The SquirrelMasters' Quest (25/25) Night 1~A quick getaway

[zimmah]

We are not punishing him for doing what he thought was best for town. We are punishing him for not properly thinking. We are punishing him for deciding that he wants to lose the game. If you can prove that he considers his strategy wrong, then you will be correct. However, his recent posts show no evidence of that. As of yet, he still hasn't proved WHY or HOW his strategy will work. All he has proven is that he can rave like a lunatic.

Let me rephrase, this strategy WOULD HAVE worked, before I had to out. Now it is basically suicide.

quoted, skimming doom?

[TheGeneral2112]

General, as a fellow race-less let's have a drink tonight, drink's on me.

This.

Also, I'm not backing down off of my vote until several people can confirm they received a specific race. No need to out what type of monster you are, but any more than 3 people who post saying they received a specific race will clear him IMO.

@Saf, Doom, My strategy would have worked. Why? Because we wouldn't have needed to talk about it! At Epic Mafia, players are so pro that shit just happens without discussion. In fact, EM players are so pro, we have a saying "Dat Doc". It is said after the doc saves someone and mafia has no nightkill. It happens often.

Doom, you claim that I want to lose the game?! STFU you little punk. You don't have to agree with my strategy, you can think it sucks balls, but that doesn't mean my personal win objective is to lose.

Saf, you do understand that there are only 4 mafia to kill before we win, right? If we traded 3 town roles for every 1 mafia, it would be autowin.

Fastposted x2, he isn't skimming, he just doesn't like me.

@Doom again, do you really think that in a 25 player game we wouldn't have a role that can watch people to see who visits them in the night?

[safariguy5]

General, as a fellow race-less let's have a drink tonight, drink's on me.

This.

Also, I'm not backing down off of my vote until several people can confirm they received a specific race. No need to out what type of monster you are, but any more than 3 people who post saying they received a specific race will clear him IMO.

@Saf, Doom, My strategy would have worked. Why? Because we wouldn't have needed to talk about it! At Epic Mafia, players are so pro that shit just happens without discussion. In fact, EM players are so pro, we have a saying "Dat Doc". It is said after the doc saves someone and mafia has no nightkill. It happens often.

Doom, you claim that I want to lose the game?! STFU you little punk. You don't have to agree with my strategy, you can think it sucks balls, but that doesn't mean my personal win objective is to lose.

Saf, you do understand that there are only 4 mafia to kill before we win, right? If we traded 3 town roles for every 1 mafia, it would be autowin.

Fastposted x2, he isn't skimming, he just doesn't like me.

@Doom again, do you really think that in a 25 player game we wouldn't have a role that can watch people to see who visits them in the night?

That's assuming mafia are dumb enough to be obvious and take the WIFOM bait. I'm pretty sure the odds of the cop getting a guilty result are low enough that we're going to be no lynching multiple days before he gets something. Meanwhile, townies are dying to the left and right, and we just sit here and twiddle our thumbs while we wait for results that may or may not come.

Read what I said again about three town roles. I said three POWER town roles. We trade the doc, the watcher and the cop eventually to get the roleblocker. Then what? We have no more power roles to find mafia and there's three mafia members left.

[MoB Deadly]

Saf, you do understand that there are only 4 mafia to kill before we win, right? If we traded 3 town roles for every 1 mafia, it would be autowin.

Fastposted x2, he isn't skimming, he just doesn't like me.

@Doom again, do you really think that in a 25 player game we wouldn't have a role that can watch people to see who visits them in the night?

Our sheer numbers is kind of what worries me. They are either going to have uber god powers, or we are going to be nerfed.

fastposted

[Mr. Squirrel]

Current Battlefield Rundown:

Rodion (1) - Haggis_Mcmutton
drunkmonkey (1) - sensfan,
Victor (3) - PCM, edocsil, spiesr
Trinicardinal (1) - /,
doomyoshi (1) - soundman
spiesr (2) - jonty, trinicardinal
thegeneral (6) - safariguy, doomyoshi, victor sullivan, iliad, zimmah, drake
safariguy (1) - thegeneral

It takes 13 to kill.
Deadline Wednesday

As for the votes, If you guys want to start using retreat as an unvote, that works for me.

[TheGeneral2112]

Thanks for the VC. Interesting to see that saf, doom, VS, iliad, zimmah and drake are still on the town doctor. Makes a lot of sense...

[zimmah]

retreat

[zimmah]

retreat

i didn't retreat sooner because i didn't want to surrender, and even tho i believed you much earlier then this, i had no other person to attack, so i just left it there because i knew there wouldn't be 13 people to attack you anyway.

[safariguy5]

Thanks for the VC. Interesting to see that saf, doom, VS, iliad, zimmah and drake are still on the town doctor. Makes a lot of sense...

A town doc who apparently doesn't have any roleflavor associated with his role. And neither does zimmah apparently.

If this was an unthemed game, I could accept that we have no roleflavor, but it makes no sense for some of us to have roleflavor (I know at least one other person has roleflavor) and others to not.

[zimmah]

Thanks for the VC. Interesting to see that saf, doom, VS, iliad, zimmah and drake are still on the town doctor. Makes a lot of sense...

A town doc who apparently doesn't have any roleflavor associated with his role. And neither does zimmah apparently.

If this was an unthemed game, I could accept that we have no roleflavor, but it makes no sense for some of us to have roleflavor (I know at least one other person has roleflavor) and others to not.

i never said i had no roleflavor, you never asked for that, i just said that my roleflavor does not include or even remotely points at any specific race. and besides, i don't see why i even should state my role and/or flavor, i allready dropped more hints then anyone else.

[TheGeneral2112]

Thanks for the VC. Interesting to see that saf, doom, VS, iliad, zimmah and drake are still on the town doctor. Makes a lot of sense...

A town doc who apparently doesn't have any roleflavor associated with his role. And neither does zimmah apparently.

If this was an unthemed game, I could accept that we have no roleflavor, but it makes no sense for some of us to have roleflavor (I know at least one other person has roleflavor) and others to not.

i never said i had no roleflavor, you never asked for that, i just said that my roleflavor does not include or even remotely points at any specific race. and besides, i don't see why i even should state my role and/or flavor, i allready dropped more hints then anyone else.

^^ Still waiting on more than 3 claims of role races.

[DoomYoshi]

We are not punishing him for doing what he thought was best for town. We are punishing him for not properly thinking. We are punishing him for deciding that he wants to lose the game. If you can prove that he considers his strategy wrong, then you will be correct. However, his recent posts show no evidence of that. As of yet, he still hasn't proved WHY or HOW his strategy will work. All he has proven is that he can rave like a lunatic.

Let me rephrase, this strategy WOULD HAVE worked, before I had to out. Now it is basically suicide.

quoted, skimming doom?

How is that skimming? He still thinks his strategy would have worked.

[DoomYoshi]

General, the fact that you spent so long advocating for a no lynch proves that you wanted to lose.

Rather than rationally discuss the case, you started insulting people and refusing to address points.

I am a stats major. Numbers are what I do. Day 1 has no use for numbers. There could be a cult, or mafia could have recruiters. As of right now, there is no way we can assume follow the cop will be a working strategy. Why can't I assume there is no watcher in a game this size?

[DoomYoshi]

To be more specific. Zelda mafia had 21 players, as well as more than 4 items. In all those players and items (more than 25!) there was not 1 watcher. There is no reason to assume watcher if you base it on Squirrel's last game.

Also, in Pokemon, similar size, there was no watcher AND no tracker.

General, until you can admit that you want to win - until you can swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong - then I have to assume (correctly) that you want to lose.

[spiesr]

i don't think so. i believe the rules state that whenever the VIP dies, town is VERY LIKELY to lose, but not necessarily instantly loses.
so unless you got some extra information, the rules do not state game insta-finished whenever vip dies.

In the proposal thread the Wizard was described this, so I have been thinking about like an instant win condition.

The town:
I will try my hardest not to include vanilla townies, but there might be some. Town will have mostly generic roles. There will be one super powerful townie (the arch-enemy) who will cause the town to lose instantly if he should die. He will also have a handful of townies who know who he is and can protect him (to ensure that there isn't a N1 scum victory).

Looking over the first post again, I see that in the actually game the line has been changed to "will almost assuredly lead to the defeat of the town." I suppose this could mean the role's importance has been nerfed to only being "town loses powers in mass" or "mafia gets super powers." At this point I don't think we can rule out it being an instant victory, but I am not 100% sure of it anymore.

Still waiting on more than 3 claims of role races.

My question here is why exactly have you decided to assume safariguy is scum until three people provide confirmation that their role flavor mentions their race? Safariguy might have been incorrect about all role pms having information about the character's fantasy species, but would that really indicate he is scum? Or is this some sort of trap, where once three people chime in you will declare that they are his scum buddies?

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

So, I wonder if this would mean that you are one of the townies who knows the identity of the dark wizard. (Not that I want you to reveal it or anything.) Another question is what exactly are you. I can understand your role not mentioning you as a specific type of monster, but in that case it surely describes you as something. Like a shaman, or a mad scientist. (or appropriate fantasy equivalent) That raises the further question of if your role is named simply Doctor or something more like Profession.

that claim sounds legit. my role pm also speaks of an evil wizard.

Being that the entire game basically revolves around that character, I would say that nearly every role pm probably mentions it in some form.

As far as your questions with the cop, it is simple. Cop should out now. Then we can put a doc and a watcher on him. It doesn't matter if he is roleblocked, the watcher will see who roleblocks him. Then we lynch that person tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, cop continues to investigate and clear townies. Then he doesn't out his innos, because mid/late game, he will have a list of innos. By deduction, you will reach an autowin point at which you can lynch all non-confirmed players. Some of those will be townies, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter because you will have time to lynch every single non-confirmed before mafia win.

I supposed that could have worked in theory, provided that the mafia don't have any of the following: Hitman, Framer, Godfather, or Busdriver. Also, the cop kind of needs to be sane for it to work. Insane could possibly work if he figures it out soon enough. Although the player base on CC could never really be expected to set up a strategy like that. One problem with it in regards to this specific game; while we can trade most of our for for the scum without major issue, we can't let the VIP die. The time it takes for the cop to collect enough investigations to activate the endgame mode + the time it takes for the town to lynch off however many they need to get all the scum might be too long, since the mafia have another means of victory(?) than just outnumbering the town.

Let me rephrase, this strategy WOULD HAVE worked, before I had to out. Now it is basically suicide.

How do you propose that we move forward now?

So under your strategy, watcher would have to reveal himself and the Doctor after the cop is claimed in order to catch mafia.

The way I read it, the Doctor would not reveal himself, and the Watcher would only do so if the Cop get's roleblocked.

[DoomYoshi]

Anyways, I am only pushing for gen's lynch because he was lurking and voting no lynch. Now that he is participating in discussion and has an attack out there, I will retreat. I am going to start looking at other lurkers in the morning.

What I think happened here is what I like to call "homesickness". General is not used to the ways we play here, so rather than learn the new ways and try to adapt, he just insulted the way things work and became bitter. This happened to me when I moved from Venice, CA to godforsaken Canada. Would you believe they don't even have artichokes in the grocery stores here? In any case, while my heart is still in Venice, I have now adapted, and I trust general will too. Sorry for being so antagonistic towards you. However, we don't play follow the cop here, and we will never will.

[Victor Sullivan]

As for the votes, If you guys want to start using retreat as an unvote, that works for me.

Thanks for the VC. Interesting to see that saf, doom, VS, iliad, zimmah and drake are still on the town doctor. Makes a lot of sense...

Yup!

My role does not mention a race as well, General, though it does provide me my class (i.e. paladin, warrior, wizard, etc.). You still have yet to name claim. Your role PM couldn't have been that vague.

-Sully

[spiesr]

My role does not mention a race as well, General, though it does provide me my class (i.e. paladin, warrior, wizard, etc.). You still have yet to name claim. Your role PM couldn't have been that vague.

Umm, are you trying to drop as many hints that you are one of the PCs as you can? Are you a jester or something now, or just that absent minded?

[Victor Sullivan]

My role does not mention a race as well, General, though it does provide me my class (i.e. paladin, warrior, wizard, etc.). You still have yet to name claim. Your role PM couldn't have been that vague.

Umm, are you trying to drop as many hints that you are one of the PCs as you can? Are you a jester or something now, or just that absent minded?

Erm... What?

-Sully

[spiesr]

Just what sort of role do you have where you are a PC class?

[TheGeneral2112]

General, the fact that you spent so long advocating for a no lynch proves that you wanted to lose.

This isn't true.

Rather than rationally discuss the case, you started insulting people and refusing to address points.

Against not true. I did rationally discuss the case and address all points, as I continue to do just a few posts above your's.

I am a stats major. Numbers are what I do. Day 1 has no use for numbers. There could be a cult, or mafia could have recruiters. As of right now, there is no way we can assume follow the cop will be a working strategy. Why can't I assume there is no watcher in a game this size?

Day 1 has no use for numbers? Because you can only use numbers on days 2-10, right? And only if the price of tea in Texas on a Thursday ends in .02 cents?

General, until you can admit that you want to win

I think I just said this a page or so ago... Oh wait, I DID!

[ - ]until you can swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong - then I have to assume (correctly) that you want to lose.

This is funny too! Let me know if I am understanding you correctly. Unless I say, "I'm wrong, Doom, your strategy is better than mine," then I want to lose? The goddamn nerve...

Still waiting on more than 3 claims of role races.

My question here is why exactly have you decided to assume safariguy is scum until three people provide confirmation that their role flavor mentions their race? Safariguy might have been incorrect about all role pms having information about the character's fantasy species, but would that really indicate he is scum? Or is this some sort of trap, where once three people chime in you will declare that they are his scum buddies?

Now that you said it, scumbuddies won't come to the rescue, BUT the reason I say more than 3 is because even IF all 3 mafia say they are orc/wilderbeast/whatever, I want verification from town. Which is why I say more than three. That would clear him right there. So far three people, including myself, have admitted their role PM did NOT contain info about their race.

Also, while I am pointing this out again, I'm going to say that it is not mentioned what type of monster/being I am in my role PM. Only that I was hired by the evil wizard of the village to protect his minions.

So, I wonder if this would mean that you are one of the townies who knows the identity of the dark wizard. (Not that I want you to reveal it or anything.) Another question is what exactly are you. I can understand your role not mentioning you as a specific type of monster, but in that case it surely describes you as something. Like a shaman, or a mad scientist. (or appropriate fantasy equivalent) That raises the further question of if your role is named simply Doctor or something more like Profession.

I am not a townie that knows the VIP. IMO, it would be an easy win if the doc knew who to protect at night. Also, no, I don't have myself being described as anything. The PM is fairly short and to the point. My role is simply Village Doctor

As far as your questions with the cop, it is simple. Cop should out now. Then we can put a doc and a watcher on him. It doesn't matter if he is roleblocked, the watcher will see who roleblocks him. Then we lynch that person tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, cop continues to investigate and clear townies. Then he doesn't out his innos, because mid/late game, he will have a list of innos. By deduction, you will reach an autowin point at which you can lynch all non-confirmed players. Some of those will be townies, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter because you will have time to lynch every single non-confirmed before mafia win.

I supposed that could have worked in theory, provided that the mafia don't have any of the following: Hitman, Framer, Godfather, or Busdriver. Also, the cop kind of needs to be sane for it to work. Insane could possibly work if he figures it out soon enough. Although the player base on CC could never really be expected to set up a strategy like that. One problem with it in regards to this specific game; while we can trade most of our for for the scum without major issue, we can't let the VIP die. The time it takes for the cop to collect enough investigations to activate the endgame mode + the time it takes for the town to lynch off however many they need to get all the scum might be too long, since the mafia have another means of victory(?) than just outnumbering the town.

A hitman would be okay. I don't understand why this would prevent the above plan from working. As far as a framer, with this many players, the statistical likelyhood of the framer and cop choosing the same person is quite small and IMO the risk is worth the reward. The godfather would very likely be lynched toward endgame as that would require some good guesses. I believe the watcher would detect the busdriver, if not, that would pose an issue. In this particular game, the VIP factor is a little odd. Might throw a wrench in this plan, might not.

Let me rephrase, this strategy WOULD HAVE worked, before I had to out. Now it is basically suicide.

How do you propose that we move forward now?

TBH, not really sure. I will end up saving a random tonight and being dead by D2, but I will need to think about a better strategy to use now.

So under your strategy, watcher would have to reveal himself and the Doctor after the cop is claimed in order to catch mafia.

The way I read it, the Doctor would not reveal himself, and the Watcher would only do so if the Cop get's roleblocked.[/quote]

This. ^^

What I think happened here is what I like to call "homesickness". General is not used to the ways we play here, so rather than learn the new ways and try to adapt, he just insulted the way things work and became bitter. This happened to me when I moved from Venice, CA to godforsaken Canada. Would you believe they don't even have artichokes in the grocery stores here? In any case, while my heart is still in Venice, I have now adapted, and I trust general will too. Sorry for being so antagonistic towards you. However, we don't play follow the cop here, and we will never will.

1) Don't compare me to you.
2) Canada is godforsaken.
3) Sounds like you are too stubborn to admit another strategy may be viable.

My role does not mention a race as well, General, though it does provide me my class (i.e. paladin, warrior, wizard, etc.). You still have yet to name claim. Your role PM couldn't have been that vague.

-Sully

TBH, it is quite vague.

[Victor Sullivan]

Just what sort of role do you have where you are a PC class?

*shrugs* It's how my role is. I can't really say anything more without claiming.

-Sully

[TheGeneral2112]

Just what sort of role do you have where you are a PC class?

*shrugs* It's how my role is. I can't really say anything more without claiming.

-Sully

PC?

[Victor Sullivan]

Player Character?

-Sully

[spiesr]

Player Character?

Yes, that is what I meant by PC.