Conservapedia

[Doc_Brown]

People who truly think like that get to vote.

That's how democracy works. People are allowed to vote whether or not their views are the same as yours.

Yes, which is why real education is fundamental to functioning democracy.

Else, what you get, in time, is dictating by manipulating the truth available.

How right you are:

"Our modern state education is mainly designed to produce convenient citizens, and therefore dare not encourage spontaneity, since all spontaneity interferes with system. There is a tendency to uniformity, to the suppression of private judgment, to the production of populations which are tame. . . . Even if our civilization escapes destruction in great wars, this tendency of state education to produce mental slavery will, if it is not checked, kill out everything of value in the way of art and thought, and even ultimately of human affection. And it inevitably kills the joy of life, which cannot exist where spontaneity is dead."

-- Bertrand Russell, Prospects of Industrial Civilization, p. 251.

So let's make sure to outlaw homeschooling and get all those kids into the public education system so they can think ... more conveniently.

[huamulan]

People who truly think like that get to vote.

That's how democracy works. People are allowed to vote whether or not their views are the same as yours.

Yes, which is why real education is fundamental to functioning democracy.

Else, what you get, in time, is dictating by manipulating the truth available.

Real education is important so that we can teach people not to vote a certain way? It seems to me like you are looking at certain people's political ideologies and deciding that you don't approve.

Sounds a little like the mindset of every authoritarian government ever. Are you sure democracy is what you want?

[jonesthecurl]

No: it's an attempt to get people to vote knowledgeably.
How you teach them determines whether that's plauible.

[huamulan]

The implication of her statement was that certain ideological perspectives would automatically be ruled out by anyone who has been given a 'real education'.

[Woodruff]

So what I'm hearing from yourself, Phatscotty and thegreekdog here is...it makes no difference at all what is taught in school. Do I have that right?

No, what you're hearing is that things like this don't amount to much, that a person's education is much more than one jackass teacher (even if said jackass is one's parent), and that there are much bigger concerns than this.

Certainly, there are much bigger concerns than this...no question at all. But if it doesn't matter what a homeschooled kid learns from his only teacher, then why does it matter what a public school kid learns from the teacher in conglomeration? Why the distinction?

There are a couple of reasons to make a distinction (that I can think of right now at 7:04 AM eastern standard time):

(1) There are a whole lot more people getting publicly educated than home schooled.

Sure, I can agree with that. And yet, doesn't the individual matter at all?

(2) There are studies showing that home schooled children are more prepared for the rigors of college and work life than publicly educated children (yes, I will find the studies), regardless of whether they learn about evolution or creationism.

That's probably true. As I've stated previously, I'm actually a fan of homeschooling, when it's done right. For me, this isn't about homeschooling and it's definitely not about religion (I was raised in and pretty much live by the Baptist tradition)...it's entirely about using a site like Conservapedia as part of the teaching material.

Again, the question here is whether indocrination into conservative doctrine or creationism harms the child. I don't see a whole lot of evidence for this other than the "Well, he/she is not learning the real stuff."

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

[jonesthecurl]

The implication of her statement was that certain ideological perspectives would automatically be ruled out by anyone who has been given a 'real education'.

I didn't get that.
She did imply that certain interest groups would be less likely to manipulate the voter if they had more information, however.

[thegreekdog]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

[Symmetry]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

An interesting argument for indoctrination.

[natty dread]

Would you rather be a millionaire with no legs or a healthy homeless person with no money?

[thegreekdog]

Would you rather be a millionaire with no legs or a healthy homeless person with no money?

A healthy homeless person with no money.

[thegreekdog]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

An interesting argument for indoctrination.

Well, again, there's the idea that some people want to know things regardless of the relative usefulness of making their lives better and that some people want to know the things that will help them succeed in life (and there are combinations of the two).

[natty dread]

Would you rather be a millionaire with no legs or a healthy homeless person with no money?

A healthy homeless person with no money.

But what if you were such a rich millionaire you could hire a team of scientists to develop artificial cyborg legs for you?

[thegreekdog]

Would you rather be a millionaire with no legs or a healthy homeless person with no money?

A healthy homeless person with no money.

But what if you were such a rich millionaire you could hire a team of scientists to develop artificial cyborg legs for you?

Hmm... the a rich millionaire.

[Woodruff]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

Why is it an either/or question? I don't understand that. Both should be held to high standards. That's my point.

[natty dread]

Would you rather be a millionaire with no legs or a healthy homeless person with no money?

A healthy homeless person with no money.

But what if you were such a rich millionaire you could hire a team of scientists to develop artificial cyborg legs for you?

Hmm... the a rich millionaire.

But what if the cyborg legs would suck and they'd be awkward to walk with and make annoying whirring noises when you move?

[Timminz]

But they come with a free frogurt.

[natty dread]

But the frogurt is also cursed.

[Pedronicus]

I've been reading bit's of this website and it's utter lunacy. Phatscotty and NS's viewpoints are warped and the two them are clinically insane.

[huamulan]

She did imply that certain interest groups would be less likely to manipulate the voter if they had more information, however.

The US Government has ultimate control over the state education provided in the US. The US Government is not going to harm its own self-interest by, say, promoting communism or fascism as legitimate political ideologies.

It's all very well to say that Christians who home-school their children are 'manipulating' their children into believing in Creationism, but by this definition 'brainwashing' is occurring within every educational system the world over. Sometimes people see the world a different way to you and they pass this on to their children, and this is okay.

[thegreekdog]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

Why is it an either/or question? I don't understand that. Both should be held to high standards. That's my point.

If the first group of people is at 80% effectiveness and the second group of people, of whom there are many, many, many more, is at 20% effectiveness, it becomes an either/or proposition. It's funny that I've heard more news stories ad blogs and commentary about home schooled children and their "lack of education" than I have about the piss poor public education that children in many cities receive. I think maybe we need to flip that around and worry less about whether Jim Bob is learning from conservapedia.

[john9blue]

i'm glad that nobody in this thread thus far has actually attempted to defend the conservapedia material itself

i'm not in favor of shutting down the site or anything, but damn there is a lot of stupid shit on that website... an occasional harsh truth, but mostly shit

[Woodruff]

That seems like a significant amount of harm to me. It seems to me that if we don't care about what they learn, then we don't care about what they learn. We can't excuse homeschooling from that if we're not going to excuse public education from it.

I will refer you to Doc Brown's posts. Essentially, would you rather be a home schooled child who is brainwashed by conservapedia or a student of the Camden public school system? Which education would be best in helping you succeed in life?

Why is it an either/or question? I don't understand that. Both should be held to high standards. That's my point.

If the first group of people is at 80% effectiveness and the second group of people, of whom there are many, many, many more, is at 20% effectiveness, it becomes an either/or proposition. It's funny that I've heard more news stories ad blogs and commentary about home schooled children and their "lack of education" than I have about the piss poor public education that children in many cities receive. I think maybe we need to flip that around and worry less about whether Jim Bob is learning from conservapedia.

Maybe I'm admittedly a bit sensitive to it (for obvious reasons), but I'm definitely not hearing more people in the media nor the internet whine about homeschooling than I am public education.

i'm glad that nobody in this thread thus far has actually attempted to defend the conservapedia material itself

i'm not in favor of shutting down the site or anything, but damn there is a lot of stupid shit on that website... an occasional harsh truth, but mostly shit

Quite frightening, really. And agreed on the first part.

[2dimes]

I've been reading bit's of this website and it's utter lunacy. Phatscotty and NS's viewpoints are warped and the two them are clinically insane.

I can't help but think somewhere on the web a very similar discription was used for this forum.

[Army of GOD]

The Denver Broncos page hasn't been updated since 2009.

If I edit it, will you guys judge me? you know...for taking part on the website.

[john9blue]

if your edits are going to be what i think they are, then i'm sure the conservapedia community will accept them with open arms