[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[betiko]

i'd really like some swifte action cause he is one of the guys with one of the most valuable opionions at this point, and he hasn't said anything since jim's claim.

[MoB Deadly]

we'll see if i was right to be rather on his side then if you are making him claim; but i think it's a strategical mistake as strike said. I think strike analysed perfectly the situation here. if he has a power role and we got 3 guys in the open... if he has to claim busdriver for example we would be giving away the game to scums basically!

I definitely want a claim from Rodion. We need to get to the bottom of his relation to Betiko. I think its worth the claim to gain this information.

fastpoted by betiko (second post)

[betiko]

we'll see if i was right to be rather on his side then if you are making him claim; but i think it's a strategical mistake as strike said. I think strike analysed perfectly the situation here. if he has a power role and we got 3 guys in the open... if he has to claim busdriver for example we would be giving away the game to scums basically!

I definitely want a claim from Rodion. We need to get to the bottom of his relation to Betiko. I think its worth the claim to gain this information.

fastpoted by betiko (second post)

sorry mob but i just noticed something; after saying all this, you are not voting for rodion. what are you waiting for then? you seem to have a quite certain opinion that making rodion claim is the best decision, but you are not stepping up. can you explain me why is that? if you are so sure, why are you not taking your own responsabilities? you know putting him at l-1 would make you look very scummy if his claim clears him out?

[MoB Deadly]

we'll see if i was right to be rather on his side then if you are making him claim; but i think it's a strategical mistake as strike said. I think strike analysed perfectly the situation here. if he has a power role and we got 3 guys in the open... if he has to claim busdriver for example we would be giving away the game to scums basically!

I definitely want a claim from Rodion. We need to get to the bottom of his relation to Betiko. I think its worth the claim to gain this information.

fastpoted by betiko (second post)

sorry mob but i just noticed something; after saying all this, you are not voting for rodion. what are you waiting for then? you seem to have a quite certain opinion that making rodion claim is the best decision, but you are not stepping up. can you explain me why is that? if you are so sure, why are you not taking your own responsabilities? you know putting him at l-1 would make you look very scummy if his claim clears him out?

Because if I put him at L-1, Rodion claims something important like Vigilante, then the scum can hammer him if I do not unvote in time. Plus any other unforeseen things like maybe Rodion is a Hated Townie, or someone has a double vote that has not been used yet. I avoid L-1 at all costs, unless the player is resisting. If Rodion makes a non-constructive post I will put my vote on him.

[betiko]

we'll see if i was right to be rather on his side then if you are making him claim; but i think it's a strategical mistake as strike said. I think strike analysed perfectly the situation here. if he has a power role and we got 3 guys in the open... if he has to claim busdriver for example we would be giving away the game to scums basically!

I definitely want a claim from Rodion. We need to get to the bottom of his relation to Betiko. I think its worth the claim to gain this information.

fastpoted by betiko (second post)

sorry mob but i just noticed something; after saying all this, you are not voting for rodion. what are you waiting for then? you seem to have a quite certain opinion that making rodion claim is the best decision, but you are not stepping up. can you explain me why is that? if you are so sure, why are you not taking your own responsabilities? you know putting him at l-1 would make you look very scummy if his claim clears him out?

Because if I put him at L-1, Rodion claims something important like Vigilante, then the scum can hammer him if I do not unvote in time. Plus any other unforeseen things like maybe Rodion is a Hated Townie, or someone has a double vote that has not been used yet. I avoid L-1 at all costs, unless the player is resisting. If Rodion makes a non-constructive post I will put my vote on him.

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

[jonty125]

we'll see if i was right to be rather on his side then if you are making him claim; but i think it's a strategical mistake as strike said. I think strike analysed perfectly the situation here. if he has a power role and we got 3 guys in the open... if he has to claim busdriver for example we would be giving away the game to scums basically!

I definitely want a claim from Rodion. We need to get to the bottom of his relation to Betiko. I think its worth the claim to gain this information.

fastpoted by betiko (second post)

sorry mob but i just noticed something; after saying all this, you are not voting for rodion. what are you waiting for then? you seem to have a quite certain opinion that making rodion claim is the best decision, but you are not stepping up. can you explain me why is that? if you are so sure, why are you not taking your own responsabilities? you know putting him at l-1 would make you look very scummy if his claim clears him out?

Because if I put him at L-1, Rodion claims something important like Vigilante, then the scum can hammer him if I do not unvote in time. Plus any other unforeseen things like maybe Rodion is a Hated Townie, or someone has a double vote that has not been used yet. I avoid L-1 at all costs, unless the player is resisting. If Rodion makes a non-constructive post I will put my vote on him.

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

[trinicardinal]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

[MoB Deadly]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

[chapcrap]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

I agree with MoB about the claim.

I also think that L-1 isn't a big deal. If someone is stupid and quick hammers, then it leads to them getting investigated and gives us a lead anyway. Quick hammering is a bad move for scum because it trades scum for town. That's a win for the town. So, in my mind, L-1 is only a good thing for the town.

[jonty125]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

I don't see how strike can advise a no lynch with a vote on Rodion

[trinicardinal]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

Well we're already at the point... I'm having a hard time trying to figure out who we need to concentrate more on at this point... Rodion, strike, chap or betiko... there are a lot of issues involving all 4 of them. As much as I am nervous about the possibility of another power role being disclosed I also think we will benefit from a Rodion claim.

[betiko]

fair enough. what is a hated townie by the way?

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

I agree with MoB about the claim.

I also think that L-1 isn't a big deal. If someone is stupid and quick hammers, then it leads to them getting investigated and gives us a lead anyway. Quick hammering is a bad move for scum because it trades scum for town. That's a win for the town. So, in my mind, L-1 is only a good thing for the town.

i think that if he claims a real good power role such as a vigilante or a bus driver its worth a trade town for standard scum for the mafia. and if he is a hated townie, he is down and we are one townie left; so i don't agree at all with your reasoning!! I even think it is scummy to encourage a l-1 in spite of the exposed reasons by mob.
I have already voted for you on day 1, and I think that this is something that makes me have new suspicions on you (i didn't buy rodion's case on you on day 2) but now i think you've crossed a line.

vote chapcrap

[Epitaph1]

I'm the most interested in the case on Rodion at the moment. I would like to hear his claim before I vote though.

[chapcrap]

I agree with MoB about the claim.

I also think that L-1 isn't a big deal. If someone is stupid and quick hammers, then it leads to them getting investigated and gives us a lead anyway. Quick hammering is a bad move for scum because it trades scum for town. That's a win for the town. So, in my mind, L-1 is only a good thing for the town.

i think that if he claims a real good power role such as a vigilante or a bus driver its worth a trade town for standard scum for the mafia. and if he is a hated townie, he is down and we are one townie left; so i don't agree at all with your reasoning!! I even think it is scummy to encourage a l-1 in spite of the exposed reasons by mob.
I have already voted for you on day 1, and I think that this is something that makes me have new suspicions on you (i didn't buy rodion's case on you on day 2) but now i think you've crossed a line.

vote chapcrap

I didn't have faulty reasoning. And I wasn't really encouraging anything. I was stating my view on the L-1 vs L-2 debate. Of course, you did find a reason to align yourself with Rodion again, didn't you?

[Rodion]

I didn't have faulty reasoning. And I wasn't really encouraging anything. I was stating my view on the L-1 vs L-2 debate. Of course, you did find a reason to align yourself with Rodion again, didn't you?

Start WIFOM. And you honestly think that if Betiko and I were part of a scumteam I would not have given him a lesson on how not to align himself with me so blatantly? I'd have coached him a lot better than that during N1. Dazza knows I do that when I'm mafia with new players (Zelda). You all don't need to know, though, but to think I'd allow connections to be so easily traced so that a Rodion-scum flip would lead to mafia losing a second member (Betiko) is so outrageous I feel offended. Close WIFOM.

Anyway, I'll claim if I absolutely have to (and more strict guidelines on how carry on with the day will follow), but not before I review Jonty and Jimfinn's reasons for voting me.

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

13.Each game ‘day’ will not have a deadline unless activity decreases.

How can scum delay town when there is no established deadline? If discussion is being generated and that very discussion causes activity, thus preventing a deadline to be established, how can you possibly accuse me of "scum trying to delay us"?

Also, how did I sell it as "set in stone"? Did you also miss the part of my post where I mentioned I'd be looking for better leads before eventually defaulting to that case?

I also fail to find the "poor logic" in my post, but that's kind of expected since people commonly mistake logic with other things.

To answer your question, your answers did clarify that there was something really off with your vote. FOS Jonty.

After I rebutted Jonty's reasonings, he misteriously disappeared from the game. When he came back, he inexplicably forgot to reply to my post. I still want Jonty to defend his reason or at least to come up with another.

In response to my reading 44 pages in two days, I had been reading some but wanted to reread everything so I could get some notes on gameplay so far and adequately respond to the cases in play.

When making my final post, I looked back at the notes I had made, and I saw Rodion: is betiko skimming? written a couple times, and it just struck me funny - as far as the quotes thing goes, here are the notes I made on that section of the game

Strike: edits quotes, called out on it
Shield: shade of blue crap is WIFOM
Rodion: upset about changes in quotes not being bolded

When reading the game notes, i read that Rodion had been the one to complain, but after he reposted the quotes, I see that what I actually meant by that note was that strike was called out by the others and then rodion said things about it.

Either way, I still feel the case on betiko is stronger, and his recent replies don't help his cause much.

Jim, your suspicions on me contained a bunch of false evidence. You even admitted to it. If you're voting me now, make sure you state the actual reasons, since you can't summon fake evidence like you did earlier.

I also believe Shield still has his vote on me because I spoke in french.

Safari, I'd like Shield prodded. Leitz and Swifte too, please.

[Rodion]

From my guide.

A forced claim is a claim that happens when its subject is in real danger of getting lynched. Claiming for someone that is L-1 or L-2 is their last shot at surviving. If the deadline is far away, you should be claiming when you get to L-2 or L-1. If the deadline is imminent, you might feel forced to claim earlier, because the approach of a deadline can speed things up considerably and you might be lynched before you realize just because deadline was there and "something had to be done".

This is probably not the first time I explain it, butI like L-2 as the stopping point because of possible roles that can hammer without suffering consequences, such as a lyncher (he can hammer and win instantly) or a mafia doublevoter (he can hammer with a "???" vote and he will not be held accountable). There are also people that don't know what they are doing and hammer by accident.

I don't find Vigilante to be an "important" town role.

Strike, you need to make up your mind on whether you're petitioning for a no-lynch or going to force my claim. You can obviously do whatever you want, but I want it written for the record.

[strike wolf]

Someone who requires one less vote to hammer

That one I did not know. I'm now waiting to see what Rodion has to say regarding his role and hope that town is not going to be in even more trouble after it all. We're exposed enough as it is now I think.

Okay if you and Strike both agree, then I am willing to reconsider. But I honestly believe we will benefit the most from Rodion claiming.

I agree with MoB about the claim.

I also think that L-1 isn't a big deal. If someone is stupid and quick hammers, then it leads to them getting investigated and gives us a lead anyway. Quick hammering is a bad move for scum because it trades scum for town. That's a win for the town. So, in my mind, L-1 is only a good thing for the town.

i think that if he claims a real good power role such as a vigilante or a bus driver its worth a trade town for standard scum for the mafia. and if he is a hated townie, he is down and we are one townie left; so i don't agree at all with your reasoning!! I even think it is scummy to encourage a l-1 in spite of the exposed reasons by mob.
I have already voted for you on day 1, and I think that this is something that makes me have new suspicions on you (i didn't buy rodion's case on you on day 2) but now i think you've crossed a line.

vote chapcrap

I find this ironic considering earlier you were criticizing Mob for not putting Rodion at L-1. Maybe not contradictory since your circumstances have changed somewhat but what I don't see is you having any problems with L-2 over L-1 before you addressed Mob. I think if anyone is getting worried about implications it is you right now.

As far as No Lynch. Other than thinking I had unvoted in that post, I view this as a high risk high reward situation. My instincts are still telling me to lynch Rodion, logic is telling me that it's a dangerous situation considering the cop and the doctor are out in the open. At the same time, it's going to come up sooner or later. There's too many people caught up in it (chap, betiko, jonty, me, arguably shield and you could make a case for Epitaph as well) at this point for it not to be addressed. I'm not convinced but if it doesn't happen today it's going to happen early tomorrow anyways.

@Rodion: well considering I've been fast posted twice by you...

[jimfinn]

I can't help but see how much general mafia (though not specific to this game) Rodion has done. This includes the guide for how to play town, guiding the night actions, etc. This seems like a classic way a player could gain trust and not have to worry about lying.

This piece from my original case still remains, Rodion.

[jonty125]

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

You see, Chap, this is why you ask people to motivate their votes. You can get gems like this. /\

13.Each game ‘day’ will not have a deadline unless activity decreases.

How can scum delay town when there is no established deadline? If discussion is being generated and that very discussion causes activity, thus preventing a deadline to be established, how can you possibly accuse me of "scum trying to delay us"?

Also, how did I sell it as "set in stone"? Did you also miss the part of my post where I mentioned I'd be looking for better leads before eventually defaulting to that case?

I also fail to find the "poor logic" in my post, but that's kind of expected since people commonly mistake logic with other things.

To answer your question, your answers did clarify that there was something really off with your vote. FOS Jonty.

You rebuted my case at November 29th, 2011, 4:53 pm

My next post is December 3rd, 2011, 6:58 am

After I rebutted Jonty's reasonings, he misteriously disappeared from the game

5 days generally isn't a lot and my activity on CC was a bit ragged due to a stomach virus which meant I couldn't walk never mind sit up.

he inexplicably forgot to reply to my post

I believe that says it all

So my reason for voting you. I was the first on the case so that instantly eliminates bandwaggoning.

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

a) Is just plain stupid
b) Please read the above

Then my mind got blown by Chap's comment

This was chaps comment in reply to saf

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

This is quite clearly a joke and then you try and turn into a case

seems like the comment that a disappointed mafia player that just had his game unfairly spoiled would make.

Please explain how chaps comment is worthy to make a case from

And then try and create a case on strike because of the 'indisputable truth' that at least one of you is scum. You try and make him look like mafia by this

Strike playing as mafia would not bring this up if it were truth, since he would not want to die

According to the laws of probability it is more likely you are both town maybe that's why he didn't bring it up

I never said it was "set in stone" you should never have to revert to your 'case'

[Rodion]

I could understand that as valid, Jimfinn, if I had not contributed to the game at all other than the general mafia stuff. It's not like I'm hiding inactivity with general mafia posts and I find it weird that this difference was not perceived by you.

Strike, either you stick with the vote and you run the risk of taking the flak for leading 2 bad wagons (BG and mine) or you unvote. You can't keep your vote and avoid the inevitable flak by saying something like "in all fairness, I did suggest us to move on without a claim". Please, man up and give us all a straightforward answer on whether you want the claim or not.

[jonty125]

Jonty, I'd like some insight on the thought process you used to vote me.

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

You see, Chap, this is why you ask people to motivate their votes. You can get gems like this. /\

13.Each game ‘day’ will not have a deadline unless activity decreases.

How can scum delay town when there is no established deadline? If discussion is being generated and that very discussion causes activity, thus preventing a deadline to be established, how can you possibly accuse me of "scum trying to delay us"?

Also, how did I sell it as "set in stone"? Did you also miss the part of my post where I mentioned I'd be looking for better leads before eventually defaulting to that case?

I also fail to find the "poor logic" in my post, but that's kind of expected since people commonly mistake logic with other things.

To answer your question, your answers did clarify that there was something really off with your vote. FOS Jonty.

You rebuted my case at November 29th, 2011, 4:53 pm

My next post is December 3rd, 2011, 6:58 am

After I rebutted Jonty's reasonings, he misteriously disappeared from the game

5 days generally isn't a lot and my activity on CC was a bit ragged due to a stomach virus which meant I couldn't walk never mind sit up.

he inexplicably forgot to reply to my post

I believe that says it all

So my reason for voting you. I was the first on the case so that instantly eliminates bandwaggoning.

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

a) Is just plain stupid
b) Please read the above

Then my mind got blown by Chap's comment

This was chaps comment in reply to saf

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

This is quite clearly a joke and then you try and turn into a case

seems like the comment that a disappointed mafia player that just had his game unfairly spoiled would make.

Please explain how chaps comment is worthy to make a case from

And then try and create a case on strike because of the 'indisputable truth' that at least one of you is scum. You try and make him look like mafia by this

Strike playing as mafia would not bring this up if it were truth, since he would not want to die

According to the laws of probability it is more likely you are both town maybe that's why he didn't bring it up

I never said it was "set in stone", I said you tried to sell it as a geniune case when it wasn't you should never have to revert to your 'case'

EBWOP "set in stone" section I pressed submit not preview

[strike wolf]

If I was going to unvote from that post I would have. I'm pretty sure I ended it by saying that this case needs to progress as it's not going away anyways.

[Swifte]

I've been reading along but haven't had a enough time to bring it all together and make up my mind on a case. I'll do my best to post how I see things later this evening.

[Rodion]

Jonty, being sick is understadable, but your Dec 3rd post had to adress mine, didn't it? The way it happened, it seems like you got to "sneak" a poorly motivated vote and you wouldn't have ever adressed anything if I had not called you out today.

So, did you discard your former reason and just came up with a new one or is this the original reasoning? I don't see your latest post saying anything about me trying to delay town. Ironically, if Jim is a cop and you think I'm mafia, why would I delay his wagon?

I never said it was "set in stone", I said you tried to sell it as a geniune case when it wasn't you should never have to revert to your 'case'

EBWOP "set in stone" section I pressed submit not preview

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

Oh, you didn't?

Strike, it felt like you wouldn't unvote, but your post was still too "on the fence". Your latest one is much better and clearer. Thank you.

[strike wolf]

Jonty, being sick is understadable, but your Dec 3rd post had to adress mine, didn't it? The way it happened, it seems like you got to "sneak" a poorly motivated vote and you wouldn't have ever adressed anything if I had not called you out today.

So, did you discard your former reason and just came up with a new one or is this the original reasoning? I don't see your latest post saying anything about me trying to delay town. Ironically, if Jim is a cop and you think I'm mafia, why would I delay his wagon?

I never said it was "set in stone", I said you tried to sell it as a geniune case when it wasn't you should never have to revert to your 'case'

EBWOP "set in stone" section I pressed submit not preview

You made a shocking case against strike I thought to myself - what the hell is he doing? After many moments thought I came up with your scum trying to delay us (rubbish, I know). So I voted you for your poor logic in your case against strike and selling it as "set in stone" ← Does this clarify

Oh, you didn't?

Strike, it felt like you wouldn't unvote, but your post was still too "on the fence". Your latest one is much better and clearer. Thank you.

I don't think there's really a problem with being a little bit "on the fence" if it's true. I'm not always completely confident in my decisions and I don't have a problem showing that.