the longest thread, thread - Occasionally NSFW

[muy_thaiguy]

Mastercard and Visa as well.

[DoomYoshi]

So I found the Stork plant where I came from. Explains why I am messed up. As you can see, Globalization made most of the workers leave:

[Quirk]

[AndyDufresne]

So, I wish it was snowing or raining. But it looks pretty uneventful outside today. **Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[AndyDufresne]

I don't want to clog the Video Game topic, so I'm going to use this topic for updates to a Grand Strategy PC game I picked up recently:

Update 1

So I purchased Crusader Kings II, plus some DLC that opens up Islamic empires for play as well. I've never really played an immense grand-strategy game, but I've been liking it quite a bit so far.

In the game I have going, I am the King of Scotland (about 17 years old, this is the 3rd king I've had control of), and the year is about 1100. England is in disarray because of viking invasions and squabbling among dukes and counts, and Ireland is segmented into independent counties.

So they both look ripe for expansion, if I can sure up some of my internal politics, since some of my vassals are revolting either to place an older dude on the throne or to forge an independent duchy for themselves. But I've put down their rebellions pretty well...but some alliances I've made with a few Spanish Kings aren't going so well, they want to see me assassinated I think, according to my spy master.

Did I mention I've had a bit of a falling out with the Catholic church as well? They liked my predecessors reasonably well, but my envoy to the Pope isn't doing very well ingratiating himself and our kingdom with the papacy, and of course, I've changed the laws to Free Investiture so I can install Bishops and Archbishops, instead of having Rome choose 'em. So, I decided to take matters into my own hands. I elevated my court chaplain to AntiPope status, and he openly contested the legitimacy of the Pope in Rome. But he ended up being a Cathar Heretic, so I just threw him in jail to rot, in hopes of smoothing things over with the Pope. Maybe I'll go on a crusade or something to make him feel better.

Pretty fun sandboxey game so far, and I've only been playing for like 40 game years, and I've got another 300 some years ahead of me.

Update 2

Here's an update. The Church in Rome still hates me, because of the whole AntiPope thing. My relations with other Catholic nations has also taken a hit as well. However, on the homefront, all my rebellions were put down and my Scottish King, who has a few notable traits like "Ugly, stutter, maimed, and brilliant strategist" (go figure) was leading a charge across the Sea of Gallway in the Ulster county of Ireland to claim it under his crown. Unfortunately, after sieging a city, he became ill and died! (We did, however, take over the domain for our kingdom).

Which wasn't so good, since his eldest son was 6 at the time, and a weak child on the throne doesn't bode well. I now transition to playing as my 6 year old son...and my uncle (so the king's brother) takes the opportunity to usurp the crown from me in a civil war with some other vassals and counts. Try as I did, even with a large contingent of Breton mercenaries, I lost the civil war. He did not throw me in jail though, perhaps out of compassion to his kin. So slowly, as I grew older I reinforced my garrison and personal army levies, until I was old enough to lead a battle. Like my father, I was an ugly, diligent, warrior, and still a Duke who owned a few counties. Another uncle of mine, who still had a good opinion of me, was vying for the throne himself, so I threw all my weight and armies behind his faction, and we started a civil war to put him on the throne (he had less children for me to eventually assassinate, was my thinking, so I could ascend to throne eventually again).

Our civil war successful, and my other uncle....King Macbeth, was now King of Scotland. Since I was an excellent warrior, and an initial backer of his faction, he gave me the Marshal position on his Council, where I could get stronger and keep close to him and improve his opinion of me in his wars with England. I plotted with some other vassals and counts to kill his son, so I would be the next in line of succession. And things were going so well...until a very powerful, but problematic drunkard, who I invited to my plot spilled the beans. The King and his vassals have lost their respect for me. And there I ended for now.

Pretty sure my next plans are, since everything is out in the open about the assassination plot, is to both try to assassinate the king fast with a somewhat haphazard-low chance attempt, and then commit to civil war since my armies are pretty strong, my prestige is up, my coffers are full, and I've been slowly improving relations with the Danes across the sea, in hopes they'll support my effort.

**Munches on a banana while carefully weighing his options.**


--Andy

[muy_thaiguy]

Maybe an all-out blitz on the King in his stronghold if your close enough? Attack fast, hard, and with ferocity, because you do not want to chance him building up his forces and allies and meeting you on even ground.

But it sounds a lot like Medieval 2 Total War, but with more emphasis on individual characters and politics rather than just war and peace.

[AndyDufresne]

Maybe an all-out blitz on the King in his stronghold if your close enough? Attack fast, hard, and with ferocity, because you do not want to chance him building up his forces and allies and meeting you on even ground.

But it sounds a lot like Medieval 2 Total War, but with more emphasis on individual characters and politics rather than just war and peace.

I'll probably try something like this, at least with overwhelming force and speed. He moved his capital from the old capital area (since our original capital is part of the Duchy I rule), to far in the North, so he'll see me coming. But like I mentioned, my coffers are full and I am going to likely hire some Bretons and Irish mercenaries to supplement my Scottish levies.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[Dukasaur]

I absolutely love Crusader Kings!

[AndyDufresne]

I absolutely love Crusader Kings!

The first or the second? I never played the first, but I've been playing he CK2 and it is pretty rocking.

**Munches on a banana**

Whenever my Scottish game ends, I want to play as a Spanish King, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under my crown...and fight off the Islamic hordes taking root in the southern peninsula. Or maybe I'll be the Islamic hordes, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under that crown!


--Andy

[Gillipig]

I absolutely love Crusader Kings!

The first or the second? I never played the first, but I've been playing he CK2 and it is pretty rocking.

**Munches on a banana**

Whenever my Scottish game ends, I want to play as a Spanish King, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under my crown...and fight off the Islamic hordes taking root in the southern peninsula. Or maybe I'll be the Islamic hordes, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under that crown!


--Andy

Take it easy now, you can't do it all . Where does the map end? Can you seize land in India for example? Or central Africa?

[Dukasaur]

I absolutely love Crusader Kings!

The first or the second? I never played the first, but I've been playing he CK2 and it is pretty rocking.

**Munches on a banana**

Whenever my Scottish game ends, I want to play as a Spanish King, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under my crown...and fight off the Islamic hordes taking root in the southern peninsula. Or maybe I'll be the Islamic hordes, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under that crown!


--Andy

The first. Although, the basic concept hasn't changed much since they released CKII.

I played it enough that I've conquered the world as pretty much everyone, although my favourite starting points were Duchy of Poitou, Duchy of Bohemia, and Duchy of Novgorod. I always preferred to start as a Duke rather than taking a Kingdom at the beginning. It lets you get your advisors and your marriages sorted out while you're at a manageable size, before you make a play for overthrowing the king. Starting as the king you pretty much inherit the big mess that your king had historically, and you have to rush into battle with a disloyal Marshal and a dummy as Chancellor and whatnot.

[AndyDufresne]

I absolutely love Crusader Kings!

The first or the second? I never played the first, but I've been playing he CK2 and it is pretty rocking.

**Munches on a banana**

Whenever my Scottish game ends, I want to play as a Spanish King, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under my crown...and fight off the Islamic hordes taking root in the southern peninsula. Or maybe I'll be the Islamic hordes, and try to unite the Iberian peninsula under that crown!


--Andy

Take it easy now, you can't do it all . Where does the map end? Can you seize land in India for example? Or central Africa?

Here is the extent of map. You can zoom down to the county level.

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[Gillipig]

You're making me want to play this game badly Andy. I was able to run Skyrim on on highest quality graphics so I know my graphic card will be able to run this game.

[2dimes]

Watch for the Banana boat.

[AndyDufresne]

You're making me want to play this game badly Andy. I was able to run Skyrim on on highest quality graphics so I know my graphic card will be able to run this game.

Yeah, I run Skyrim on my laptop and this game gives me no issues. Really, watching some Australian dude play it on youtube, and talk about his actions and strategy (or lackthereof), was what sold me. But the sort of roleplaying aspect you can get into is pretty fun and I think that makes more a more in depth game I'll stick to longer. I thought the game might be more like say a Real Time Strategy in terms of roleplaying (I.e. Age of Empires / Star Craft ) ...where I don't get into it, and just play. But it is kind of fun to embody the character you get to be.

Like I mentioned, one of my Kings gave birth to a stuttering, weak, malformed, and ugly (those are all actual "character traits" that affect various attribute in the game essentially) heir, and it was fun turn him into a brilliant strategist who became stronger (and more ruthless) in order to "earn respect" he couldn't otherwise achieved maybe. And it is fun to see an "Ugly" trait passed down the hereditary line. Ha. There is a pretty big sandbox storyline, which is cool.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[muy_thaiguy]

Watched a couple vids of it, and thought the RP and political intrigue of this game, combined with the Total War series battle gameplat would be an awesome combo.

[DoomYoshi]

Watched a couple vids of it, and thought the RP and political intrigue of this game, combined with the Total War series battle gameplat would be an awesome combo.

[Quirk]

BPotW

[AndyDufresne]

I don't want to clog the Video Game topic, so I'm going to use this topic for updates to a Grand Strategy PC game I picked up recently:

Update 1

So I purchased Crusader Kings II, plus some DLC that opens up Islamic empires for play as well. I've never really played an immense grand-strategy game, but I've been liking it quite a bit so far.

In the game I have going, I am the King of Scotland (about 17 years old, this is the 3rd king I've had control of), and the year is about 1100. England is in disarray because of viking invasions and squabbling among dukes and counts, and Ireland is segmented into independent counties.

So they both look ripe for expansion, if I can sure up some of my internal politics, since some of my vassals are revolting either to place an older dude on the throne or to forge an independent duchy for themselves. But I've put down their rebellions pretty well...but some alliances I've made with a few Spanish Kings aren't going so well, they want to see me assassinated I think, according to my spy master.

Did I mention I've had a bit of a falling out with the Catholic church as well? They liked my predecessors reasonably well, but my envoy to the Pope isn't doing very well ingratiating himself and our kingdom with the papacy, and of course, I've changed the laws to Free Investiture so I can install Bishops and Archbishops, instead of having Rome choose 'em. So, I decided to take matters into my own hands. I elevated my court chaplain to AntiPope status, and he openly contested the legitimacy of the Pope in Rome. But he ended up being a Cathar Heretic, so I just threw him in jail to rot, in hopes of smoothing things over with the Pope. Maybe I'll go on a crusade or something to make him feel better.

Pretty fun sandboxey game so far, and I've only been playing for like 40 game years, and I've got another 300 some years ahead of me.

Update 2

Here's an update. The Church in Rome still hates me, because of the whole AntiPope thing. My relations with other Catholic nations has also taken a hit as well. However, on the homefront, all my rebellions were put down and my Scottish King, who has a few notable traits like "Ugly, stutter, maimed, and brilliant strategist" (go figure) was leading a charge across the Sea of Gallway in the Ulster county of Ireland to claim it under his crown. Unfortunately, after sieging a city, he became ill and died! (We did, however, take over the domain for our kingdom).

Which wasn't so good, since his eldest son was 6 at the time, and a weak child on the throne doesn't bode well. I now transition to playing as my 6 year old son...and my uncle (so the king's brother) takes the opportunity to usurp the crown from me in a civil war with some other vassals and counts. Try as I did, even with a large contingent of Breton mercenaries, I lost the civil war. He did not throw me in jail though, perhaps out of compassion to his kin. So slowly, as I grew older I reinforced my garrison and personal army levies, until I was old enough to lead a battle. Like my father, I was an ugly, diligent, warrior, and still a Duke who owned a few counties. Another uncle of mine, who still had a good opinion of me, was vying for the throne himself, so I threw all my weight and armies behind his faction, and we started a civil war to put him on the throne (he had less children for me to eventually assassinate, was my thinking, so I could ascend to throne eventually again).

Our civil war successful, and my other uncle....King Macbeth, was now King of Scotland. Since I was an excellent warrior, and an initial backer of his faction, he gave me the Marshal position on his Council, where I could get stronger and keep close to him and improve his opinion of me in his wars with England. I plotted with some other vassals and counts to kill his son, so I would be the next in line of succession. And things were going so well...until a very powerful, but problematic drunkard, who I invited to my plot spilled the beans. The King and his vassals have lost their respect for me. And there I ended for now.

Pretty sure my next plans are, since everything is out in the open about the assassination plot, is to both try to assassinate the king fast with a somewhat haphazard-low chance attempt, and then commit to civil war since my armies are pretty strong, my prestige is up, my coffers are full, and I've been slowly improving relations with the Danes across the sea, in hopes they'll support my effort.

**Munches on a banana while carefully weighing his options.**

The succession crisis has ended. Macbeth was overthrown by my duke, the ugly and strong Gerlach. He could not withstand my personal levies, in addition to a nice band of Saxon mercenaries I hired as well. Shortly thereafter, my king led an expedition deeper into Ireland. My father claimed Ulster under his crown previously, and I was able to claim 3 additional counties in Ireland, with some gracious help from the Danes who I've been fostering good relations with...so now our kingdom extends to 1/3 or so the island.

Now back on the throne, my wife has been pumping out the children (I think I have 7 children now), and my eldest son is becoming a terrific warrior and steward, so he'll end up being a good king. I gave him some of the newly conquered lands in Ireland. My wife also gave birth to a daughter with a "dwarf" trait, but I've been personally educating her and I am turning her into a brilliant diplomat. I'm not quite up on the strategy for preventing further succession crises, so I married matrilineally off my other sons to go live with another kingdom's court (which isn't a great thing, since they leave my court, and essentially give up their heritage). But at least it will work.

I'm continuing to foster relations with the Frankish and Danish kings, since eventually I'd like to take over the entire British Isles, but England will be the toughest, so hopefully I'll be able to rope in my allies into the eventual battle. I'm also hoping to go on a few crusades soon.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[Gillipig]

Couldn't help it. I got the game now too! Haven't played much but I've learned one or two things already.
#1:
Don't proclaim a holy war against pagan tribes unless you want to fight them for years!! I made that misstake and it turned out to be my demise.
I started as Sweden (although by all rights there shouldn't even be a country like that at 1066.) In the beginning I had to fend off my brother in law who proclaimed me a pretender and started a civil war. No doubt he felt encouraged by me catching a mortal disease (can't remember which). Anyway I captured the pagan believing infidel and executed him, all his bannermen layed down their weapons because they were now sworn to my wife who was his sister. She didn't seem to mind me killing him at all actually. So that went well but unfortunately I had early on made the misstake of starting a holy war aginst livonia, or the islands outside of livonia that is. I took the islands swiftly but had to defend them for years from endless attacks. Meanwhile my mortally dangerous disease finally lingered off. Shortly after getting well I cheated on my queen wife with a norwegian princess I had married to my heir son. She later gave birth to a son who would be my sons first born if he had fathered him that is. Luckily the stunted fool thought the son was his and didn't suspect me at all. I also managed to make my Queen wife at the high age of 37 pregnant, with a daughter, which gives me 5 children in total,or 6 if you count the baby I made with the norwegian princess.
The pointless holy war I started had cost me more than I could afford, I raised the taxes but the peasants rebelled in city after city, and I had to recall the few troops I had. That was when I thought, -oh shit and saved and quit the game. Do I need to say it was fun?
I'm sort of thinking I should've attacked Iceland instead, If I marry my heir son to a norwegian princess Norway won't stand up for Iceland and the Icelanders can't put up with much of a fight themselves (I hope).
I really don't want to attack either Denmark or Norway because I don't have the numbers, but I need more land, and Iceland is a great outpost to launch attacks on Ireland from. I can't attack the pagans although that's what i would like to do. There's so many regions in finland, balticum and northern modern sweden I would like to take but if I proclaim a holy war on them they join forces. They are very weak by themselves but when they all stand together, they have much more numbers than I do.

[AndyDufresne]

Gili's long post about loving the game.

I'm glad I convinced you, ha. I think Iceland seems to be a natural expansion point for Norway. In my game, it was a Norwegian outpost for quite a while, before it became and independent duchy of Iceland I think.

For the holy wars, I haven't went on any yet, but I have four pieces of information I can pass on:

Spoiler

#1. Sooner or later, if it hasn't already happened in your game, "Holy Order," will be made available by the Pope. They are essentially mercenaries that you buy with piety, and have no ongoing monthly maintenance cost (like a regular merc has 'x' amount I have to pay monthly to keep them fighting for me and not attacking me if they don't get paid). Holy Orders only attack heathens though---so Pagans and Muslims (you can't use them to fight their Catholic brothers...and I think Orthodox are included in that, but I am not sure. I am also not sure about Catholic/Orthodox heresies either). So you might want to wait until these troops can be recruited!

#2. If you use a different casus belli, other than holy war...i.e. your chancellor fabricated claims, the pagans might be less likely to all band together against you, since you aren't declaring a holy war on all of them. But fabricating claims takes a few years usually, and much longer if you have a weak chancellor, and you can only put him in 1 county, so that is a drawback as well.

#3. Foster allies through your marriages, and invite them to your wars. If they join, and actually send troops and don't just join to "save your face" from declining outright, they can be pretty helpful.

#4. One of the ways you can display the map is via "Diplomatic Relations." For non pagans at least, I am pretty sure you can see for instance which counties have alliances with other counties. If it works the same way for pagans, you could see the pagan alliances, and maybe if they aren't all allied together, you could pick off he weak ones with fabricated claim wars. But this is speculation, since I haven't experienced this stuff yet.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[Gillipig]

I've learned more about the game now and it seems I have zero percent chance of taking Iceland unless I hold Norway first. I can attack Norway because I have de jure claims on bohuslän, and norway can attack iceland because they have de jure claim on Iceland. But I'm not planning on attack Norway anytime soon. I'm married to a norwegian princess, who happens to be the oldest child of her father, so there's a small chance I might even inherit Norway through marriage. That would be one hell of a bonus lol. Makes me want to send an assassin into norway and kill her brothers. I just found out I had de jure claims on most of modern sweden. So I can go beserk on those areas. If I want to attack Finland however, I need to proclaim a holy war on finland, that is not something I'm looking forward to.
Denmark have been successful in their holy wars against lithuania, they have more land there than in their homeland. Not sure what I should attack now, the only de jure claims I have is on Norway and I don't really like holy wars. But if I get some holy soldiers who require no pay, I just might . I've played 12 years now. How many years have you played?

[AndyDufresne]

I've been playing for about 100 game years I think. Gerlach, my King who became a Duke and then became a King again, lived until he was about 70, which made his heir pretty angry I think, ha. He reigned for nearly 50 years I think. Unfortunately, the vassals don't quite like his heir, my new king, and they are revolting. But internal revolts are more annoying, since I can usually put them down.

But...Norway took the opportunity to attack me during internal struggles, since they own all of the England, except a piece of land one my Duke's usurped on his own, and they'd like that back. Norway has the third largest army, so I'm getting crushed pretty handedly, even with 2 bands of mercenaries. So I'm probably going to have to surrender the claim and take the prestige hit. This will the first war I've had to surrender in.

On the Bright side, I own half of Ireland.

**Munches on a banana**


--Andy

[Gillipig]

My wars have gone well!! The republic of Gotland has expanded my kingdom into Lithuania and I can make de jure claim down there now. Meanwhile one of my dukes usurped a neighboring part of Norway without conflict. The King of Norway hates me of course now but he has too many rebellions to deal with to pose any threat to me, if I attack them I might unifie them and I don't want to do that. Denmark has been claimed by a French prince, this lead to a civil war in Denmark and somehow the King of France is now I jail resulting in a civil war in France for the crown. I have been successfull in two holy wars, the holy war against Karelia and the holy war against Finland. I now own a large chunk of modern finland as well as most of karelia.

The glorious Kingdom of Sweden is expanding rapidly!! I have more than doubled it's initial size.
I think Sweden is one of the easiest places to start from. You know how there's a difficulty meter in the beginning of the game, when you choose where you want to start from. well Sweden was the easiest place I could find, and also the place I most wanted to start from . Suited me well for a first game.

[AndyDufresne]

The glorious Kingdom of Sweden is expanding rapidly!! I have more than doubled it's initial size.
I think Sweden is one of the easiest places to start from. You know how there's a difficulty meter in the beginning of the game, when you choose where you want to start from. well Sweden was the easiest place I could find, and also the place I most wanted to start from . Suited me well for a first game.

Haha, mhmm. Scotland was on the easier side of the halfway mark as well.

On a bright note, I baked a chocolate cake for VDay, yesterday. **Munches on a banana**


-Andy