jakewesthoff - Misogyny/sexual harassment [warned] bg

[jgordon1111]

people are called bitches on this site in game chat alot E2 and action figures are (really dolls) and millions of little boys play with them everyday I.e. neither of those are sterotyping.

Even worse the C word is allowed and thats not stereotyping according to game chat.

[eddie2]

no but that statement is what started the rest of it. so in effect you are all saying becky started it when actually jake did.

[IcePack]

Becky baited him

Bigotry is not ok, no matter if you were "baited" or not. And frankly, I can't even see where becky did anything to "bait" this guy. He/she did call him an "idiot", but that's not a punishable offence in game chat, while bigotry is.

Let me put it clearly: if someone calls you an idiot, it does NOT give you a free pass to break the rules just because you feel you were "baited".

No one said it gives you a free pass. There was no "personal attack" other then things that were instigated and didn't cross the line. Sorry, but calling someone a bitch and telling them to do something isn't sexist. If i tell someone to "go f*ck themselves" its allowed, is that a personal sexual attack vs that person?

I've agreed all along he was completely rude and should have just stayed quite, but he didn't do anything that should be "punishable". Even if its a warning, if he did it again its not a warning.

IcePack

[jgordon1111]

E2 do you realized what you just said, But that statement is what started it. Started what? there was nothing sexist about that statement. it or some version of it is acceptable in game chat per hundreds of other players doing the exact same thing in one form or another and there is no warning for sexism.

And the other statement follow the same guidelines. so again he was a dumbass maybe but not a sexist.

Becky on the other hand tried to draw him into saying something possibly worse than what was already said,on more than one occassion (with do you talk to your mother like that) knowing he was already a dumbass and hoping he would really step in it.

Then becky brought up the weight thing hoping he would jump on that as well,again he was a dumbass but not sexist

Finally becky comes here and reports said player for sexism and [img]SEXUAL%20HARASSMENT[/img] your kidding with that right Becky has stated in the forum HE is a Dude.

So the final result is Jake is a dumbass not a sexist or bigot

Becky baited said dumbass and filed a spurious report alleging sexual harassment,which is not possible because everything he said was directed to a womans perspective. Becky being a dude should have LMAO at him, nope time to make a report.

All in all becky should have been told sorry game chat is open for that FAMO

[IR1SH ACE]

have to agree that this is a bad decision and should have been closed straight off the bat and both told to FAMO...it is blatant that becky is playing on this perception of been female....the name and the avatar just screams girly girly...

You guys are being intolerant jerks and also, you are perpetuating normative and harmful gender-stereotypes.

Becky baited him

Bigotry is not ok, no matter if you were "baited" or not. And frankly, I can't even see where becky did anything to "bait" this guy. He/she did call him an "idiot", but that's not a punishable offence in game chat, while bigotry is.

Let me put it clearly: if someone calls you an idiot, it does NOT give you a free pass to break the rules just because you feel you were "baited".

nobody said that calling him an idiot was the bait..I cant believe when people quote me but dont bother to read the post they just quoted from...

2012-02-14 11:12:08 - jakewesthoff: dumbass
2012-02-14 11:12:33 - jakewesthoff: stupid bitch go play with dolls (right here jake is not happy he is getting beat by a girl but Iv seen a lot worse in game chat)
2012-02-14 11:12:43 - Beckytheblondie: how did jakarta go from 4 to 2? idiot (then becky responds with similar insult)
2012-02-14 11:12:58 - Beckytheblondie: youre mean (this is a complete girly comment the only thing missing here is the pouty experrison and fluttering eyelashes)
here he is baiting jake into saying something more punishable....
2012-02-14 11:13:01 - Beckytheblondie: and a misogynist (playing on the perception of been female)
becky has another stab at it...tell him he is a woman hater...see if he bites ..
2012-02-14 11:13:10 - Beckytheblondie: do you treat your mother like that? (and here is the first BAIT)
becky pulls out the ace card...mention his mother and see if he will responded with some sort of sexist comment
2012-02-14 11:13:37 - jakewesthoff: yeah when she doesnt do my dishes and laundry (which jake swallows hook, line....)
BINGO....DING, DING JACKPOT.....jake takes the BAIT
2012-02-14 11:16:42 - Beckytheblondie: age doesnt matter as its still inapproriate regardless of age or weight (and here is the second BAIT)
becky feels like he might need a bit more ammo b4 opening a C&A case..he thinks I know what might work mention weight for no reason except to bait some kind of sexist response from jake
2012-02-14 11:18:08 - jakewesthoff: wel u have to bbe over 18
2012-02-14 11:18:21 - jakewesthoff: and since you included weight that means ur fat (would not even call this sexism maybe weightism)
probably not the response that becky was looking for....unless its against the rules to call someone FAT

jake is an idiot and should be foed....becky knew from the initial comment.....
2012-02-14 11:12:33 - jakewesthoff: stupid bitch go play with dolls (right here jake is not happy he is getting beat by a girl but Iv seen a lot worse in game chat)
that he could manipulate jake into eventually saying something sexist...if he just kept feeding the right responses out he would get a bite
and to be honest its a very weak sexist comment...this is what i assumed he got his warning for..
2012-02-14 11:13:37 - jakewesthoff: yeah when she doesnt do my dishes and laundry (which jake swallows hook, line....)
maybe he is a dick to his mom and was been honest....

to be honest Im not even going to get into this with you natty....this case is very very low on my interest level and only came in to point out a couple of things how I see them...you can be like a dog with a bone when you get into a debate and I do enjoy some of your arguments and rebuttals when you get going and would probably enjoy going a few rounds with you but not over this issue...

You guys are being intolerant jerks and also, you are perpetuating normative and harmful gender-stereotypes.

And saying that he/she cannot be sexually harassed just because you think you have a right to define his/her gender for him/her is downright IDIOTIC and you should both feel ashamed of yourselves.

I do not appreciate being called jerk and idiotic just for pointing out that becky is a dude and that he then plays on been a female in an effort to get jake to say something sexist so he can start this report...and I never mentioned anywhere that "he cannot be sexually harassed just because I think I have a right to define his gender for him"

just said I did not agree with this decision on the basis that becky was fishing for it the "mom" and "weight" comments where baits...
but thanks for putting words in my mouth and summing me up from one post in this thread....maybe next time you call me out on something it will be something worth debating with you....good night

[Woodruff]

Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc.

The term "retard" REALLY needs to be added to this definition in some fashion.

[jefjef]

sexism

1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexist

Forum Guidelines
Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc.

So you warned him for a "play with dolls" comment? BG are you aware that GAME CHAT is treated differently than FORUMS?.. Cuz it is...

You site FORUM GUIDLINES; The following is from GAME CHAT GUIDELINES:

Conquer Club takes a fairly liberal approach to what is said in Game Chats

[IcePack]

Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc.

The term "retard" REALLY needs to be added to this definition in some fashion.

In your opinion. In mine, it shouldn't.

[jgordon1111]

I have a question a little off topic here In the guidelines for bigotry, why is lack of religion bashing part of bigotry, right after religion bashing.

And which way do we go, bash religion or not? Have to know please got a forum vacation for being wrong once dont want another!

[Master Bush]

That game chat was funny when I thought becky was a girl. But now that I know it's a guy, I find the whole thing weird. Oh, and the warning is bs.

[natty dread]

Ok, I see so many narrow-minded, sexist statements here that I don't even know where to start...

IR1SH ACE wrote:2012-02-14 11:12:08 - jakewesthoff: dumbass
2012-02-14 11:12:33 - jakewesthoff: stupid bitch go play with dolls (right here jake is not happy he is getting beat by a girl but Iv seen a lot worse in game chat)

Oh yeah, if someone thinks they're being "beat by a girl", well obviously that's just a HUGE insult against them because you know, girls are stupid, amirite?

2012-02-14 11:12:43 - Beckytheblondie: how did jakarta go from 4 to 2? idiot (then becky responds with similar insult)
2012-02-14 11:12:58 - Beckytheblondie: youre mean (this is a complete girly comment the only thing missing here is the pouty experrison and fluttering eyelashes)

Right, because if someone says things like "youre mean" that is such an OBVIOUSLY girly thing to say, and Real Manly Men are forbidden from ever saying or doing any icky girly things because that's just horrible and GAY (gasp!), and that's just the worst thing ever, right?

Grow up and stop that idiotic gender policing. Maybe Becky is a trans-woman. Maybe he/she is a feminine man. Maybe xe is genderfluid or agendered (those are real things, look them up). The question is, what's it to you, and how does it justify sexual harrasment and abuse?

2012-02-14 11:13:01 - Beckytheblondie: and a misogynist (playing on the perception of been female)

Right, because OBVIOUSLY no one except females can care about people being misogynists... you're grasping at straws and making silly assumptions.

So what do you mean by this "playing on the perception" shit again? What does it matter to you, and how is it in ANY WAY relevant what kind of gender-presentation Becky performs?

Jake was calling Becky a "stupid bitch" and telling him/her to "go play with dolls". In that situation, I would call Jake out for his misogyny as well.

2012-02-14 11:13:10 - Beckytheblondie: do you treat your mother like that? (and here is the first BAIT)

That's not baiting.

becky pulls out the ace card...mention his mother and see if he will responded with some sort of sexist comment

Right, of course it's not Jake's fault for making sexist comments. "She asked for it", right?

2012-02-14 11:16:42 - Beckytheblondie: age doesnt matter as its still inapproriate regardless of age or weight (and here is the second BAIT)

HOW IS THIS BAITING IN ANY WAY?

Is this guy Jake guy your clanmate or something? Because it seems to me you're just making shit up, twisting things entirely out of context and interpreting things creatively just to see some imaginary baiting where there is none, all to justify horrible, sexist behaviour.

What's up with that?

And regardless... even if Becky was baiting (which you have NOT shown) it absolutely does NOT justify bigotry, sexism or sexual harrasment.

I do not appreciate being called jerk and idiotic just for pointing out that becky is a dude and that he then plays on been a female

Well tough, because that is a totally idiotic thing to say.

Becky's gender or gender-presentation is NONE of your business. He/she can present him/herself as male, female or agendered, and it's none of your business, and certainly does NOT justify Jake's comments.

Do you think all transgendered people are just "playing on" being the opposite gender?

but thanks for putting words in my mouth

Oh, I didn't put words in your mouth. You're doing it all by yourself.

Finally becky comes here and reports said player for sexism and [img]SEXUAL%20HARASSMENT[/img] your kidding with that right Becky has stated in the forum HE is a Dude.

Oh, and everything I said to ace also applies to you as well. What Becky has or has not said in the past is irrelevant. Lots of people are afraid of coming out as transgendered, and with people gender-policing and treating them as "dudes who just play women" it's no wonder.

Becky baited said dumbass and filed a spurious report alleging sexual harassment,which is not possible because everything he said was directed to a womans perspective. Becky being a dude should have LMAO at him, nope time to make a report.

Sexual harrassment is not gender-specific. You can be sexually harrassed no matter what gender you are.

[Beckytheblondie]

jakewesthoff has been warned.

Thank you.

[Beckytheblondie]

You guys are being intolerant jerks and also, you are perpetuating normative and harmful gender-stereotypes.

Gender is a social construct. You can be born with male genitals, but if you feel like a female, and identify as a female, then your gender is female. If Beckytheblondie identifies as a female, then that is no one else's business. That's his/her decision ONLY.

And saying that he/she cannot be sexually harassed just because you think you have a right to define his/her gender for him/her is downright IDIOTIC and you should both feel ashamed of yourselves.

+1

I think we need to stop breaking down game specific chat and begin to foster an environment in which everyone feels invited and accepted to play on a level playing field.

In the environment I live, gender roles are not defined in the same manner as typically identified in society. Gender pronouns are not given neutrality but rather given ubiquity. Defining a person to a single, narrow, and bigoted view is the opposite of how I and many I know live our lives.

Personal reasons aside, this thread and comments in the caused game chat has been twisted into a more limiting debate of sexual characteristics. Only a few posters (eddie, natty, BC, et. al.) understand the importance of nipping harassment and incubating a sense of general acceptance on conquer club.

This is not to say I do not appreciate everyone's words! I do! You all should be able to debate the way you'd like to, and you think there is credence to the argument of my baiting or other, I welcome the debate. We can debate knowing that the constructs are being broken down rather than strengthen-up. I applaud those who understand that EVERYONE can be attacked and that attack can hurt.

I do not throw around C&A reports without aim. I only try to pull down the walls of hated built with the tools of ignorance and anger. I am proud and I hope you will join me in creating a user-friendly environment!

Sincerest, BeckyTheBlondie

[Evolution299]

In true actuality, BG is the sexist one in all of this. He is assuming that it is ONLY ok for girls to play with dolls and not for boys as well. That is what his ruling is based on, because Bubba aka Becky portraits the false impression of being a woman.

Since " go play with dolls" is an ambiguous statement nowadays, as it is okay for anyone to play with dolls, it can't be considered as sexist.

Thus this whole ruling is bogus and should (but probably won't) be reviewed and over turned, as it would show that one of it's new recruits was alittle over zealous in his ruling.

In fact, someone should file a C&A report against BG for being sexist and assuming that it is only OK for girls to play with dolls.

You want the truth, YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Ladies and gentlemen the defense rests.

[jefjef]

So if you tell someone to play with toys, such as army men, you are a sexist and will be warned but If you sling c*nt around (which is an offensive gender specific slur) it's OK. Gotcha.

Fucked up ruling.

[jgordon1111]

Becky I for one realize you dont throw around C&A reports without (aim,) It's my contention you baited him on purpose to file this report. Just so you place your beliefs in a C&A thread. Now you have the right to have your beliefs here and in the real world,and if you had wanted them in the forum on CC you should have opened a thread in the discussion forum. But what you did to draw in a MOD, was to title it in a way that got immediate attention. and I say if you are a guy then what he was saying would not be considered sexual harrassment by a guy, Its very clear he thinks your a woman thus motorboating boobs is his way of getting a womans goat so to say, yet your not a woman therefore in context you could not consider this sexual harrassment of you personally. Then you bait him a little more with the weight thing. All in all you set him up pretty well, from your first point of telling him he was wrong,after of course you already knew he was mad and helped escalate it rather than say hey sometimes the dice go your way sometimes they dont or just FAMO. But again I say you did those things just so you could make this spurious report and have your views put in a C&A thread. And you used a MOD to get your way on a spurious report,a new mod who is trying to do a good job in light of some of the craziness that has happened recently. Now to alot of people you have made him look a fool and noob. Congratulations I hope getting your personal views out there for everyone was worth that.

[natty dread]

Since " go play with dolls" is an ambiguous statement nowadays, as it is okay for anyone to play with dolls, it can't be considered as sexist.

You're ignoring the historical and cultural baggage of the expression. The same way you could argue that calling someone a n***er is ok because it's "just a word" or "it just means a black person"... but either way it's still offensive and it's not ok to call someone that, because the word has hateful connotations and has been commonly used in a derogatory way in the past.

You can't ignore the fact that "go play with dolls" is a loaded expression - it's a statement historically used to belittle and silence women, and it is therefore sexist. Words and expressions have meanings, that's how language works.

and I say if you are a guy then what he was saying would not be considered sexual harrassment by a guy, Its very clear he thinks your a woman thus motorboating boobs is his way of getting a womans goat so to say, yet your not a woman therefore in context you could not consider this sexual harrassment of you personally.

1 - you have no business telling Becky what gender he/she is, that's his/her decision, NOT YOURS.
2 - sexual harrassment is sexual harrassment, and sexist comments are sexist comments, no matter what the gender of the recipient is.
3 - you have no business telling Becky what he/she should be offended about.

The only point that matters regarding the C&A decision is that the accused made sexist comments, and sexism is forbidden in CC according to the bigotry guidelines. Therefore the warning was entirely appropriate.

[Evolution299]

So if you tell someone to play with toys, such as army men, you are a sexist and will be warned but If you sling c*nt around (which is an offensive gender specific slur) it's OK. Gotcha.

Fucked up ruling.

That is correct JefJef. We now have guidlines for game chat. Jakewesthoff could have called Becky aka Bubba a "used, second rate, sandblasted, double stuffed, gutter trash, dirty, trout tasting c***t" and it would have been ok as per a previous ruling. But as per BG, he can not tell her/him/he/she to play with dolls. Although there is absolutlely nothing wrong with that, since both boys and girls can play with dolls.

BG just admit that your decision was made in haste, have another mod review this and overturn it, so you can save some face and not have to change your decision.

Naddy, quit living in the past. Both boys and girls can play with dolls nowadays. And comparing it to the "N" word is a farce.

[BGtheBrain]

I stand by my decision.

Sexist comments will not be tolerated.

Telling a woman (or someone you think is a woman) "stupid bitch go play with dolls" is a sexist comment.

This thread has gone on long enough and its only getting worse.

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