defeats the last "live" player apart from themselves

Anything that rewards deadbeatting can only be bad for the game

I believe that too. I would have sat there and attacked them for an hour to conquer the board. Armies are still on the board, so why does the game have to be over when the last live player is killed?
Now that I know that this outcome is possible, I will play terminator games differently. This is not explained properly, I think, in the rules for Terminator. Like others have said, this can be abused. Any person who loses a game, deadbeat or eliminated properly, should not be aloud to keep their points, no matter the game type.

CreepyUncleAndy · Post by **CreepyUncleAndy** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:42 pm

keiths31 wrote:
Kahless wrote:I think the deadbeats points should automatically go to whoever defeats the last "live" player apart from themselves

Anything that rewards deadbeatting can only be bad for the game

I believe that too.

Yeah, the last man (or woman) standing should take the big pot at the end....a pot consisting of the sum of all the players who deadbeated out of the game.

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:42 pm

CreepyUncleAndy wrote:
keiths31 wrote:
Kahless wrote:I think the deadbeats points should automatically go to whoever defeats the last "live" player apart from themselves

Anything that rewards deadbeatting can only be bad for the game

I believe that too.

Yeah, the last man (or woman) standing should take the big pot at the end....a pot consisting of the sum of all the players who deadbeated out of the game.

Thats called a standard game. In terminator, the only way to earn points is by eliminating your opponents, there are no freebies even for deadbeats.

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:53 pm

I know the difference. My beef is that a deadbeat can get away without losing points. That is not right no matter what style of game is played.

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:08 pm

keiths31 wrote:I know the difference. My beef is that a deadbeat can get away without losing points. That is not right no matter what style of game is played.

They can, but only if the other players don't understand how terminator works. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. But I still have yet to hear a better suggestion than the current method.

Scorba · Post by **Scorba** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:41 pm

I agree that the winner should get the points. You're going to get players keeping their last active opponent alive with 1 country while they wipe out the deadbeats.

everywhere116 · Post by **everywhere116** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:47 pm

Scorba wrote:I agree that the winner should get the points. You're going to get players keeping their last active opponent alive with 1 country while they wipe out the deadbeats.

That is what you are supposed to do.

Gnome de Guerre · Post by **Gnome de Guerre** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:56 pm

AK_iceman wrote:
CreepyUncleAndy wrote:
keiths31 wrote:
Kahless wrote:I think the deadbeats points should automatically go to whoever defeats the last "live" player apart from themselves

Anything that rewards deadbeatting can only be bad for the game

I believe that too.

Yeah, the last man (or woman) standing should take the big pot at the end....a pot consisting of the sum of all the players who deadbeated out of the game.

Thats called a standard game. In terminator, the only way to earn points is by eliminating your opponents, there are no freebies even for deadbeats.

Ah, that makes sense. I vote no change.

Scorba · Post by **Scorba** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:24 am

everywhere116 wrote:
Scorba wrote:I agree that the winner should get the points. You're going to get players keeping their last active opponent alive with 1 country while they wipe out the deadbeats.

That is what you are supposed to do.

What's the point? Just assume that the winner kills the deadbeats after the game has finished. This avoids inconveniencing another player unnecessarily. The current situation is absurd.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:28 am

I had to do just that in this game...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=305337

C.

demigod · Post by **demigod** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:29 am

AK_iceman wrote:The rules now make sense. Why would the game continue when you're the only one playing?
When you're attacking the last active player, and you want to get the deadbeats points, just trap him in a corner somewhere and don't let him build up any armies while you finish off the deadbeats.

If you trap someone in the corner you'd better knock out the deadbeat within 2 rounds otherwise the active trapped player would deadbeat too. then you would get NO points for the game at all

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:25 pm

demigod wrote:
If you trap someone in the corner you'd better knock out the deadbeat within 2 rounds otherwise the active trapped player would deadbeat too. then you would get NO points for the game at all

And that could happen. That is why I think the points should be given for the last remaining active player. What is to stop someone from deadbeating if they know the other guy has to attack only the first deadbeat? Nothing. You could end up winning the game, because two players deadbeated and you get no points to show for it.

kickingcorysass · Post by **kickingcorysass** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:36 pm

So is there anything cc can do to fix this? In my terminator game (check 436956) there was just me and pink, and yellow had been kicked out. Anyway, I kept attacking pink because he was still a threat. Pink deadbeated, but i couldn't eliminate him in three turns. So I won the game but didn't get the points I would've got if I had like one or two more turns. As it was obvious I was going to eliminate him, it's possible pink just deadbeated knowing he wouldn't lose any points. How can this be fixed?

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:38 pm

Sorry, but in Terminator games you must terminate your opponent to receive points from him. If he decides to deadbeat to save some points, yes I know it's a loophole but that's what Feedback is for. Give him some feedback so that people know beforehand that he'll try and deadbeat the game.

But if you really can't stand playing with people like that, maybe Standard games are for you?

Merged: Terminator Deadbeats I

terminator points...