[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[Swifte]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

hey i see that this could ve happened last night with just 2 people agreeing; swifte voting and dazza hammering. a bit dangerous.
also we might need to give a chance to rodion for some last words before doing so??
anyone has an updated votecount?

This is exactly why I didn't vote, just noted my preferred hammerer out there until we're agreed who should do it... so no one jumps the gun on us.

[dazza2008]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

If I agree to a case I will jump on the bandwagon. So because I don't make massive posts I must be scum?

[Swifte]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

If I agree to a case I will jump on the bandwagon. So because I don't make massive posts I must be scum?

First of all, you volunteered to hammer, I was just putting forth my opinions on why you over chap. I'm not claiming to be certain either you or chap are scum, don't blow it out of proportion. I'm picking between the two of your because I agree with the thought that fewer new roles revealed today is a good thing.

Second, it's not the length in it of itself, but the fact that it shows that you've bandwagoned almost every case, including the 'Rodion-spoke-French' thing, which leads me to, as I said, just question your motivations. It comes across as following the group when it happens repeatedly, and sometimes it's a sign of scum willing to jump on any case, sometimes it's an innocent player, it's not proof in itself of anything, but whenever there's a pattern it's worth noting.

[dazza2008]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

If I agree to a case I will jump on the bandwagon. So because I don't make massive posts I must be scum?

First of all, you volunteered to hammer, I was just putting forth my opinions on why you over chap. I'm not claiming to be certain either you or chap are scum, don't blow it out of proportion. I'm picking between the two of your because I agree with the thought that fewer new roles revealed today is a good thing.

Second, it's not the length in it of itself, but the fact that it shows that you've bandwagoned almost every case, including the 'Rodion-spoke-French' thing, which leads me to, as I said, just question your motivations. It comes across as following the group when it happens repeatedly, and sometimes it's a sign of scum willing to jump on any case, sometimes it's an innocent player, it's not proof in itself of anything, but whenever there's a pattern it's worth noting.

OK.

[betiko]

if the choice comes down to dazza/chap, I might agree with dazza hammering, as I see him either VT either scummy. and chap I imagine him more with some strange neutral role with a mission..
And about SG7 I don't know, just don't have a good vibe. chap seems to say he is always like that, but it seems like I m all by myself there.

guys, time is running out; worse thing would be an unwanted lynch let's agree on a decision, just 3 days left!

[Swifte]

guys, time is running out; worse thing would be an unwanted lynch let's agree on a decision, just 3 days left!

activity tends to drop on the weekends, I expect it will pick up again tomorrow.

[Rodion]

guys, time is running out; worse thing would be an unwanted lynch let's agree on a decision, just 3 days left!

activity tends to drop on the weekends, I expect it will pick up again tomorrow.

Yes.

I particularly want a response from MOB regarding a FOS he casted on me waaaaay back in the day. Hope it comes on monday.

[trinicardinal]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

hey i see that this could ve happened last night with just 2 people agreeing; swifte voting and dazza hammering. a bit dangerous.
also we might need to give a chance to rodion for some last words before doing so??
anyone has an updated votecount?

This is exactly why I didn't vote, just noted my preferred hammerer out there until we're agreed who should do it... so no one jumps the gun on us.

And this is also why I have not brought Rodion to L-1. I don't want anyone jumping the gun... and just for the record for jim when doing his FOS count... Based on the last count that I saw chap seemed to be in the lead between him and dazza so FOS chap for hammer.

[Leitz]

Vote Count

Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

We're letting this drag! Rodion is two votes away, so we either let dazza or chap hammer, correct? I trust neither of them really..

[dazza2008]

Vote Count

Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

We're letting this drag! Rodion is two votes away, so we either let dazza or chap hammer, correct? I trust neither of them really..

So what do you suggest?

[Leitz]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

[betiko]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

interesting. what you are saying basically is that hammering is getting lynched?

[Rodion]

MOB, I have evidence that you were online yesterday (real time games), plus I see you posted in another game today.

How about you give more attention to the official game whose day is close to the deadline?

Thanks in advance!

[Leitz]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

interesting. what you are saying basically is that hammering is getting lynched?

No, I just meant that we must find somebody who we all (most of us) feel comfortable to hammer or find somebody we want lynched.

[MoB Deadly]

MOB, I have evidence that you were online yesterday (real time games), plus I see you posted in another game today.

How about you give more attention to the official game whose day is close to the deadline?

Thanks in advance!

Umm I am definitely here.. I just don't have much to add, I am pretty sure I have made my position on the case several times now. We are stuck because Swifte and Trini do not want to put you at L-1 in case of a careless hammer that shouldn't be cast. And the FOS system is only semi-working, not working as fast as we need though.

[Rodion]

So, you still feel like you did earlier in D2 regarding the FOS for directing power roles?

[Rodion]

With the deadline in 2 days, I won't wait any longer.

You are all invited to read some pages of Soundman's First Mafia. Here is a little breakdown of what is going on there:

1 - Sully gets BWed and claims Town Watcher.
2 - Isaiah counterclaims Town Watcher.
3 - People lynch Sully and he flips Mafia Godfather.
4 - Isaiah dies N1.
5 - MOB complains of a "fail doc".
6 - Teegee gets BWed and claims Town Doctor.
7 - Teegee is lynched (MOB was in the bandwagon) and flips Town Doctor. It is interesting to point that some players justified voting the claimed doctor because "a real doctor would have protected the watcher".

In that game, town got screwed essentially because nobody said "if Sully flips mafia, doctor protect the watche (Isaiah)". After Isaiah died, the doctor got lynched because people thought it was a fakeclaim (after all, the obvious call was protecting Isaiah). Consequence is town losing 2 of their most important power roles, 1 of them through a mislynch.

What does that show?

Well, obviously, the first conclusion is that telling power roles what to do is beneficial when you don't trust people to make good calls (and the power role you're hoping to make a good call could be virtually anyone in the game).

What did I expect from MOB today?

Regardless of his alignment in the other game, the experience that MOB witnessed had to make him reconsider his way of viewing mafia games, specifically regarding the direction of power roles. I expected MOB to bring that experience over and admit that he did poorly in FOSing me for directing power roles because he had just learned how important that can be when you are simply laying the "obvious calls" ("doctor protect the cop", for instance).

What is the next conclusion?

The next conclusion is one of 2:

a) MOB was unable to realize how directing power roles the way I did was not scummy, despite having a catastrophic example from a town perspective of what may happen when people do not direct power roles
b) MOB did realize how directing power roles the way I did was not scummy, but he chose not to comment because he is anti-town here and he wouldn't risk saying anything that could possibly interfere with the mislynch he wants to see happen

I'd like to see everyone comment on that while we still have time.

[Rodion]

I forgot to point point out that there are posts in Soundman's Mafia in which I provoked MOB into thinking his approach of directing power roles.

Check this post, for instance: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 1#p3495881

The more I think about it, the more I conclude "a" is less likely than "b".

[betiko]

well first of all you were not the only one rodion here to direct actions for the town, (sorry for being lazy I'm just using my memory) but from what I remember, so did strike and so did someone else (swifte?), 3 of you did.
So it is a bit strange if you are the only player FOSed for that. On the other hand, there has been a big bandwagon on you for this and chapcrap made a big fuss out of this as well. so in that case, why are you pointing out only mob for this and not all the people that did so? because mob is the only one in that other mafia game to be also on the official one?

You have already been asking these guys why you were FOSed/voted for this and not strike. I think it was just justifications to their suspicions against you, as it added up lots of "perfect townie comments" and that you are victim of your reputation... which I can't comment because it's my first game, so i don't know if by having played you more they can read you better...

fastposted by rodion

[Leitz]

Interesting point Rodion, but as of right now I don't see anything happening soon on an potential MoB case as like you said it is only two days. We don't have time to build up a new case, especially not because of the low inactivity since the deadline has been set.

[betiko]

I forgot to point point out that there are posts in Soundman's Mafia in which I provoked MOB into thinking his approach of directing power roles.

Check this post, for instance: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 1#p3495881

The more I think about it, the more I conclude "a" is less likely than "b".

I see that chapcrap and SG7 are both in that other game. I think SG7 was not around that much during the "town guidance case", but chap was, but I m pretty sure SG7 brought it up as well.

if basically you are complaining about not being treated like strike why are you not treating mob as SG7 and chapcrap?

[Rodion]

That is a truly interesting catch, Betiko. I commend you on that.

The answer is I remembered a lot more of my directing power roles discussion with MOB than with Chap. Why did I remember MOB and forgot Chap?

I don't actually know for sure. The discussion I had with Chap about that ended because he mentioned I directed the cop when he actually meant the busdriver, so with Chap I spent less time discussing the validity of directing power roles and more time discussing why he would sneak a false statement in there.

Adding to that, MOB did complain of the "fail doc" in that game, perhaps firing my radar (it's weird that you accuse people of directing power roles as if power roles know what they have to do and then complain about a power role not knowing what to do) in a more obvious manner. That is probably why I "provoked" MOB in that game while I did not provoke Chap at all (you can read the beginning of D2 in that game if you want to check how it all happened).

But, ultimately, you are correct in the sense that part of Chap's accusation rested on me directing power roles when he also got a neat example of what may happen when power roles are not directed and yet did not retract that part of his accusation. So, yes, you can consider it a double case on MOB/Chap if you will.

I'm not sure about Shield, though. I don't remember him mentioning that back when he voted me.

[Rodion]

@Leitz: a lot can happen in 2 days. A looming deadline should not be used as an excuse to stop scumhunting.

[MoB Deadly]

Rodion - I will make sure I respond to your post tonight. I do not have time to form my debate right now I am being picked up for dinner. Probably during football I can respond so approx 3-5 hours from now.

Long story short I guess I am kind of dumb because I just noticed it now. I literally do not understand that soundmans game at all, I felt like TeeGee and Hippo are acting like scum ON PURPOSE its so obvious, but TeeGee flipped town and Hippo seems to be confirmed town by another player. I am just baffled at the stupidity we are dealing with as town.

If you directed the doctor to heal the watcher we would of been without a mafia kill that night, that would seem to be true.

My ride is here, I will post more about this later. However I want to say that wasn't the only reason I voted for you. I had about 3-5 reasons why I thought you were scum and that was one of them.

[MoB Deadly]

Posting on my phone before I eat. So I don't have any of my posts as evidence as its difficult to quote.

But Strike posted a one liner right before you did advising we protect the cop. I did not find this scummy. What I found particularily scummy was that

1. You were posting directions since the start of the game. You were even doing a Day 1 guide how to play. I think the line is crossed when you dedicate your post to direct power roles

2. I kind of combined 1 and 2. Strike posted one single sentence in a whole paragraph. Your whole post was like formatted like a list on directions what to do

I think it's more of a personal thing I have a problem with

I have no problem hinting at power roles what to do. I draw the line when you dedicated your whole post for that so it was very obvious almost every single player read it and there was no room for differential off the path. With just a hint I think it can stand out more to the player it applies to, you made absolute sure everyone including the mafia read it

Ok gotta go gotta