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in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.spiesr wrote:
Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
Why is this risk unacceptable only on D1. You use a fact that's always true (ie there's a risk of mislynching a power role) to prove that we should not lynch only in 1 specific scenario. That makes no sense unless you explain why it only applies on D1.TheGeneral2112 wrote: Alrighty, what have we here? The point of the game is to create discussion? *Buzzer* WRONG! The point of the game is to lynch scum. Unless you are scum, in which case the point is to act town. Is a ML worth some discussion? Well that depends on the ML. What happens when we hit a power role? Like a doctor or a tracker? What happens if we kill our vig? Or maybe we accidentally kill another PR. Here is the point, hitting a PR with a RL is stupid.
Very townie attitude there. First you claim that the game is not about having fun or generating discussion, but about "lynching scum". Then you say "I don't care what you guys do, lynch me, you'll see how wrong you were", which is definitely a attitude you shouldn't be having if you we're really after the win.TheGeneral2112 wrote: Rebuke me all you want. I already said IDGAF. Lynch me if you choose, it will only prove me point.
First of all this whole approach is deeply flawed. Extrapolating this logic leads to the conclusion that we should sit idly till LILO as to maximize our odds of random lynching scum. If you don't agree with the extrapolation you have to explain WHY it isn't valid rather than just stating "no, I'm only referring to D1"TheGeneral2112 wrote: Actual point: Assuming a rather balanced setup, I could see 17 town/6 mafia/2 3rd party. Chances of lynching town today on RL are 68% Chances of hitting scum are 24%. Our chances of lynching scum tomorrow?
Assuming a no lynch today, mafia kills 1 townie overnight & Townie accidentally kills 1 townie overnight & 3rd party recruits 1 townie? 63% chance of random lynching town, 27% random lynching mafia.
We have just decreased our chance of killing a townie by 5% and increased our chance of killing mafia by 3%. I don't care what is "customary" here, you really can't argue with the math. I don't support a random lynch and I won't support a random lynch.
I agree with saf. In most games I've played on day 1 we pressure a few people, get a few claims and then go to night. The info gathered helps a lot in the later days. If we went straight to night 1 then we'd lose the claims, discussion, and patterns. And if we find some scum from the pressure then great! We have a lynch.safariguy5 wrote:I really don't feel like piling on here, but to wait until a cop gets a guilty result doesn't back up the numbers.
Odds are that cops don't get guilty results for several nights. If we wait until the cop gets a guilty result, that may only come when mafia have already gained majority and won. And if the cop gets NKed, that plan is kaput. Not to mention relying on the cop will never catch the godfather because the godfather shows up as innocent under investigation.
I seriously do not see why we want to NL straight away on day 1. If we get some pressures, a couple of claims, and good discussion, then I will consider a no lynch, but to do it blind is never a good strategy to me.
Yes, I remember reading that in the rules, but I also remember Mr. Squirrel saying that the adventurers would become more powerful over time as they defeated monsters and gained loot. So they may not have very many abilities now, but they could very soon.zimmah wrote:in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.spiesr wrote:
Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
I think you may onto something.zimmah wrote:in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.spiesr wrote:
Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
except for the fact RL are never truly Random, they're guesses based on the best lead, no matter how bad a lead.Haggis_McMutton wrote:Why is this risk unacceptable only on D1. You use a fact that's always true (ie there's a risk of mislynching a power role) to prove that we should not lynch only in 1 specific scenario. That makes no sense unless you explain why it only applies on D1.TheGeneral2112 wrote: Alrighty, what have we here? The point of the game is to create discussion? *Buzzer* WRONG! The point of the game is to lynch scum. Unless you are scum, in which case the point is to act town. Is a ML worth some discussion? Well that depends on the ML. What happens when we hit a power role? Like a doctor or a tracker? What happens if we kill our vig? Or maybe we accidentally kill another PR. Here is the point, hitting a PR with a RL is stupid.
Very townie attitude there. First you claim that the game is not about having fun or generating discussion, but about "lynching scum". Then you say "I don't care what you guys do, lynch me, you'll see how wrong you were", which is definitely a attitude you shouldn't be having if you we're really after the win.TheGeneral2112 wrote: Rebuke me all you want. I already said IDGAF. Lynch me if you choose, it will only prove me point.
So you're not playing this game either to have fun or to win. Why the hell are you playing?
First of all this whole approach is deeply flawed. Extrapolating this logic leads to the conclusion that we should sit idly till LILO as to maximize our odds of random lynching scum. If you don't agree with the extrapolation you have to explain WHY it isn't valid rather than just stating "no, I'm only referring to D1"TheGeneral2112 wrote: Actual point: Assuming a rather balanced setup, I could see 17 town/6 mafia/2 3rd party. Chances of lynching town today on RL are 68% Chances of hitting scum are 24%. Our chances of lynching scum tomorrow?
Assuming a no lynch today, mafia kills 1 townie overnight & Townie accidentally kills 1 townie overnight & 3rd party recruits 1 townie? 63% chance of random lynching town, 27% random lynching mafia.
We have just decreased our chance of killing a townie by 5% and increased our chance of killing mafia by 3%. I don't care what is "customary" here, you really can't argue with the math. I don't support a random lynch and I won't support a random lynch.
Either way, let's do your math, only with the real numbers this time
4 scum, 25 players => scum:non-scum ration is 4:21
chances of random lynching scum is 4/25 = 16%.
So, if we NL, ratio stays 4:21
if we lynch, expected new ration is: 3.84 : 20.16
N1, let's assume 2 townies die.
NL D1 => 4 : 19 => odds of RL scum are 4/23 = 17.39%
RL D1 => 3.84 : 18.16 => odds of RL scum 3.84/22 = 17.45%
N1, let's assume 1 townie dies.
NL D1 => 4 : 20 => odds of RL scum are 4/24 = 16.66%
RL D1 => 3.84 : 19.16 => odds of RL scum 3.84/23 = 16.69%
The information gained from at least discussing stuff before jumping to a no lynch is way more significant that 0.1% odds in the potential random lynch D2.
I really am not sure what to make of your actions in this game so far. I don't understand why you'd play like this regardless of whether you are scum/town, also not sure if it's a good thing that you've managed to monopolize the discussion so early in the game.
For now, I'm just gonna say I want to hear some more from you.
/agreezimmah wrote: except for the fact RL are never truly Random, they're guesses based on the best lead, no matter how bad a lead.
safari can you please show where Mr. Squirrel said that because what I saw had thissafariguy5 wrote:Yes, I remember reading that in the rules, but I also remember Mr. Squirrel saying that the adventurers would become more powerful over time as they defeated monsters and gained loot. So they may not have very many abilities now, but they could very soon.zimmah wrote:in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.spiesr wrote:
Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
Mr. Squirrel wrote:The Story:
A small party of traveling adventurers enter a small inn in order to escape the pouring rains outside. This small town, though it looks to be innocent and quaint, actually holds a terribly dark secret. Situated on a small plateau overlooking a deep forest, dark wizards have been using it for years as a refuge from the outside world. Now, this small group of adventurers have accidentally stumbled upon it and must find some way to make the region right before they can continue on. Will our protagonists prevail? Or will the dark forests and deep caves of the mountain swallow up the heroes, leaving the dark secrets intact?
The Game:
In this game, the 'scum' faction will be played by our adventuring heroes as they attempt to cut their way through the hordes of evil foes seeking to protect the secrets of the town. Before the game begins, all mafia players will be allowed to choose which character they want to play as from a list of 16 different options. They will also decide on the name of their adventuring party (so I won't have to keep calling this "Mr. Squirrel's Fantasy Mafia"). The mafia faction will have a huge array of skills and powers at their disposal to vanquish the evil that resides in the mountain village.
Each 'Day' phase will feature the heroes going into battle against the forces of evil. Rather than 'vote'ing on who to lynch, each player will instead choose to attack whichever player they want to see die. When one player has been overwhelmed by the wave of attackers, he will fall and the battle will end. (Don't worry, this will all make a lot more sense when the story begins.)
The 'town' faction will be played by the forces of evil seeking to destroy our heroes. They will be led by a single dark figure, who, should he die, will almost assuredly lead to the defeat of the town at large. The town faction, on the whole, will not have the same huge repertoire of skills that the scum do and must rely on their superior numbers and hunting abilities to track down the heroes. There will be no vanilla townies, but not all players will have night actions.
Nowhere do I see anything about "Mr. Squirrel saying that the adventurers would become more powerful over time as they defeated monsters and gained loot.".Mr. Squirrel wrote:Alright. With most players confirmed, let's get this goin'.
Our Heroes:
The SquirrelMasters are an adventuring party of four members.
Their leader is a young but charismatic priest who is gifted with great divine powers and always is willing to help those in need.
At his side is a loyal and strong Paladin of an ancient and holy order. He has pledged his life and shield to the priest and to the protection of innocent people everywhere. In battle, the Paladin is a strong tower, steadfast and resolute against the forces of evil.
Serving as the brains for the party is their wizard. This man grew up in the finest universities and knows more of the world then most men thrice his age. Knowledgeable in history, religion, politics, military tactics, medicine, and magic, this man is the one the party turns to when hard decisions need to be made.
And finally we come to the Barbarian. He isn't the smartest or the most charming individual, but his battlefield ferocity is second to none. More comfortable in dark woods than castles, he is often left behind when the party needs to visit a noble or official. While he isn't always an asset to the team, the party could not have survived some situations without his keen knowledge of the wild.
The Story Begins:
As the rain fell in sheets upon the backs of the four adventurers, they scrambled into a small two-story inn for the night. Immediately upon entering, they felt unwelcome. The two orcs sitting in the corner eyed them menacingly and the innkeeper behind the bar seemed pale to the point of unhealthy. Nonetheless, with the only other option being to go back out into the rain, the party sat down at one of the small wooden tables while the priest went to speak with the innkeeper.
"I can tell you folks aren't from around here," the pale innkeeper said. "We don't get too many visitors up here in the mountains."
"My apologies," the Priest replied. "We did not plan on stopping, but the rains have made the mountain trails dangerous and we felt it prudent to seek out shelter. Do you have some warm food and rooms we can rent?"
"I might, for the right coin. Why don't you go sit down with your friends. I'll have my wife bring you something."
"Bless your heart, sir. Thank you." And with that the Priest returned to his table.
The night was filled with jokes and drinking as the party warmed up near the fire. The Barbarian, quite drunk on ale, began boisterously swinging his arms and legs around in what he claimed was a tribal ritual dance. While the other three laughed and cheered him on, he stumbled through a few drifferent motions before crashing into a table and sending plates, drinks, and candles flying all over the two orcs who had been sitting in the corner up until this point. The two orcs, who looked quite intoxicated themselves, were furious and immediately lunged at the barbarian. Someone outside the inn could be heard yelling "Fight!" and soon the entire inn was filled with bodies and chaos. The party, seeing no other choice, decided to fight their way out.
MoB Deadly wrote:OH you are agreeing thats not there. my fault!
Turns to Safari
maybe it was in one of the older posts, as i don't remember exactly if that particular thing safari said was in one of the original mafia descriptions or not.Last edited by Mr. Squirrel on Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 pm, edited 23 times in total.
We don't take your currency in these here parts.zimmah wrote:MoB Deadly wrote:OH you are agreeing thats not there. my fault!
Turns to Safarimaybe it was in one of the older posts, as i don't remember exactly if that particular thing safari said was in one of the original mafia descriptions or not.Last edited by Mr. Squirrel on Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 pm, edited 23 times in total.
it may be a scumtell, but i'm not so certain (also i'm not certain of the one i thought to see in spiesr, i just thought it would be a possibility and certainly made me more careful of spiesr, not saying he's 100% definite scum). for the same reason we should be careful about safari as well, it may be a slipup, it may just be he remembered an older post that may or may not have existed. that being said, i would not mind putting a little pressure on either of them.
just throwing in my 2 copper pieces.
How bout Septims or Rupees?DoomYoshi wrote:
We don't take your currency in these here parts.
yeah... maybe a slip up, maybe not... I'm not sure...zimmah wrote:MoB Deadly wrote:OH you are agreeing thats not there. my fault!
Turns to Safarimaybe it was in one of the older posts, as i don't remember exactly if that particular thing safari said was in one of the original mafia descriptions or not.Last edited by Mr. Squirrel on Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 pm, edited 23 times in total.
it may be a scumtell, but i'm not so certain (also i'm not certain of the one i thought to see in spiesr, i just thought it would be a possibility and certainly made me more careful of spiesr, not saying he's 100% definite scum). for the same reason we should be careful about safari as well, it may be a slipup, it may just be he remembered an older post that may or may not have existed. that being said, i would not mind putting a little pressure on either of them.
just throwing in my 2 copper pieces.
have to agree with zimmah therezimmah wrote:in my ears that sounds like you have seen the list of possible player roles, which would mean you'd be one of the 4, because if i remember correctly those 4 were allowed to pick their role from a list.spiesr wrote:
Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
it's likely that list of players would have had at least a general description about the possibilities of that role, altho maybe not fully detailed. I assume at the very least they would have a description like the one squirrel showed us for those 4 we know to be in the game, except for all 16 available, but i would not be surprised if they would also get a small hint or detailed description about the 'skills' they could have. I'm also not sure if they all got the full list, or they picked in order (like someone picked, and the next one got to choose from the remaining 15) or if they even were allowed to discuss what they'd pick to form a more versatile party. Seeing as how the party looks versatile to me, i actually assume they were allowed to discuss, however it would also be possible noone actually got a full list, and they were allowed to pick a role from a smaller set of options so that whatever each individual would pick, the party would be balanced, more or less. Seeing as how Squirrel is often detailed and trying to reveal as few information as possible, i would not be surpised if that was the case. (just to clarify, i am just reasoning here, assuming things i don't know, based on facts we all know, i might be way off)In this game, the 'scum' faction will be played by our adventuring heroes as they attempt to cut their way through the hordes of evil foes seeking to protect the secrets of the town. Before the game begins, all mafia players will be allowed to choose which character they want to play as from a list of 16 different options. They will also decide on the name of their adventuring party (so I won't have to keep calling this "Mr. Squirrel's Fantasy Mafia" ). The mafia faction will have a huge array of skills and powers at their disposal to vanquish the evil that resides in the mountain village.
note the word 'had' and the structure of the sentence. that made me believe he knows something more then we do.Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
yes, copper is not worth much, but it should be enough to buy a drink.I believe we have found scum unattack Attack speiserspeiser wrote:Anyhow I would hazard a guess that most of the possible player character roles had more than one trait associated with them.
I was going to say "how would he know about the VIP unless he was town?" but then I realized that information could just as easily be given to the scum. So my defense of spiesr sucks. You can vote him if you want.spiesr wrote:This game isn't actually "backwards". With the exception of the town having a VIP which must be protected it is mostly the same as other games. The D&D alignments are different, but the mafia alignments are the same. In other games it is Evil scum vs Good and Neutral town. Here it is Lawful(?) Good scum vs Evil and whatnot town. The scum are still scum, and if you are one of them you need to be lynched.Victor Sullivan wrote:I am scum, General. Don't you understand the backwardness of this game? Or perhaps you do, and you are an adventurer...TheGeneral2112 wrote:Sighs... I'm getting a weird vibe from you in this game too. Be glad your possible scummy ass is still alive in this one.
This is public information as well.Mr. Squirrel wrote: The 'town' faction will be played by the forces of evil seeking to destroy our heroes. They will be led by a single dark figure, who, should he die, will almost assuredly lead to the defeat of the town at large.
wait what?DoomYoshi wrote:You should not vote spiesr. He knows a lot about the setup in general. I am pretty sure he is town.
i think that's what you mean by VIP. Altho i'm not convinced the entire town instantly dies if the VIP dies.Mr. Squirrel wrote:The 'town' faction will be played by the forces of evil seeking to destroy our heroes. They will be led by a single dark figure, who, should he die, will almost assuredly lead to the defeat of the town at large.
I follow you zimmah. I think Safari looks scummier than spiesr at the moment though. The "Get better as the game goes along, by getting loot from kills" seems VERY much like a possible think Squirrel would do and inside information the mafia would know"zimmah wrote:
does anyone agree with my tought patterns or am i wrong?
