Football (real)

[squeaks_is_mine]

English football is either rigged or very uncompetitive at the highest level. I'm not sure if there is a salary cap but Man U wins way too much. 12 out of 20 years? That type of domination is too boring. And out of the 8 years they weren't champs they never finished below 3rd. What kind of league has 20 teams and is raped yearly by one team? Past 7 years 5 Championships, 2 runner-ups please I'll pay attention to soccer outside of the world cup when they become more competitive. No team in any sport in the States has such a weak talent pool spread across the league.

[rishaed]

Bundesliga- Bayern is never under the top 3..... And thats if they aren't #1.
That being said, I wasn't trolling Betiko, its a fact. Never did get much into Schalke though. Coupla St. Pauli fans around however.

[betiko]

English football is either rigged or very uncompetitive at the highest level. I'm not sure if there is a salary cap but Man U wins way too much. 12 out of 20 years? That type of domination is too boring. And out of the 8 years they weren't champs they never finished below 3rd. What kind of league has 20 teams and is raped yearly by one team? Past 7 years 5 Championships, 2 runner-ups please I'll pay attention to soccer outside of the world cup when they become more competitive. No team in any sport in the States has such a weak talent pool spread across the league.

you got other leagues, the english one is just the most aired in the US; and mostly, you got the champion's league that for a non european is the best thing to watch. The best level of football is played there, with all the best players and clubs in the world. And no one ever wins it 2 years straigh since.. forever! (real madrid early 2000s maybe?).

Americans are just communists in terms of sports.

[betiko]

I'm not averse to trolling under most circumstances, but I have been sternly warned away from having anything to do with Schalke 04. Wearing a Bayern Munich jersey around the girlfriend's family would be a mean joke but they might see the funny side. Wearing a Schalke jersey would be grounds for immediate, violent execution. There are lines I am simply not ballsy enough to cross, and that's one of 'em.

Booo! You are a schalke fan and i know that. I also know who wears the pants in your couple!

So is lewandowski leaving for the bayern this summer or not? What does your "family" think of aubameyang? I think it was a very good pick and he ll do great there.

what s goin on with monaco m8 ?



what s it, cavani, falcao, hulk ? where is it monaco heading to ?

Hulk is a rumour, he didn't sign for monaco (yet?) Cavani signed for PSG not for monaco!!

Major trolling from PSG to barcelona: They wanted Thiago Silva really bad and in case it didn't work they would've gone for Marquinhos. Well then after saying over and over that Silva is not for sale, they just bought Marquinhos to the AS Roma for 31M€ so now Barça has nowhere to go to.. David Luiz from Chelsea isn't going anywhere either!

but here's what Monaco bought so far with the prices in M€: Falcao (Atletico, 60), James Rodriguez (Porto, 45), Moutinho (Porto, 25), Toulalan (malaga, 5), Abidal (Barça, free), Carvalho (real madrid, free), fabinho (real madrid loan).

They will be fighting for the champion's league but will be far from PSG in my opinion, the PSG reall has a great team now and can aim for the champion's league semifinals I'd say.

[betiko]

Bundesliga- Bayern is never under the top 3..... And thats if they aren't #1.
That being said, I wasn't trolling Betiko, its a fact. Never did get much into Schalke though. Coupla St. Pauli fans around however.

sorry rich missunderstanding here; wasn't talking to you but to connor obviously, and didn't call him a troll,I suggested that he becomes one!

st pauli is a very funny club!

[squeaks_is_mine]

English football is either rigged or very uncompetitive at the highest level. I'm not sure if there is a salary cap but Man U wins way too much. 12 out of 20 years? That type of domination is too boring. And out of the 8 years they weren't champs they never finished below 3rd. What kind of league has 20 teams and is raped yearly by one team? Past 7 years 5 Championships, 2 runner-ups please I'll pay attention to soccer outside of the world cup when they become more competitive. No team in any sport in the States has such a weak talent pool spread across the league.

you got other leagues, the english one is just the most aired in the US; and mostly, you got the champion's league that for a non european is the best thing to watch. The best level of football is played there, with all the best players and clubs in the world. And no one ever wins it 2 years straigh since.. forever! (real madrid early 2000s maybe?).

Americans are just communists in terms of sports.

Yes but even still isn't it the same teams in the Champions League every year? Out of the past 6 years Manchester United or Bayern Munich has been in the finals.

And how are we communists in sports?

[waauw]

English football is either rigged or very uncompetitive at the highest level. I'm not sure if there is a salary cap but Man U wins way too much. 12 out of 20 years? That type of domination is too boring. And out of the 8 years they weren't champs they never finished below 3rd. What kind of league has 20 teams and is raped yearly by one team? Past 7 years 5 Championships, 2 runner-ups please I'll pay attention to soccer outside of the world cup when they become more competitive. No team in any sport in the States has such a weak talent pool spread across the league.

you got other leagues, the english one is just the most aired in the US; and mostly, you got the champion's league that for a non european is the best thing to watch. The best level of football is played there, with all the best players and clubs in the world. And no one ever wins it 2 years straigh since.. forever! (real madrid early 2000s maybe?).

Americans are just communists in terms of sports.

Yes but even still isn't it the same teams in the Champions League every year? Out of the past 6 years Manchester United or Bayern Munich has been in the finals.

And how are we communists in sports?

The top teams do make it almost always but when it comes to the remnant spots they are often played by many different teams.
Also at least in soccer we don't have entire teams being sold to other cities.

And I don't see why it's such a problem when a team is dominating. It makes the enjoyment of someone beating them all the more fun. FC Barcelona was seen as almost unbeatable and when they got overclassed by Bayern Munich the enjoyment of it was enormous.
The higher the expectations, the bigger the joy with surprising results.

FYI, European football is based on traditions. This is why it are often the same teams who win the championship. They have the most fans and are thus the most interesting teams to invest in. It is very hard for a team with very little tradition to gain any popularity. For example in my own country there was a team called "Westerlo" and for about 20 years it played in our first division with all the surrounding teams going back to 2nd and 3rd division, but still it didn't gain much popularity. Because people clung onto the past glories of these other teams.

[GreecePwns]

There is nothing communist about billionaires working together to set wage limits for millionaires. It's a cartel, if anything.

Also, I find most domestic leagues in Europe boring, most of them are over even before the season begins in reality, and sometimes a month before the season is over mathematically. I know playoffs make no sense, but salary caps (at least ones which are set high enough to only to keep from one or two teams from dominating rather than one that enforces complete equality) do make sense.

[crispybits]

How do you build a salary cap system across multiple leagues in multiple countries all with different tax, employment and commercial laws? You would need every football association on the planet to agree to the system, and it would be such a complicated system so full of loopholes that any rich guy with a decent accountant/lawyer could still pretty much do whatever they want.

American sports only get away with it because nobody outside of America (with the odd Candian/Mexican exception) gives a crap about them.

[GreecePwns]

How do you build a salary cap system across multiple leagues in multiple countries all with different tax, employment and commercial laws? You would need every football association on the planet to agree to the system, and it would be such a complicated system so full of loopholes that any rich guy with a decent accountant/lawyer could still pretty much do whatever they want.

American sports only get away with it because nobody outside of America (with the odd Candian/Mexican exception) gives a crap about them.

You can't really create a salary cap across multiple leagues, you're right there. But just like each league has their own roster regulations (foreigner limits, homegrown player minimums, etc.), each league can have its own salary cap. Even then, the current UEFA setup, where leagues are in competition directly to each other through their top teams in the CL and EL and in competition for buying the best talent in the world, makes it an imperative for domestic leagues to allow the top teams to spend freely to uphold the prestige of the league. So setting salary caps in European football is impractical.

That isn't true for MLS. The only league they're being compared to directly is Mexico, the rest of CONCACAF is much worse than MLS. Also, because the talent MLS looks for isn't the world's best, it is much less scarce. Most of the talent in MLS - actually, most of the world, is easily replaceable - so MLS can attempt to be more efficient in its signings. They enforce this philosophy through the salary cap and rules which make bidding wars practically impossible. Big teams are able to purchase stars by having up 3 players not count against the salary cap, but they can't buy titles with 3 players. I think this makes the league more exciting than most domestic leagues.

This approach historically has been necessary for MLS to survive, and they've started taking steps away from it recently. Now instead of just surviving MLS wants to grow to compete with Europe. Because of this, their teams will have to be allowed to spend more freely. However, there will still be some salary restrictions in place to keep teams from dominating the league and keep fans in small cities interested. MLS will never be as good as the top five leagues, but if they can catch up to leagues like the Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Turkey (whereas now I would say they are at mid-table Championship level) then they will have done an amazing job.

[Arama86n]

Was flipping through some channels after work the other day and caught France v England, women EU-championships.
and bugger me; I think I've come up with a phrase I'll be using for the rest of my life, when friends force me to watch games with their so called ""world class" men's football: "I'd rather watch the French womens team play" I'll be saying, and rightly so. Exciting stuff!
Much more than watching my own nation Sweden beat Iceland today 4-0. Same old boring-as-f*ck football that makes me vomit on this sport and want to watch Rugby instead.

But three cheers for the French ladies, football as it should be played, and actually worth watching

[waauw]

Was flipping through some channels after work the other day and caught France v England, women EU-championships.
and bugger me; I think I've come up with a phrase I'll be using for the rest of my life, when friends force me to watch games with their so called ""world class" men's football: "I'd rather watch the French womens team play" I'll be saying, and rightly so. Exciting stuff!
Much more than watching my own nation Sweden beat Iceland today 4-0. Same old boring-as-f*ck football that makes me vomit on this sport and want to watch Rugby instead.

But three cheers for the French ladies, football as it should be played, and actually worth watching

sweden vs iceland is hardly representative. Believe me, all you need is a good generation of footballers to get an entire nation excited. This is what's happening in Belgium right now with our current generation of players. Sweden on the other hand is not in it's best generation at the moment.

How do you build a salary cap system across multiple leagues in multiple countries all with different tax, employment and commercial laws? You would need every football association on the planet to agree to the system, and it would be such a complicated system so full of loopholes that any rich guy with a decent accountant/lawyer could still pretty much do whatever they want.

American sports only get away with it because nobody outside of America (with the odd Candian/Mexican exception) gives a crap about them.

You can't really create a salary cap across multiple leagues, you're right there. But just like each league has their own roster regulations (foreigner limits, homegrown player minimums, etc.), each league can have its own salary cap. Even then, the current UEFA setup, where leagues are in competition directly to each other through their top teams in the CL and EL and in competition for buying the best talent in the world, makes it an imperative for domestic leagues to allow the top teams to spend freely to uphold the prestige of the league. So setting salary caps in European football is impractical.

That isn't true for MLS. The only league they're being compared to directly is Mexico, the rest of CONCACAF is much worse than MLS. Also, because the talent MLS looks for isn't the world's best, it is much less scarce. Most of the talent in MLS - actually, most of the world, is easily replaceable - so MLS can attempt to be more efficient in its signings. They enforce this philosophy through the salary cap and rules which make bidding wars practically impossible. Big teams are able to purchase stars by having up 3 players not count against the salary cap, but they can't buy titles with 3 players. I think this makes the league more exciting than most domestic leagues.

This approach historically has been necessary for MLS to survive, and they've started taking steps away from it recently. Now instead of just surviving MLS wants to grow to compete with Europe. Because of this, their teams will have to be allowed to spend more freely. However, there will still be some salary restrictions in place to keep teams from dominating the league and keep fans in small cities interested. MLS will never be as good as the top five leagues, but if they can catch up to leagues like the Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Turkey (whereas now I would say they are at mid-table Championship level) then they will have done an amazing job.

Actually it is possible to set some international salary cap. The UEFA has no authority on a national level, but when it comes to the champions league and the europaleague, they do have the autority. So something could be done, especially as most big spenders actually aim for the championsleague not just their domestic competitions. Though I have to admit the huge differences in tax policy accross countries makes it quite a difficult subject to agree upon.

[squeaks_is_mine]

My point isn't that a salary cap is a must but it really isn't fun to me to see the same teams dominate a country year after year and the same 3-4 teams dominate a whole Continent I mean I guess its fun if you like monotony, or are a Man U/Bayern/FC fan and if not pray that the billions and notoriety of a club somehow falter for just one year to celebrate to break the continuous traditional soccer rapes. Just not my thing I want to see underdogs, heads being busted, I mean even in American sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey) there are certain domination periods for maybe 2-3 years but it always gives way to the rest of the league and ends in no sport does any team win 5 out of 7 championships (except for the great Michael Jordan in the '90s but I have reason to believe that he was not human). In Europe competitive soccer on a high level is lost it will never be in 50 years the same 10 teams that carry the most notoriety now will then I'm saying that's sad because sports are about competitive fun.

[waauw]

My point isn't that a salary cap is a must but it really isn't fun to me to see the same teams dominate a country year after year and the same 3-4 teams dominate a whole Continent I mean I guess its fun if you like monotony, or are a Man U/Bayern/FC fan and if not pray that the billions and notoriety of a club somehow falter for just one year to celebrate to break the continuous traditional soccer rapes. Just not my thing I want to see underdogs, heads being busted, I mean even in American sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey) there are certain domination periods for maybe 2-3 years but it always gives way to the rest of the league and ends in no sport does any team win 5 out of 7 championships (except for the great Michael Jordan in the '90s but I have reason to believe that he was not human). In Europe competitive soccer on a high level is lost it will never be in 50 years the same 10 teams that carry the most notoriety now will then I'm saying that's sad because sports are about competitive fun.

what are you talking about?
In the past 10 years there have been 8 different winners of the champions league, 8 different winners of the UEFA europa league, 4 different winners of the premier league, 5 different Bundesliga winners

How is this totally dominating? Like you said, some teams have good periods of 2-3 years. In these competitions you'll find out that no club has won more than 3 championships in a row. In all of champions league history no club has even won it twice in a row. Yes it are often the same clubs competing, but it's easier to concentrate on only a few clubs competing for first spot rather than half the competition.

Additionally real football fans don't need their clubs to play outstandingly per sé. Sure ManU fans will get pissed if it takes too long to win the premier league. But most club fans are happy about their teams just ending mid-table. The fun for a fan is not whether a club is able to compete for the championship, but whether they can surpass their teams expectations. It's well known in marketing that not all products have to be terrific, they just have to surpass the expectations.

[Nola_Lifer]

Salary caps will only cement those at the top. When teams can get injections of cash to buy players, they won't be able to because of salary caps. There is already FIFA fairplay rules which dictate how much money a team can spend without neglecting the other side. Selling and balancing books.

[squeaks_is_mine]

How is this totally dominating? Like you said, some teams have good periods of 2-3 years. In these competitions you'll find out that no club has won more than 3 championships in a row. In all of champions league history no club has even won it twice in a row. Yes it are often the same clubs competing, but it's easier to concentrate on only a few clubs competing for first spot rather than half the competition.

Additionally real football fans don't need their clubs to play outstandingly per sé. Sure ManU fans will get pissed if it takes too long to win the premier league. But most club fans are happy about their teams just ending mid-table. The fun for a fan is not whether a club is able to compete for the championship, but whether they can surpass their teams expectations. It's well known in marketing that not all products have to be terrific, they just have to surpass the expectations.

Out of the past 6 years Manchester United or Bayern Munich has been in the finals for the Champions Cup every year and in the Premier League like I said Man U has won 5 of the last 7 and the 2 they didn't they were runner up. This includes the three year run by Man U so I'm not sure about what you were saying that no one ever runs the table in a three peat or dominates. And concentrating on a few teams is better? I don't understand that at all I'm an athlete and I play sports, as well as being an avid fan for my teams, and I never want to or settle to be middle of the pack or the bottom because that's a defeatist mentality, which there should be no place like this in sports. Nor would I ever be ok with my team to settle for just being average otherwise where is the fun rooting for half the games and hoping for miracles year after year? But then again that's my argument in difference between competitiveness in American sports and European soccer, most have to either bandwagon or settle with mediocrity.

[nietzsche]

Salary caps? No thanks, I love my RM.

[GreecePwns]

Here's a nice graph from the Swiss Ramble that displays my point about FFP. The rules for FFP require teams to spend less than 70% of revenues on wages.



Outside of City, the teams which are over this ratio are all small clubs. They will all be forced to slash wages, which will hurt their ability to compete, which will hurt their revenues. Less revenues means less ability to spend, and the cycle continues. FFP is a huge step towards creating a European Super League. It's worse than a system which allows teams to freely decide their budgets.

As for a straight salary cap, here's the same data presented differently:



For argument's sake, let's say no European team, no matter how large or small, could spend more than 125 million pounds on wages. The only teams affected are the big five clubs in England, and a few of the biggest clubs around Europe (edit: Barca, Real and Bayern would be the only teams affected outside of England). They would have to cut some wages, and those players would end up playing for teams like Spurs, Newcastle, etc. The competition would not boil down to the same two or three clubs fighting for first place every year, rather the top 5-6 teams would all have realistic chances of winning it, with the determining factor being skill in managing their players and making the most of their wage budget. The club's capacity to spend still has a determining factor as hardly any clubs could reach 125 million in wages anyway, but it wouldn't allow teams to buy titles outright.

Add in an exemption for homegrown players and you drastically and immediately improve the prospects of your national team 5-10 years ahead. MLS did this exact thing and the US national team is beginning to see academy players rise to the top.

[betiko]

How is this totally dominating? Like you said, some teams have good periods of 2-3 years. In these competitions you'll find out that no club has won more than 3 championships in a row. In all of champions league history no club has even won it twice in a row. Yes it are often the same clubs competing, but it's easier to concentrate on only a few clubs competing for first spot rather than half the competition.

Additionally real football fans don't need their clubs to play outstandingly per sé. Sure ManU fans will get pissed if it takes too long to win the premier league. But most club fans are happy about their teams just ending mid-table. The fun for a fan is not whether a club is able to compete for the championship, but whether they can surpass their teams expectations. It's well known in marketing that not all products have to be terrific, they just have to surpass the expectations.

Out of the past 6 years Manchester United or Bayern Munich has been in the finals for the Champions Cup every year and in the Premier League like I said Man U has won 5 of the last 7 and the 2 they didn't they were runner up. This includes the three year run by Man U so I'm not sure about what you were saying that no one ever runs the table in a three peat or dominates. And concentrating on a few teams is better? I don't understand that at all I'm an athlete and I play sports, as well as being an avid fan for my teams, and I never want to or settle to be middle of the pack or the bottom because that's a defeatist mentality, which there should be no place like this in sports. Nor would I ever be ok with my team to settle for just being average otherwise where is the fun rooting for half the games and hoping for miracles year after year? But then again that's my argument in difference between competitiveness in American sports and European soccer, most have to either bandwagon or settle with mediocrity.

Funny cause you don t even mention barcelona, by far the most dominant team of the past 6 years in europe, nor inter milan or chesea that both won as much Champions leagues as the bayern or united. Out of the 6 last editions you got 5 different winners. How exactly is that boring and too predictable? Why don t you try some betting on european football if you re so sure of the results? In fact, would you bet 1000$ that united will win the premier this year? Cause i m pretty sure this year will be chelsea.
And yes, it s still fun to root for a shit team. Goals are just different. Just like if you have a retarded child, you still love him and push him for imrovements. Good staff in a club can make it change too.

[GreecePwns]

The Champions League is a competition which is a group stage and knockout competition which allows for volatility in the results. Of course you'll see very different winners in that competition. They're evenly matched once you get down to the last 8, basically anyone can win since they're similar talent levels.

Domestic leagues are the complete opposite. For the most part, all but 2-4 teams per league have a shot at winning it from the opening day, and sometimes the title is decided a month or two before the season is over because one team just dominated. A team like Stoke City can only hope to possibly one day reach the Europa League, and that's all they'll be playing for until they find a sugar daddy ownership or get relegated. What is there to look forward in that? The occasional away draw or home win against Man United every 2 or 3 years? Even a team as big as Tottenham will have no shot at the title anytime soon because they simply don't have money to compete, and FFP will simply lock them in their place forever.

UEFA is moving in a very bad direction. We will see a European Super League within the next 10 years once FFP has its way on the small clubs.

[betiko]

The Champions League is a competition which is a group stage and knockout competition which allows for volatility in the results. Of course you'll see very different winners in that competition. They're evenly matched once you get down to the last 8, basically anyone can win since they're similar talent levels.

Domestic leagues are the complete opposite. For the most part, all but 2-4 teams per league have a shot at winning it from the opening day, and sometimes the title is decided a month or two before the season is over because one team just dominated. A team like Stoke City can only hope to possibly one day reach the Europa League, and that's all they'll be playing for until they find a sugar daddy ownership or get relegated. What is there to look forward in that? The occasional away draw or home win against Man United every 2 or 3 years? Even a team as big as Tottenham will have no shot at the title anytime soon because they simply don't have money to compete, and FFP will simply lock them in their place forever.

UEFA is moving in a very bad direction. We will see a European Super League within the next 10 years once FFP has its way on the small clubs.

humm nope. small clubs have way too many loyal fans. the uefa and fifa fight to even things up. platini has been working a lot on that at the UEFA. No one will accept that european superleague to happen. domestic leagues are way too important and have way too much tradition.

Clubs that would join that european superleague will get kicked out of the UEFA and FIFA; their players would not be allowed to play for any FIFA world cup or UEFA eurocup and would be banned from their national teams. there has already been some mutiny of 14 most powerful european clubs plotting together such thing and they know it won't happen.

It's not all about winning, maybe that's a concept that americans don't understand. Stoke city might be mediocre, it's a club that is prett well handled and that does what it can. It's a small ass city, it's a priviledge to be in the premier league, and I've already seen them participating in the europa league. Also I remember the blackburn rovers winning the premiership in the late 90s with no special budget or anything... it was just their year!
In the 2012 season in france we had Montpellier winning the league and no one would ve ever expected that (their first title).
I personally support the Betis in Spain, and you can't imagine how happy I was the year we won the spanish cup or when we qualified for the champion's league. You can't get this kind of joys when you support a big club because you get used to trophies and they lose meaning the more ou win them.

I don't know, take NBA for example. how many NBA finals had the lakers, the spurs or the heat since the 21st century?

In england; how is the general public reacting to the way city and chelsea reached the top? It's not well seen at all because all those clubs are over a century old and they have traditions. Changes are supposed to happen little by little.

United had had a coach for over 30 years and with a whole team "spine" that barely moved. Players like giggs or scholes played over 20 years for him. Most players don't have a career that long. If you got a winning receipe and generate tons of cash it's hard to compete.

when I said that the americans had communist sports I was talking about the draft system. That's something that isn't bad, I kind of like it. but it couldn't be applied to football.

look at formula 1;ecclestone is changing eavery season tons of stuff in terms of car/tires/engine/ team budgets specificities ect to even up as much as possible things so that we don't end up with a dominance like what happened with schumacher during the 2000s. Of course it's boring to have the same team winning over and over again. that's why I hate united, madrid, bayern, ac milan. I've always hated their dominance.

Or for example in rallyes; Sebastien Loeb. this guy is probably the best rallye driver of all times and he's semi retired this season. He won 9 championships straight, this year he isn't participating in the full championship but just in 4 rallyes (and still won them lol). He is french, a reat person, I greatly admire him and have always rooted for him of course: but I'm happy that he retired because this was BORING. you don't get exited anymore when he wins. the guy is just too good and no one can get even close... He went to pike's peak hill climbing race this year for fun and he won, beating the all time record by over a minute (9 minute something vs 8 minutes something). He is just going to move to other disciplines because winning all the time destroys the fun of a competition I couldn't agree more on this.

[waauw]

look at formula 1;ecclestone is changing eavery season tons of stuff in terms of car/tires/engine/ team budgets specificities ect to even up as much as possible things so that we don't end up with a dominance like what happened with schumacher during the 2000s. Of course it's boring to have the same team winning over and over again. that's why I hate united, madrid, bayern, ac milan. I've always hated their dominance.

lol Milan? They don't belong in that row, not anymore anyway.

[squeaks_is_mine]

Funny cause you don t even mention barcelona, by far the most dominant team of the past 6 years in europe, nor inter milan or chesea that both won as much Champions leagues as the bayern or united. Out of the 6 last editions you got 5 different winners. How exactly is that boring and too predictable? Why don t you try some betting on european football if you re so sure of the results? In fact, would you bet 1000$ that united will win the premier this year? Cause i m pretty sure this year will be chelsea.

In the states we only really hear or see (unless you are a soccer fan and you look for it or order it) International Competitions, the Premier League of England which:

Domestic leagues are the complete opposite. For the most part, all but 2-4 teams per league have a shot at winning it from the opening day, and sometimes the title is decided a month or two before the season is over because one team just dominated.

Better explains why we view the competitiveness or lack there of in European Soccer. But even though there are 5 different winners, you still see a cycle of what 5-8 teams throughout the entire continent who even have a shot at it? And even moreso 2-4 teams who are in the Champions Final year after year.

It's not all about winning, maybe that's a concept that americans don't understand. Stoke city might be mediocre, it's a club that is prett well handled and that does what it can. It's a small ass city, it's a priviledge to be in the premier league

So It's a privilege to get a train ran on you year after year? And the Blackburn Rovers story sounds good, sad thing is its the only one in 20 years. And its always about winning, Herm Edwards says it the best "You Play to WIN the GAME!". I mean who plays to lose? There's no fun in accepted defeat.

I don't know, take NBA for example. how many NBA finals had the lakers, the spurs or the heat since the 21st century?

Lakers-6, Spurs-4, Heat-4 in 14 years, and none are perfect in their pursuit to the finals, and the Lakers even saw a few years of not making the post season let alone being dominate, same with the Heat, Spurs have had all 4 spread out over the past 14 years none were ever back to back, and going back from this year the last time was 2007, so a 6 year wait in which they were not dominate in any shape or form.

Europe may as well succumb to a Super league with the top 2-4 teams from the German, English, Spanish, and 1-2 best from any other "competitive" league. And the Domestic Leagues play for their own title and a shot to join the Super League for a year before they get bounced. Otherwise Domestic Leagues will continue to be ground zero for televised rapes.

[nietzsche]

Says on Marca.com (so it's probably 10% truth, 90% smoke) that RM is making a last effort to get Bale. But I'm not so sure anymore if we need him, he's awesome and I'd love to make fun of nagerous but... we have plenty now! Maybe if Higuain leaves another striker in case Benzema gets injured but if we get Bale then we'd need to sell Di Maria or Ozil.

[betiko]

Europe may as well succumb to a Super league with the top 2-4 teams from the German, English, Spanish, and 1-2 best from any other "competitive" league. And the Domestic Leagues play for their own title and a shot to join the Super League for a year before they get bounced. Otherwise Domestic Leagues will continue to be ground zero for televised rapes.

that's what's called champion's league. if for some reason espn or whatever only buys tv rights for the premiership, don't start asking europe to change and create something that has been existing for over 60 years. Ask ESPN to provide you with the champion's league. Out of the last 10 seasons, you have 8 different winners, and barcelona is the only one with several titles (3). All other clubs only won it once. So manchester united that you perceive as completely dominating football is an ilusion from the other side of the pond.

We make the competitions that suit us best here, not foreign markets. The stadiums are filled with people living locally and the TV rights are mostly coming from domestic televisions. A league tells you who is the best in regularity, a cup who can realize the best one time performance.
You guys mix both in US sports, and at the end of the day the league (regular season) has no value. the cup (playoffs) is what counts the most.
For us, the league is what counts the most. a cup is separate, pretty cool to win but no way as prestigious.

I'd be interested to know who finished first in regular season in a US sport and the % that end up winning the title. I personally think that it's unfair to get so little reward for being the best during the whole year. there is just no incentve to watch the regular season of a US sport. just watch playoffs, regular season is completely useless.

ps: oh also I wanted to give you the example of the french league. 10 clubs have won the league in the past 20 years, apart from Lyon that won 7 titles straight in the 2000s (a record in european major leagues to win 7 domestic championships straight) no other team has managed to get back to back titles in over 20 years. This is somehow a sign of weakeness.