Kiz Mini Ryder Cup Dubs [8/8] FINISHED

[The Pom]

Pom singles
Supermax - none, chained, fog
Napoleonic - none,chained, fog
Waterloo - none, chained, fog

Vid Singles
Poker Club - none, chained, fog
Knights - none, chained, fog
Rail USA - none, chained, fog

Doubles
Feudal War - escalating, chained, foggy
Circus Maximus - escalating, chained, sunny
Trafalgar - none, chained, fog
Pearl Harbour, escalating, chained, sunny

[mcshanester29]

MC29 Singles:
Battle for Iraq - nuclear, chained, fog, trench
Celtic Nations - flat, chained, fog
Eurasia - flat, chained, sunny

Andyf23 Singles:
King's Court - ns, chained, fog
AOR2 - ns, chained, Fog
Ireland, ns, chained, trench

Dubs:
Berlin 1961 - ns, chained, fog
Austerlitz, ns, chained, fog, trench
Arms Race - ns, chained, fog
Europe 1914 - ns, chained fog

[kizkiz]

1st round draw made.
All teams pm'd to make their away picks

[t4mcr53s2]

t4mcr53s2 for Wales, age of merchants and Madagascar
slytown for clandemonium monsters and AYBABTU
12 hour fog rule, as per kizkiz

[crispybits]

Excellent, I get to beat slytown 13 times

[Chewie1]

mint-murray

broke the 12 hour fog rule [game]12841291[/game] whats the punishment?

cc

also broke the 12 hour fog rule [game]12841287[/game]

[notyou2]

c c also broke the 12 hour courtesy rule [game]12841307[/game]

[kizkiz]

Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

[kizkiz]

All first round games have been sent out now
three teams failed to nominate their away matches, so were allocated at random

[slytown]

Excellent, I get to beat slytown 13 times

uh oh

[Chewie1]

Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

[kizkiz]

Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

the fog rule is a courtesy rule. At the end of the day it sometimes puts you at a slight tactical disadvantage if not adhered to, rather than full on cheating
He claims not to have known what the rule meant and rectified his other mistake.
I'm using a bit of discretion rather than immediately ruling, that's all

[notyou2]

Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

the fog rule is a courtesy rule. At the end of the day it sometimes puts you at a slight tactical disadvantage if not adhered to, rather than full on cheating
He claims not to have known what the rule meant and rectified his other mistake.
I'm using a bit of discretion rather than immediately ruling, that's all

In other tournaments with the rule, I have seen the rule posted in the tourny title and more than once that has saved me from breaking it.

[Chewie1]

as I said I dont approve of the 12 hour courtesy rule but it should be black or white.

You break the rule you forfeit the game or you don't have the rule.

[notyou2]

[game]12841307[/game] Even though c c posted what he did, it still doesn't tell me he had OZ until his next turn and I see he had the bonus.

They broke the rules. It is not a difficult concept to understand.

[notyou2]

Broke the rule in this one too. [game]12841259[/game]. Took 3 lands, but most importantly, we don't see what those 3 lands touched.

[notyou2]

...and another [game]12841258[/game]

[kizkiz]

Right, far too many rule breaks. I shall be deducting points

[Vid_FISO]

more good news for kiz
[game]12841473[/game]

[kizkiz]

Just going through the scores and rule breaks for the chewie/notyou2 vs mint murray/CC
Vanilla score was 12-8 to mint/cc

We have 12 hour rule breaks in
route 66 - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
third crusade - rule breakers lost game anyway
labyrinth - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
classic - match forfeited by mint/cc for breaking 12 hour rule and not clearly rectifying it.

So revised score is 11-9 - winners still mint murray/CC

[Chewie1]

Just going through the scores and rule breaks for the chewie/notyou2 vs mint murray/CC
Vanilla score was 12-8 to mint/cc

We have 12 hour rule breaks in
route 66 - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
third crusade - rule breakers lost game anyway
labyrinth - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
classic - match forfeited by mint/cc for breaking 12 hour rule and not clearly rectifying it.

So revised score is 11-9 - winners still mint murray/CC

Firstly congratulations to mint and cc for beating us.
But just to play devils advocate Kiz, this is just an observation and I'm not asking for the results to be overturned as i'm really not bothered but some people would be.
In route 66 and labyrinth they broke the rules and the result stands! So whats the point of the 12 hour fog rule. Its why I think the 12 hour fog rule is meaningless as in those 2 games the fact remains it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the game, but if this had been a clan war involving say Kort and AFOS they would (possibly) demand that the 2 games be forfeited (Or replayed) because rules are rules.
Basically outlines should be made in OP for stages of punishment.
Like I say just an observation as I think this is your first tourney, and something you could bear in mind for future ones.

Thanks for hosting its a good idea for a tourney and i enjoyed the first round.

Good luck to those of you who made it through.

[kizkiz]

Chewie, i agree that i could have made it clearer, which has been rectified in round 2.
Not sure why the breaks that didn't do anything matter though? You want them to post "I took a territ you can't see from a territ you can't see"?
I regularly take a turn early with 12 hour rule if there's no point waiting, in both clan and tourneys. Never been an issue
I can see where you're coming from, and i'll bear it in mind for future tourneys.
thanks for playing

[mint-murray]

Okay firstly I have given our opponents 5 rating on the games - and will not lower myself and change this, just because Chewie is incessantly whingeing.

As for 12 hour fog rule, I am aware of this due to Clan Games - however I was unaware that this rule was in place in this tournament and do not believe any reminder was sent out prior to tournament starting (although I may be wrong on this).
Game play is game play - and it really shouldn't make any difference in long wrong, they did not use BOB - so you play on instinct and make moves based on what makes sense - not the fact someone took a turn when only 8 hours and 26 minutes had elapsed.
As for applying punishment - is it acceptable that this was applied in retrospect ???: when no action was stated at start of tournament. If it was such an issue why did they not ask for games to be restarted rather than having an expectation they would win games through default and not their actual performance.

Well it would appear that even with punishments applied we are winners - I am sure Chewie is still annoyed that we have not been forcefully ejected from the tournament, VVV will oblige with a Clan War if vengeance and closure is required. With or without 12 hour fog rule, he can decide.

[kizkiz]

12 hour fog rule was in place prior to start of tournament and was discussed in this thread also.
Anyway, it's in the headers for the next round, so no excuses

[mint-murray]

No worries.