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yes but it's a bit different with jim as there is no doubt he is the cop. on day 3 we had to wait quite a bit for his intervention; once again he is our biggest lead to start the day and it would be good to know if we can expect something from him and if he can bring us a report on someone... or if we just move on cause he didn't send night action.safariguy5 wrote:Prodded jim, I cannot reveal who sent or didn't send in night actions because that would be the same as possibly confirming or disproving roles.
Also, I don't believe in prodding at the beginning of the day chap. I figure people know when it's daytime by looking at the thread titles.
I hope jim has some information for us. I really hope that he hasn't lost interest in the game at this stage. Last night was a crucial night for him to get his investigation done. I'd like to hear the case on MeDeFe also since I was interested in him earlier but he doesn't seem so scummy now. Either way I would really like to hear from jim.betiko wrote:yes but it's a bit different with jim as there is no doubt he is the cop. on day 3 we had to wait quite a bit for his intervention; once again he is our biggest lead to start the day and it would be good to know if we can expect something from him and if he can bring us a report on someone... or if we just move on cause he didn't send night action.safariguy5 wrote:Prodded jim, I cannot reveal who sent or didn't send in night actions because that would be the same as possibly confirming or disproving roles.
Also, I don't believe in prodding at the beginning of the day chap. I figure people know when it's daytime by looking at the thread titles.
I guess you mean that it would confirm his role at 100% which you can't do even if we all see here jimfinn as the cop with no possibility of a doubt. if we have to wait; then i guess i'll wait.
meanwhile chap; mind to elaborate your theory on medefe? cause the case on him seems quite weak to me for now.
safariguy5 wrote:Prodded jim, I cannot reveal who sent or didn't send in night actions because that would be the same as possibly confirming or disproving roles.
Also, I don't believe in prodding at the beginning of the day chap. I figure people know when it's daytime by looking at the thread titles.
that's quite an interesting thought... I would never have thought of that. Any idea who they might have targeted instead? that must mean that they have an idea who (one?) of the remaining (if not the only remaining) power roles is?betiko wrote:this is staling.. can we know if you've been proding jimfinn saf? I think he has written just 1 or 2 messages in the whole 2012. we should ve talked about it before the lynch to prepare the night.. crazy to have still the cop and have so little info. i would guess his inactivity lead the mafia not to roleblock him this time though and to go for someone else, the best scenario would be that he is being submarining..
maybe they went for the busdriver instead, although I m pretty sure it would be a wild guess from them (with yet a list reducing each time); i don't really think they have enough evidence to know who has this role, but just a thought. Jim might have played this actually quite well getting under the scum radar during day 3. Just hope it was intentional; not that he dropped out.trinicardinal wrote:that's quite an interesting thought... I would never have thought of that. Any idea who they might have targeted instead? that must mean that they have an idea who (one?) of the remaining (if not the only remaining) power roles is?betiko wrote:this is staling.. can we know if you've been proding jimfinn saf? I think he has written just 1 or 2 messages in the whole 2012. we should ve talked about it before the lynch to prepare the night.. crazy to have still the cop and have so little info. i would guess his inactivity lead the mafia not to roleblock him this time though and to go for someone else, the best scenario would be that he is being submarining..
FASTPOSTED
I sure as hell hope so too.betiko wrote:maybe they went for the busdriver instead, although I m pretty sure it would be a wild guess from them (with yet a list reducing each time); i don't really think they have enough evidence to know who has this role, but just a thought. Jim might have played this actually quite well getting under the scum radar during day 3. Just hope it was intentional; not that he dropped out.trinicardinal wrote:that's quite an interesting thought... I would never have thought of that. Any idea who they might have targeted instead? that must mean that they have an idea who (one?) of the remaining (if not the only remaining) power roles is?betiko wrote:this is staling.. can we know if you've been proding jimfinn saf? I think he has written just 1 or 2 messages in the whole 2012. we should ve talked about it before the lynch to prepare the night.. crazy to have still the cop and have so little info. i would guess his inactivity lead the mafia not to roleblock him this time though and to go for someone else, the best scenario would be that he is being submarining..
FASTPOSTED
The problem is, I have scoured this thread multiple times and haven't found much at all. We are most likely in or near a MYLO situation and we can't afford a mistake. I think we are just hoping Jim pops in with a miracle that's not going to happen.chapcrap wrote:I just caught up on the ~7 posts that I missed since Friday (I was away). Good grief. Now can we get a mass prod?
MeDeFe is still inactive, keeps being inactive, only pops in when a cases are clearly on others. I also think that others who are ignoring this case (trini, MoB, perhaps betiko) are just mafia as well. They sit back and say, oh we can't do anything except wait for jim. We've been waiting on jim since Christmas. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and we need to start looking elsewhere.
chapcrap wrote:I just caught up on the ~7 posts that I missed since Friday (I was away). Good grief. Now can we get a mass prod?
MeDeFe is still inactive, keeps being inactive, only pops in when a cases are clearly on others. I also think that others who are ignoring this case (trini, MoB, perhaps betiko) are just mafia as well. They sit back and say, oh we can't do anything except wait for jim. We've been waiting on jim since Christmas. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and we need to start looking elsewhere.
aage wrote:Never trust CYOC or pancake.
i pretty much agree with you on this. not very active, but when he pops in he has some interesting posts and he is not afraid to comit to his ideas, mostly on day 2. On day 3 he has been much less helpfull and participative, aparently for real life issues. i would still apreciate to see him give his thoughts and all.pancakemix wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say jim's a lost cause at this point. Replacement would be nice there.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that MeDeFe is, and always will be, a slow talker when it comes to mafia games. He doesn't say much, but he say thoughtful things, and I always appreciate thoughtful posts. I'll wait for right now on that. No need to rush.
maybe you need to look back at my post because you are obviously Skimming Again.chapcrap wrote:I just caught up on the ~7 posts that I missed since Friday (I was away). Good grief. Now can we get a mass prod?
MeDeFe is still inactive, keeps being inactive, only pops in when a cases are clearly on others. I also think that others who are ignoring this case (trini, MoB, perhaps betiko) are just mafia as well. They sit back and say, oh we can't do anything except wait for jim. We've been waiting on jim since Christmas. I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and we need to start looking elsewhere.
That's definitely not ignoring is it? At this point in time the only scummy thing is that he is hardly posting - by that reasoning jim is the scummiest of them all. I'd love to hear if you have more on MeDeFe. Please remember that I had (much earlier) posted a full case on MeDeFe and I was suspicious for that very same reason - thing is I haven't really seem scum tells otherwise so I'm not so sure.trinicardinal wrote:I hope jim has some information for us. I really hope that he hasn't lost interest in the game at this stage. Last night was a crucial night for him to get his investigation done. I'd like to hear the case on MeDeFe also since I was interested in him earlier but he doesn't seem so scummy now. Either way I would really like to hear from jim.betiko wrote:yes but it's a bit different with jim as there is no doubt he is the cop. on day 3 we had to wait quite a bit for his intervention; once again he is our biggest lead to start the day and it would be good to know if we can expect something from him and if he can bring us a report on someone... or if we just move on cause he didn't send night action.safariguy5 wrote:Prodded jim, I cannot reveal who sent or didn't send in night actions because that would be the same as possibly confirming or disproving roles.
Also, I don't believe in prodding at the beginning of the day chap. I figure people know when it's daytime by looking at the thread titles.
I guess you mean that it would confirm his role at 100% which you can't do even if we all see here jimfinn as the cop with no possibility of a doubt. if we have to wait; then i guess i'll wait.
meanwhile chap; mind to elaborate your theory on medefe? cause the case on him seems quite weak to me for now.
a valid question betiko and one I'd like to hear the answer to as well.betiko wrote:i pretty much agree with you on this. not very active, but when he pops in he has some interesting posts and he is not afraid to comit to his ideas, mostly on day 2. On day 3 he has been much less helpfull and participative, aparently for real life issues. i would still apreciate to see him give his thoughts and all.pancakemix wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say jim's a lost cause at this point. Replacement would be nice there.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that MeDeFe is, and always will be, a slow talker when it comes to mafia games. He doesn't say much, but he say thoughtful things, and I always appreciate thoughtful posts. I'll wait for right now on that. No need to rush.
I think it would be a good thing if jimfinn is replaced as he is by far the most inactive player of all the remaining players; but i'd be interested to see more from medefe.
regarding trini; I don't know, he has been quite helpfull all game long and has made lots of detailed cases on diferent players all game.
We haven't heard from dazza today yet am i right? why did you hammer jonty so fast dazza, with more than a day left?
In that case Leitz - why not add in your vote?Leitz wrote:I've been thinking about what to post here since the night scene, but there is really nothing I can add to the situation. We're stuck with no evidence, no tells, nothing. Jimfinn should be replaced, but that doesn't take away that mafia is doing a pretty good job of staying under the radar. They are smart not lynching the more inactive people and hence giving them more and more momentum as the game progresses.
Like in the other game I'm playing I'll mention my gut feeling just to get it out in the open: trini is mafia.
At this point in time I have to agree - we have no deadline yet and we have to be very careful - If we mis lynch we are in trouble and if we give mafia a chance to speed lynch - same thing so I think we need lots of discussion today in relation to people. I still would prefer to get something from jim if possible but I recognise that jim may be a lost cause and that we have to make a decision without him. An innocent or guilty will be helpful either way (if he has a result) - since it gives us something to work with. IF we don't get anything from him then I come back to this:pancakemix wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say jim's a lost cause at this point. Replacement would be nice there.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that MeDeFe is, and always will be, a slow talker when it comes to mafia games. He doesn't say much, but he say thoughtful things, and I always appreciate thoughtful posts. I'll wait for right now on that. No need to rush.
trinicardinal wrote:hmmm.. we have 10 players 4 of which we assume to be mafia - so If we lynch wrong today that's it?
OF the players remaining
Leitz - claimed Sally One Way Lover
MoB Deadly - no claim
jimfinn - claim Cop
shieldgenerator7 replaced by pancakemix - no claim
dazza2008 -Behemoth VT
trinicardinal - no claim
Epitaph1 - no claim
betiko - no claim
MeDeFe - no claim
chapcrap - no claim but considered to have softclaimed VT after the Rodion case
did I miss anyone? can someone please verify my list since I've done this basically from memory
Fast posted
I'm a bit surprised also but maybe they figured he was watcher???Epitaph1 wrote:I'm kind of surprised the mafia took out strike. A lot of people sounded like they thought zero was a fakeclaim (I was thinking it as well) and I thought he would be one of our suspects today. At first, I thought he was busdriven but the flavor doesn't suggest as much.
jim, you got anything for us?
If jim doesn't have anything for us then I'd say we must concentrate on those who have not claimed and Yes I'm included in that list. I'm hoping for a lot more than that though.
Maybe you should read the post above. I answered it.trinicardinal wrote:a valid question betiko and one I'd like to hear the answer to as well.betiko wrote:i pretty much agree with you on this. not very active, but when he pops in he has some interesting posts and he is not afraid to comit to his ideas, mostly on day 2. On day 3 he has been much less helpfull and participative, aparently for real life issues. i would still apreciate to see him give his thoughts and all.pancakemix wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say jim's a lost cause at this point. Replacement would be nice there.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that MeDeFe is, and always will be, a slow talker when it comes to mafia games. He doesn't say much, but he say thoughtful things, and I always appreciate thoughtful posts. I'll wait for right now on that. No need to rush.
I think it would be a good thing if jimfinn is replaced as he is by far the most inactive player of all the remaining players; but i'd be interested to see more from medefe.
regarding trini; I don't know, he has been quite helpfull all game long and has made lots of detailed cases on diferent players all game.
We haven't heard from dazza today yet am i right? why did you hammer jonty so fast dazza, with more than a day left?
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
Here you go:MeDeFe wrote:Well, then we might as well get on with it I guess. Chapcrap, your case on me, please.
chapcrap wrote:Well, I already stated in my last post of Day 2 about the following 3:
Leitz is super scummy
MeDeFe should be pressured
strike wolf is scum or a power role
I am thinking about MeDeFe, then Leitz, then strike wolf.
So, I make both of those posts and MeDeFe doesn't even respond... Here's his first post since December:chapcrap wrote:...MeDeFe: Laid low for Day 1 except for advocating a no lynch. Suddenly popped in on Day 2 with longer posts. I don't think that his posts were really that helpful or enlightening and was just trying to make it look like he was being a bigger part of the game...
MeDeFe wrote:A scum busdriver is rather unlikely with as many VTs in the game as we've seen.
When he finally responds, he says nothing at all except 'Don't look at me.MeDeFe wrote:Let's pressure Leitz then. Scummy stuff > nothing.chapcrap wrote:Well, my two other options for today, after strike, were MeDeFe and Leitz. MeDeFe has been suspiciously quiet today while Leitz is just doing more of the same scummy stuff. For instance, a post with nothing of value:
*snip*
'
I question him again to try and get him to participate and stop submarining. Then:chapcrap wrote:betiko wrote:well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch
Hurry up!! We only have two weeks!
Anyway...
Epitaph, just because Leitz tried to make a case on dazza, doesn't make him scummy. What would you do if you were getting pressured? What else would you have him do? Roll over and take it? That is the best option he has if he isn't an obvious town power role. And he if he is, it's a better option than having to claim. Especially at this point. So, do I think Leitz is scummy? A little, but not in any way because he tried to make a (potentially) better case against dazza.
MeDeFe?
I state again that he is being minimally active and only trying to lay low. He only posts when there are obvious cases already made on others and isn't contributing anything (just like previous days!).chapcrap wrote:First of all, dazza is a guy.
Second, I wasn't asking for people to vote MeDeFe, I was trying to get him to come to the game. I have mentioned multiple times that he isn't doing anything and instead of coming in, he remains silent. I'm not the only one who said something either. betiko said something about it as well.
This was his last post, 6 days ago:Before this post, he hadn't done anything either. I'm really starting to think he's scum will all of this laying low and letting the fight go on between dazza and Leitz.MeDeFe wrote:Let's pressure Leitz then. Scummy stuff > nothing.chapcrap wrote:Well, my two other options for today, after strike, were MeDeFe and Leitz. MeDeFe has been suspiciously quiet today while Leitz is just doing more of the same scummy stuff. For instance, a post with nothing of value:
*snip*
Again, I say something about him and he still doesn't show up until he decides to make a giant post. All of the previous posts took place over 3 weeks. When he finally decides to participatepost, he just makes a large post that only summarizes everything that everyone else has already said. Then, at the end, he doesn't even take a stance. Not only does he not take a stance, he still doesn't respond to anything I had said about him being semi-present and gives no reason that he hasn't been posting more.chapcrap wrote:I'd just like to vote MeDeFe, but there is no reason to throw a 4th case in the mix right now.MoB Deadly wrote:Leitz > Jonty > Dazza in terms of scumminess in my eyes. But I didn't catch the "I recommend" part the first time, that could be a scum slip trying to get his buddys over to the dazza case.
I am willing to vote him but I would like to here from MeDeFe, and Trini said he had a case a couple times, I would like to hear that too.
MeDeFe wrote:First of all, sorry.
I'm inclined to believe dazza's claim of VT, the case against him has been convoluted to say the least and depends on the scum playing a perfect game, keeping track of people's location, login and posting habits, and presupposes a level of planning worthy of Operation Neptune.
Which brings me to the case I would prefer to follow: Leitz
Looking back at the case he made against dazza, I must say it's really very badly crafted, but it's long, uses a lot of quotes and can look quite convincing on a cursory read-through. But all Leitz did was to interpret dazza's posts as though dazza had a secret agenda.
Let's take the first "suspicious" point. Dazza offers to hammer Rodion right after chap offered to do it. Then dazza says to get Rodion to L-1 and either he or chap would hammer.
Frankly, I see nothing suspicious about that, but Leitz, by careful quoting, tries to make it appear as though dazza were flip-flopping, first offering and then backtracking, when all he had done was to state the facts that were apparent to everyone: That two people had offered to hammer Rodion and that one of them would do it.
And the second point? Again dazza says the obvious, we know Rodion is a good player and that he can be very convincing, it's also quite true that the longer the discussion went on the more things the scum could deduce about potential town power roles and who they might want to target. Otoh town could also deduce things about powerroles and about about scum who might not want to die alongside the town bomb.
What does Leitz make of that?That's quite the jump.Reading this gives me a feeling of "I know I'm scum, so I know who else is scum and it's not Rodion, so let's get another townie out of the way"
Then a very long quote and a very short comment about "soft spots". That's not building a case, that's providing filler for a post.
Now things get somewhat interesting, Leitz quotes himself and dazza's reaction to it. Let's have that in its entirety.Leitz goes and phrases the situation in the form of a very inconsequential question, I would say he's really just feigning input. Dazza's reaction is the only correct one to a post like that, you ask what the poster intends to do about it. And what was Leitz' response?Here I mentioned we had two volunteers willing to hammer. It did feel like chap got the preference from everyone to hammer now I reread everything all over again. As a volunteer to hammer, I believe dazza here should've said: "Indeed, put him on L-1 and I will". But he didn't, so it seems he really isn't that keen on hammering after all..safariguy5 wrote:Vote Count
Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion
dazza2008 wrote:So what do you suggest?Leitz wrote: We're letting this drag! Rodion is two votes away, so we either let dazza or chap hammer, correct? I trust neither of them really..Check it if you don't believe me: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 0#p3503688Leitz wrote:To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..
So from Leitz' stance of just wanting to get the day over and done with when he was asked for input, he goes to seeing an inconsistency (which usually means scumtell) in dazza's play. Sure, sometimes things change with hindsight, but in this case... no, I don't see it.
Then Leitz quotes dazza saying that chap needs to unvote before chap can hammer, or that someone needs to vote so dazza can hammer. Leitz turns this into dazza "avoiding himself and giving chap his confidence". I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean, I don't see how it's in any way scummy or inconsistent, though.
The scumminess of Trini putting Rodion at L-2 after chap's unvote also eludes me. The general consensus was to have chap hammer. SOMEONE needed to put Rodion at L-2 for that. Then dazza to put him at L-1 because the day 2 deadline explicitly came with the person having the most votes getting lynched and the person to vote last being the hammer. According to Leitz this is both scummy and not scummy.
So, in summary, while Leitz previous low activity may have been adequately explained, the general shoddiness of his input has not. His case against dazza took up about a third or a fourth of the page, the contents of the case, well, what contents? I think it's time we put the heat on Leitz for real, and it's good to see that some have already started.
If I count correctly, Leitz is currently at 5, with 7 necessary to lynch. I'm hesitant to put him at L-1 in case I'm wrong, but I do think a claim is in order.
Leitz then agrees with me and asks for an explanation. Guess what? He doesn't get one either! Instead, MeDeFe decides to vote for him.MeDeFe wrote:Or maybe I don't want to burden you all with my RL.chapcrap wrote:MeDeFe quiet for most of the day, gives no reason as to why, then suddenly decides to weigh in with a goodlarge post. Hmm, sounds a lot like day 2 for him. Stay under the radar until cases are made and then you can give your opinion.
As you can see, I mention pressuring him a few more times and he simply ignores it when he posts.MeDeFe wrote:I did say "sorry".Leitz wrote:Who said anything about burdening? An apology for your absence & a simple explanation won't harm. You haven't posted here for a very long time, it is normal that we would expect some kind of explanation.MeDeFe wrote:Or maybe I don't want to burden you all with my RL.chapcrap wrote:MeDeFe quiet for most of the day, gives no reason as to why, then suddenly decides to weigh in with a goodlarge post. Hmm, sounds a lot like day 2 for him. Stay under the radar until cases are made and then you can give your opinion.
@ safari: is it correct that I'm at L-2?
And since it looks like you're not at L-2 after all.
vote Leitz
In his final post of yesterday, he decided to vote for jonty. He did find time to post during the night though!chapcrap wrote:Depends what he claims and if it's believable. If it is also believable, then I guess we could try MeDeFe or go back and decide that we no longer believe strike or Leitz and lynch them.dazza2008 wrote:This was my point really. With nothing to go on it seems we have no where to go. We could pressure Jonty then he will claim then what?chapcrap wrote:dazza2008 wrote:It feels to me like we are clearing people just for a strong character. Do we not think that fakeclaims would be strong in this game?They may have strong fake claims, but when given a very strong fake claim, should we just say, no, that's too strong, you're lying or should be we try to find someone else? I mean, it's not like we can just lynch everyone even if they claim.chapcrap wrote:I honestly have no feel for who to vote or what's going on. I continue to look at MeDeFe. I feel like Leitz and dazza have both been cleared. My vote remains on jonty, because he is the best case of those 3, but not a good one.
And if we're talking about things being fake claims, strike's claim of zero could easily be a fake claim as well.
He continued to simply lay low (while posting in other areas of the site). Finally he posts today:MeDeFe wrote:There must be one hell of a scene coming up.
______________________________________________________________________________MeDeFe wrote:Well, then we might as well get on with it I guess. Chapcrap, your case on me, please.
And it makes me think you've been skimming my longer posts. You used my case against Leitz as an example and said it was only a summary. Well, I don't think that word means what you think it means. A summary is what you get when you condense something else into a shorter form, my case on Leitz clearly went beyond a mere summary in that I also systematically pointed out flaws in his reasoning. Unfortunately the scum don't have a monopoly on bad reasoning and I now think that Leitz is who and what he claimed to be. I think I'll just leave it at that, it should be fairly obvious for anyone reading that post, so unless you can demonstrate, using the whole post and not mere snippets of it, that I only summed up what others had said and didn't add any input of my own I don't see the need to go into depth there.He only posts when there are obvious cases already made on others and isn't contributing anything (just like previous days!).
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
jimfinn wrote:Hey guys, sorry, I posted yesterday but apparently it didn't load? Anyway, I tested strikes claim and he was inno.
I'm getting pretty frustrated right now, but I'd like to keep playing and see if i can get anything useful.
